THE OBELISK: a pagan symbol?

[noy]

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Bitaw bro, it doesnt mean nga kung occult na, evil na sya. Pero kung ang origin sa mao nga teaching is against god's word, kana tingali maoy angay i-discover unsa jud iyang purpose.

kung nahibung ta nganong in ani na ang dagan sa kalibutan karon (morality declines, sin abounds, those who are doing righteous things is mocked and those who are influenced with the occult and expressive in their way is praised, ex: hollywood), mao ni resulta sa mga hidden things that slowly creeping/corrupting our society.

okay ra bro uie, ako gani tagsa ra jud ko makalugar tungod sad sa ka busy. but it's really encouraging to have minds of different perspective para daghan sad tag makat-unan.

Thanks bro./

OT:as long as we are alive bro, we will always be learning..so salamat pud..

OnT:mao nga kung mag speculate gani ta ug something, i think we should look at its fruits...
if naka cause ba ug kagubot...mao pasagdi na nang obelisk sa Rome oi kay total
wa pa may nayawaan tungod anang obelisk didto...ug as long as wala pay
nag ampo sa obelisk i think way kaso ra na...or as long as way doktrina ang simbahang katoliko
nga ang obelsik importante sa kaluwasan or unsa pa na diha...ok ra guro na...

by the time comes bro, nga ang church muingun nga kinahanglan ta mag ampo sa obelisk...
kana murag magkasinabut na jud ta..Lol

[Breakeven]

First, I want to make clear that I am not against any Roman Catholic in this forum….im here only to share things Ive known as against the scripture. Hope you won’t get me wrong. Sorry if naa koy namention which will offend you.
Proverbs 12:22
Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.

@noy

mangutana ko nimu, how sure are you that the practices of the Catholic Church that protestants detest( saints, mary, sacraments etc) is an abomination to the Lord?

Sorry dili klaro akong pagmention.
There are teachings/interpretations dili big deal sa akoa including those mentioned above. Wala koy problema ana bro. Maybe there are links akong nashare tingali that talks about ana, but personally I do not detest it. I revere those Christians from the past and the present who lead a good life and example sa atua…..how much more of the blessed mother of Jesus. But I do not worship them. I can only ask from fellow Christians/leaders to pray for my soul anytime if I need to.

in this topic, how sure are you that the Obelisk in Rome kay naay occultic nagpaluyo? like i said earlier...Makita na sa fruits bro...kung kanang Obelisk sa Rome, if naa pay nagpaluyo nga di mao ana...gihimu na unta nang something Special sa RCC ug naa na untay Doktrina bahin ana..

Dili man sad in ana ka open bro kung dunay hidden global agenda ang usa ka grupo, just like sa kang @jovi bah, secret2. Mao bitaw nay gitawag ug New World Order, one world government tungod naay nag conspire nga ubang world leaders to unite the world….of course nay spiritual force nga nagpaluyo ana.

I open this topic para malamdagan sad akong doubtful mind sa insakto ug unsa ang kamatuoran aning butanga. At present, I stick to the word of God that talks about these things especially the prophecies. It’s like the pieces of the puzzle lang that is set into place nga nakita nako ang bigger picture.

then you should have at least searched widely within a Catholic's perspective before considering another denomination..para at least karun nga nibalhin naka..lapad2x naka ug pagsabut nganu mao ni ug mao na sa simbahang Katoliko..kay tinuod kung tan.awn lang nato gamit atong tawhanong mata...sa makita nato sa simbahan...sa mga questions nga mag sud-gawas sa atong utok bahin sa atong relihiyon isip katoliko...kung di ta mangita ug taman ug di hugot atong salabutan sa mga doktrinang katoliko, plus dugngan pa sa ubang pari, catekista nga way klaro ug tubag kung pangutan.on..hehehe(sad but true) ug naa pa juy uban magpabadlong, aw. lagmit...mubiya jud tas pagka katoliko...

bro sorry to say this but sa tinuod lang, there was a point in my life nga nagpangita kog answer of life’s meaning and I was not satisfied sa mga gishare/tubag sa mga kailang church leaders/laymen….tingali kulang lang ilang knowledge ato nga time. It happened na sharean ko sa gospel by a true Christian, daghan ko pangutana and it satisfies my soul. Diha sad nako nasabtan pag ayo ang kaluwasan nga gi offer sa ginoo. Timing lang bro nga dili pareha nimo ug knowledge ang nasugat nako nga katoliko..hhehe.

on the other hand bai, if being protestant will lead you more closer to God then by all means, ayaw na intawn ug balik sa RCC..hehehehe...kay sakto, ang importante kay ang relasyon nato sa Ginoo...

Not to belittle the RC church bro, as I said before padayon ta kung asa sa atong paminaw nag grow ta spiritually. I respect many Catholics nga akong nailhan who lived by the gospel. Wala ko nag ingon nga ang pagsulod sa ubang grupo makapaduol nimo sa ginoo, theyre there either to lead or divert us diha sa kamatuoran. But still it’s a personal conviction.

i understand nga ang RCC often labeled as non-scriptural, non -biblical denomination....tungod kay naay mgfa pratices nga dili literally mabasa dayun sa BIble
by saying you'd rather base everything in scriptures for finding truth, do you mean literally? or not necessarily..

