Separation of Church and State: Is this still being respected?

[lalakingbisdak]

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OT - We all know we HAVE to pay for the services ( religious rites ) we get from the priests. Now, it would be nice if all priests would just do it out of the goodness of their hearts and people with lesser means won't have to cough up with anything specially if it's a death in the family.
I still believe that the church should be taxed - all churches not just the Catholic ones. It's about time. The gov't's always looking for ways to get more taxes from us, why not the church this time. Di jud na maka pobre sa simbahan kay pwerte nang datu-a sa mga pari. Yes or no ?

YES. Dapat e tax na sila. Sa kadaghan nila ug income per day. Dapat they have to pay taxes!

[istoryador]

It should be recalled that in 2000, when an impeachment complaint was filed against then sitting President Joseph Estrada, this was signed by a priest, Robert Reyes, then the attack dog of Jaime Sin. And there is no denying that the bishops were behind her in a staged “people power” revolt, but there was no objection from Gloria and her coup plotters on such disgraceful behavior of the church leaders.

But now that a bishop files an impeachment complaint against her, she now wants his actions probed? Just who does she think she is?

the question here is why is it right then and wrong now? As we know Glueria was installed with the help of the Catholic Church back in 2001. Her allies never told them to stay out of politics, in fact they even defended the Church establishment against criticism of engaging in politics. They said it was the “moral obligation” of the church to guide their flocks to better leaders. But fast forward to present day, they are engaging the church into a showdown and under the guise of “seperation of church and state”, they try to downplay the role of the church people who woked up from their stupid mistake back then.

[lalakingbisdak]

It should be recalled that in 2000, when an impeachment complaint was filed against then sitting President Joseph Estrada, this was signed by a priest, Robert Reyes, then the attack dog of Jaime Sin. And there is no denying that the bishops were behind her in a staged “people power” revolt, but there was no objection from Gloria and her coup plotters on such disgraceful behavior of the church leaders.

But now that a bishop files an impeachment complaint against her, she now wants his actions probed? Just who does she think she is?

the question here is why is it right then and wrong now? As we know Glueria was installed with the help of the Catholic Church back in 2001. Her allies never told them to stay out of politics, in fact they even defended the Church establishment against criticism of engaging in politics. They said it was the “moral obligation” of the church to guide their flocks to better leaders. But fast forward to present day, they are engaging the church into a showdown and under the guise of “seperation of church and state”, they try to downplay the role of the church people who woked up from their stupid mistake back then.

For your info bai, if this is what the church will do sa ato country, nothing will happen. While other countries are discovering something, we talk on politics, martsa martsa ug impeachment impeachment.

[wanderlust]

It should be recalled that in 2000, when an impeachment complaint was filed against then sitting President Joseph Estrada, this was signed by a priest, Robert Reyes, then the attack dog of Jaime Sin. And there is no denying that the bishops were behind her in a staged “people power” revolt, but there was no objection from Gloria and her coup plotters on such disgraceful behavior of the church leaders.
But now that a bishop files an impeachment complaint against her, she now wants his actions probed? Just who does she think she is?

the question here is why is it right then and wrong now? As we know Glueria was installed with the help of the Catholic Church back in 2001. Her allies never told them to stay out of politics, in fact they even defended the Church establishment against criticism of engaging in politics. They said it was the “moral obligation” of the church to guide their flocks to better leaders. But fast forward to present day, they are engaging the church into a showdown and under the guise of “seperation of church and state”, they try to downplay the role of the church people who woked up from their stupid mistake back then.

Dude, the impeachment complaint for Erap was supported by 115 congressmen, more than 1/3 of the members of the Lower House. The evidence against him was strong. The entire Armed Forces and the PNP withdrew their support from him. The last straw was when he left Malacanang of his own accord. The priests are not the only factor here. Even assuming that GMA was less innocent, it is still not an excuse for them to indiscriminately use their priestly positions now to try to sway the public to their own political bias.

This is not a question of doing to Gloria what she also allegedly did. This is about doing what is right and lawful. In other words, we have to operate on the presumption that GMA at present is the legitimate president no matter what those unproven allegations may suggest.

[grabehbebe]

Palace says relations with CBCP-Church still okay

After criticizing and calling for sanctions against bishops for allegedly meddling in politics, Malacañang said yesterday there is no rift between the Arroyo administration and the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of the Philippines (CBCP) even as it called on critics not to try to divide the Church and the government.

Press Secretary Ignacio Bunye said the Church and the government "are united in pushing for good governance and addressing poverty."

