Why Humans Believe in God

[buttmen]

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.... what i can do to change that for my kids, though, is to stop the practice of passing along to my kids what religion i belong to (since now i don't have a religion, that would not be a problem). although i wish my parents could have done a different thing---like not forcing me to go to church and stuff.

What you mean 'would not be a problem'? You are still facing the problem whether you should let them follow your views on religion or not. Say you let your kids build up their own views on religion, how's that really gonna work? At exactly what age shall these kids learn to understand that religion is not just about measuring its absurdity, but also about building one's faith. Now, one way of doing this is by becoming oneself a model to these kids, whether by influence or by force; but in this manner, you are still an agent of what they might become as an adult. Again, if a parent is seen smoking, the kid would grow to have an awareness of what smoking is, whether the kid decides to smoke or not.

Now you were raised by parents who somehow forced you to go to church; whether you go to church or not today, it still is your decision and not by your parents. Whether you were forced to go to the river or not...whether your parents used a paddle just to make you say the word Amen, it still would be your decision what you want to do at this moment. My point is, I think it would just be inevitable that kids will just imitate what the elderly people are doing. We mistake this for an integration when in fact it's just a mere act of obedience... going with our parents to the church...etc. I understand you were longing for that experience wherein you yourself were the one deciding to go to church and not them.

If you are showing to them that you have no religion as you said, then you are also telling these kids that they should grow one day without a religion.

What if your parents decided not to have you enrolled in your school? Do you think, say when you were still 6 years old, you would go all by yourself bringing all those requirements for enrollment. But say you were already endowed with an adult intellect when you were still 6yrs old, wouldn't it be unrealistic? Did they force you to go to school? Again whether they force you or not, the truth still remains that when you were still a child, there are things that would only be sensible only when the parents are involved in making the decision.

I'm also a victim of this. How I wish our elementary teachers gave me the option which religion to choose from when I was still in my 4th grade. But there's no parallel life upon which I could mirror my own self, it just didn't exist. But which one is safer; to have a religion class solely for Catholicism or to have a class wherein kids get the chance to choose what they wanna be. For a parent, the former is safer than the latter. For a kid, I think, it doesn't really matter. For a teacher? Hmmm. Say you are an atheist, how would you discuss religion class to a grade 4-6 pupils, (and one of them might be your own kid), without enforcing your own belief as an atheist/agnostic? Interesting. In the US of A, some, if not most, schools prohibit pupils from leading a prayer inside their classroom. This could be their way of exercising religious freedom.

This is funny. One time, I asked one of my foreign students to lead in prayer. After the prayer, the class was laughing. I learned later that the student I had asked to lead in the prayer happened to be an atheist, or that she was raised as an atheist. But she did recited well. Asia!

So are you saying had your parents not forced you to go to church (and some other stuffs) you still would have hold on to that religion that you used to have? Well of course, there are other factors.

[chad_tukes]

What you mean 'would not be a problem'? You are still facing the problem whether you should let them follow your views on religion or not. Say you let your kids build up their own views on religion, how's that really gonna work? At exactly what age shall these kids learn to understand that religion is not just about measuring its absurdity, but also about building one's faith. Now, one way of doing this is by becoming oneself a model to these kids, whether by influence or by force; but in this manner, you are still an agent of what they might become as an adult. Again, if a parent is seen smoking, the kid would grow to have an awareness of what smoking is, whether the kid decides to smoke or not.

it would not be a problem due to the fact that i don't have to worry about religion like some people would at the onset of their kid's birth. there would be a problem per se, like how i would guide and treat my kids, but in terms of imposing my own religion to them, it wouldn't be a problem.

how's that gonna work? back read the thread for that. again, why would you slap your kid with religious labels? like Catholic child... Muslim child... etc.? you have to raise your consciousness in such a way that religion is something for them to CHOOSE, not to IMPOSE upon.

Now you were raised by parents who somehow forced you to go to church; whether you go to church or not today, it still is your decision and not by your parents. Try to go to church this Sunday, just give it a shot... afterwards, you say to yourself that it really is you deciding to go to church and not just a mere act of obedience. In this way, you will see the difference as far as the motivation is concerned: one, that of going to church when you were just a kid, and the other, as an adult. Whether you were forced to go to the river or not...whether your parents used a paddle just to make you say the word Amen, it still would be your decision what you want to do at this moment. I understand you really were longing for that experience wherein you yourself were the one deciding to go to church and not them.

being an adult is of course different from being a child. you, as an adult, have a conscious effort to go to church or not to go. you decide not to go because it is non-sense, at the same time, choose to go because you believe GOD will save you. it becomes a decision. whereas, a child doesn't know anything about religion, then you label that child with your own religion. this is not a form of guidance. ergo, you guide or teach your kids to let them make up their minds when they're old enough to do so.

i am not telling people what to do with their kids... i just find it ridiculous how our culture is built upon this kind of a process.

My point is, I think it would just be inevitable that kids will just imitate what the elderly people are doing. If you are showing to them that you have no religion as you said, then you are also telling these kids that they should grow one day without a religion.

precisely my point also. do not make these kids CATHOLICS or MUSLIMS because in fact, they are not. you the parent made that child a catholic or a muslim---not themselves.