"We appeal to all parties concerned to refrain from wedge-driving by depicting that there is a brewing rift between the CBCP and the administration, where there is none," Bunye said.

He said the government "is continuously banking on our partnership in pursuing political and economic reforms towards a better future for all Filipinos."

He said the filing of an impeachment complaint against President Arroyo by Caloocan Bishop Deogracias Iñiguez does not "speak for the Church and we take this issue as an isolated case.

"It (impeachment complaint of Iñiguez) does not in the least affect the overall good relations of the clergy and the government in all areas of social and spiritual concerns," Bunye said.

Malacañang earlier called on the CBCP to sanction Iñiguez for supposedly violating the constitutional principle of the separation of Church and State.

source: http://www.philstar.com/philstar/NEWS200607050421.htm

[istoryador]

Did GMA do anything, in the wake of the pastoral letter, to aid or facilitate the Church-desired search for the truth about the 2004 presidential elections and the associated issue of her legitimacy? She did not. On the contrary, she did everything possible to prevent the discovery of the truth about the Hello Garci tapes, the agricultural-funds scan of Undersecretary Joc-Joc Bolante and other diversions of government funds to her electoral campaign, the involvement of top military officers in the Mindanao polls and the widespread cheating orchestrated by Commissioner “Garci” Garcillano.

She gave no clear instructions to the government agencies directly concerned — the Department of Foreign Affairs, the Bureau of Immigration and the National Bureau of Investigation — to track down the fugitive Garci and make him appear before the congressional bodies investigating the circumstances surrounding his 15 cellphone conversations with her. To prevent the involved military commanders and other probably-electioneering government officials from giving testimony to Congress, Gloria Arroyo issued Executive Order 464, which required government officials to seek her prior approval for appearing before the legislature. For good measure, to make sure that no Edsa-style ventilation of information and opinion about the 2004 presidential elections was done in the nation’s streets, Gloria Arroyo issued an order replacing the Marcosian maximum-tolerance police posture toward street protesters with a tough new approach, the infamous calibrated preemptive response policy (CPR).

Naturally, the CBCP was alarmed and upset.
If the CBCP insists that a relentless search must be carried out for the truth about the Hello Garci tapes and the integrity of the 2004 presidential elections and Gloria Arroyo keeps using all the means at her disposal to thwart that search, it can be said with all certainty that the two protagonists are on a collision course. At the rate things are going — with the Catholic Bishops Conference of the Philippines clearly showing signs of increasing frustration — the collision could well occur in the new few months.

Like all probable collisions, this one can be averted. Who is likely to effect course correction — the CBCP or GMA? Because the choice before it is the goodwill of one solitary person and the respect of the 81 percent of surveyed Filipinos who want GMA out of Malacañang by either constitutional or extra-constitutional means, the CBCP is unlikely to be the course-corrector. For the Catholic hierarchy it seems to be “Full speed ahead.”

For GMA, it is a no-win situation. Whichever way she decides to go, she will lose. If she refuses to give in to the CBCP’s request — veiled demand, really — for the truth about the 2004 presidential elections, she will clash head-on with the Catholic Church, and that’s a fight she can’t win. And if she gives in and the truth about Mr. Garcillano and the generals emerges, she will be a goner in no time.

[istoryador]

. It is sheer hypocrisy for Malacañang now to raise the issue of the separation of Church and State. Did Malacañang feel this way when the CBCP declared that the May 2004 presidential elections were sufficiently clean and credible, and that GMA (Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo) had therefore received a clean mandate? Did GMA feel this way when Cardinal Sin appeared on stage at Edsa 2? The Church-State issue is a false issue. Malacañang thinks we have a terribly short memory if it thinks we have forgotten all those other times when it lauded the bishops (”wise and blessed”) when they acted or spoke as GMA had wished.

[SamuraiArcher]

Nasobrahan namn gud ang pag-apil-apil sa Church sa government........

[wanderlust]

. It is sheer hypocrisy for Malacañang now to raise the issue of the separation of Church and State. Did Malacañang feel this way when the CBCP declared that the May 2004 presidential elections were sufficiently clean and credible, and that GMA (Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo) had therefore received a clean mandate? Did GMA feel this way when Cardinal Sin appeared on stage at Edsa 2? The Church-State issue is a false issue. Malacañang thinks we have a terribly short memory if it thinks we have forgotten all those other times when it lauded the bishops (”wise and blessed”) when they acted or spoke as GMA had wished.

Isn't it inconsistent for the CBCP to claim that the presidential elections were clean and credible, and later to claim the contrary?

It just shows the growing politicization of the CBCP. Even its stand is susceptible to the political bias of its leaders.