So are you saying had your parents not forced you to go to church (and some other stuffs) you still would have hold on to that religion that you used to have? I just hope that whatever decisions we may have now, pray or not, believe or not, would not be a product of obsession for getting rid of our painful experiences in the past, but a product of our reflection.

had i not been forced to go to church, i think i would probably still be an Atheist. although that "forcing" i can say, is a "blessing" in disguise. it taught me how irrational faith and religion can be.

[chad_tukes]

I probably mixed it up but I am emphasizing and pointing out the FEAR of a GOD . Heck a Catholic can be so UNBECOMING thats why I said , lots of ATHEIST also should be considered as SAINTS by the catholics based on GOOD WORKS .

...and i agree with your statement. morality should not be based upon a person's religion or religious upbringing, lest be based upon a person's nationality or country of birth.

[chad_tukes]

God is the King of kings and Lord of lords.. period.. XD

actually, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the king of the universe. he/she created it. but that would sound really absurd, wouldn't it?

to say that GOD is King sounds more reasonable, i should say.

[kebotDiNaMute]

not just fundie type relatives but it is also apparent in this forum specifically this thread.

that's why i ain't feel no lovin' from the pips anymore.

that is because, you started the conflict and you cant handle it... sorry chad... ask yourself what happend...

if you think your parents made a tragic way of raising you... then you can always ask them right? but telling us your parents is wrong doesn't change anything... but rather makes us believe something is wrong with you... well, don't do that in public.. tell it to friends who will listen not the crowd without a common interest...

fyi... molestation is even worst... you can tell us your story if you are seeking for sympathy...

[kebotDiNaMute]

if you were born in a SOCIETY inclined to ISLAM/___(place your religion here), the probability of you ending up as one is pretty HIGH.
given that your parents are also byproducts under such society...yielding a christian or other types would be considered EYEBROW raising.

same can be said in asia's christian nation...yielding an ATHEIST by choice, is eyebrow raising enough. probably much WORST if your surrounded with FUNDIE type relatives.

it doesnt matter where and what place you are born... in someway if you do what you did to islamic religion... mocking and posting hate thread... I believe you are more than just a pile of dismembered parts... if you hate fundie.. then you must be lucky... we don't do that to you...


Yes athiesm is by choice... which means to say, whether true or false, right or wrong... you still choose to deny. Everything doesnt matter so long you kept denying... tell me am i RIGHT OR WRONG? this is worst than a fundie... gets?

[chad_tukes]

that is because, you started the conflict and you cant handle it... sorry chad... ask yourself what happend...

if you think your parents made a tragic way of raising you... then you can always ask them right? but telling us your parents is wrong doesn't change anything... but rather makes us believe something is wrong with you... well, don't do that in public.. tell it to friends who will listen not the crowd without a common interest...

fyi... molestation is even worst... you can tell us your story if you are seeking for sympathy...

oh noes... can't believe you guys thought i was an abused child.

read the thread carefully before you comment on anything. ayaw pa taka-taka storya kay mahagbong na nga personalay na. truth of the matter is, i was raised PROPERLY by my parents, except that i was constantly forced to go to church every Sunday, which by the way, almost ALL Filipino went through when they were young. so essentially, some of you here can relate with me. i ain't seeking sympathy---i have friends and family for that. i am here to question your beliefs. you scared?

[kebotDiNaMute]

...and i agree with your statement. morality should not be based upon a person's religion or religious upbringing, lest be based upon a person's nationality or country of birth.

so when your child was caught stealing do you want the country to punish him or yourself? well building these moral starts at a very young age... i am willing to descipline your child bro... want to try me? its not painful, but if you dont bear the responsibility... thats where the law will take your child away from you...

dont tell me you dont know whats moraly right and wrong... that way you become dependent on others... well to tell you the truth... its easy... read your bible.

[chad_tukes]

so when your child was caught stealing do you want the country to punish him or yourself? well building these moral starts at a very young age... i am willing to descipline your child bro... want to try me? its not painful, but if you dont bear the responsibility... thats where the law will take your child away from you...

dont tell me you dont know whats moraly right and wrong... that way you become dependent on others... well to tell you the truth... its easy... read your bible.

wutt... you don't need the Bible to learn morality. in the first place, morality is not only learned but inherited in our genes as well. a lot of factors weigh in morality such as environmental, biological, and psychological. religion is on the environmental aspect of it. you take away religion and you still have morality. and who says i won't be responsible with my child? well no offense, but sorry to tell you that you're the last person i want as a babysitter.

[AmorsoloX]

wutt... you don't need the Bible to learn morality. in the first place, morality is not only learned but inherited in our genes as well. a lot of factors weigh in morality such as environmental, biological, and psychological. religion is on the environmental aspect of it. you take away religion and you still have morality. and who says i won't be responsible with my child? well no offense, but sorry to tell you that you're the last person i want as a babysitter.

i agree with this.. our primitive ancestors decided that they cooperate with each other or else the big bad mammoth will kill them.. anybody who separates from the group is "immoral" or different and most probably will be dessert by the sabertooth tiger.. they didnt need to conform with each other because some god said so, they did it for survival..

the bible has no monopoly on the teachings of morality..