Cellphones, computers, other inventions wala mana sa bible but does that mean dili nata mopalit tungod kay nay verse that says love not the world neither the things that are in the world? NO. Not necessarily bro nga kung dili mabasa sa bible it means dautan sya or dili makaayo. It’s up to our conviction ug pagsabot sa pulong sa ginoo. Anything that hinder, diminish or destroy our relationship sa ginoo and our spiritual life I think mao nay dili makaayo.

But for those teachings/practices that is mentioned explicitly diha sa iyang pulong nga dili nato angay buhaton, I think mao nay angay sad I consider kung angayan bang sundon.

at one point, yes i agree with you...
however in the event nga sayop ka, what if lang ha, then you might have caused a confusion on others who are already confused...

Dili ta angay maworry bro to the confused coz in some point of their lives magpangita sila sa kamatuoran, makit-an rana nila. We’d rather be concern to those who at present nag assume nga kamatuoran na ilang nasudlan kay tungod daghan or dako ang simbahan.

Im not saying im totally correct coz taw lang sad ko nga limited ug huna2. But Im trusting on the word of God, the BIBLE that’s been preserved for a purpose bisan kapila na gi-attempt ug destroy ug sunog.

no bai, i did not say nga kahibaw ko tanan-tanan about sa RCC..
but to be clear, i believe i know about RCC as an RCC than those who are non-RCC..
in the same case that you would consider a filipino teacher more knowledgeable about the subject than a PE teacher...

Kasabot ko sa imong point bro.
Generally speaking, same thing for the bible-believing Christians mas knowledgeable sila kaysa non-bible believers. When talking about the prophecies, I think mas pabor ang nagbasi sa bibliya kay daghan man references ilang makuha.

kanang limited/restricted access sa vatican archives bai...
basin ug for security lang na gud...it doesnt have to be mixed with occultic sense...
in fact, sa LSS(life in the spirit seminar) sa Catholic Charismaticss
kay naay laying of hands to close the third eye, surrendering of habak2x( mga ngipun sa buwaya, unlan nga way punda...Lol )
meaning: the RCC detests occultic agendas...nya karun naa nay nagpaluyo nga occultism..hehehe.. murag nag contradict naman nuon na bai...

Hahhhaha habak nga ngipon sa buaya….kahinumdum lang sad ko ani pagkagamay nako bro, naa koy habak nga bala ambot unsay sulod ato pang abog man daw sa dautan.
Mao bitaw daghan mystery nga nangahitabo within the RCC bro like katong gi murder nga Pope, etc. kay dunay 2 forces nga naglihok sa sulod. Don’t you know nga daghang mga butang gi reveal sa ubang priest nga nanghawa ug wala nato mabalo-i?

hmmmmm.....kasabut ko nimu bai...promise....
when we speak of the truth..as Christians our truth is what is said in john3:16 diba? that is our absolute truth...karun kanang atong truth nga gina consider, like kanang denominational based teachings...kanang about practices basically minor doctrines…are you really sure that how your church/denomination view those doctrines is the truth? muingun pud ta ug based sa bible...how sure are you that kana nga particular verse should be understood the way you understood it...
like kanang pagbawal sa pagtawag sa mga minatay nga verse sa bible
some protestants would point out the Catholic practice of asking the saints to pray for them...
in RCC's POV, the verse refers to occultism, mediums, anything nga dili Christ centered nga pag contact sa mga minatay...for RCC asking the saints to pray for us are just the as asking Christian friends to pray for us...so how sure are you that how you see things is the truth?

Thanks bro.
Bitaw, mas knowledgeable jud ka compared nako. Broad imong knowledge and nindot imong wit and spontaneity.

Sa akoa pud bro, lahi2 man gud ang level or standards sa grupo when it comes to compliance to the word of God. Dunay fundamental kayo duna sad liberal, I will not compare asay angay sundon kay depende naman na nato kung asa ta mofit/grow. We are a diverse creation and we have different tastes…hehhe. Though we don’t know the mind of God kung asa sya mas mahimuot, to the Fundamentalist ba, sa soft Christian or sa carnal. But seems obvious to those who adhere to his word jud bro noh...hehhe. and duna sad tay basis nga angay natong subayon, the BIBLE, that’s why duna jud mo push or encourage nato to align diha sa kamatuoran.

Kay kung lenient lang bro, saksak sinagol ang resulta sa langit kay hasta man ang hindus/Buddhist, etc nga wala motuo sa personal god ang atong maapil ana nga idea. Sa bagay ang ginoo ray nakabalo kung kinsa iyang angay luwason.

now kanang mga tigulang sa simbahan nga mamadlong sa mga batan.on nga kusog kaayo mamuyag sa mga batan.on diba out of love man pud na? but naa puy uban nga maka condemn na nuon...
we can only say that what we do is really out of love is through the fruits bro..there's a thin line between reaching out and compromise...it doesn't mean nga higpit kaayo ka kay it denotes love already...it doesn't mean pud kay lax ka, compromise na dayun...
i hope you see my point.

Yup I got your point bro. Akong ma relate in a relationship.
There are people nga grabe ug pasensya sa ilang badlongon nga asawa (vice versa) tungod sa ilang dakong gugma. Usahay mahimo na hinuon syang dautan kay I tolerate lang gihapon ang sayop nga buhat sa iyang pares. But we don’t know what’s in his heart nganong nakabuhat sya ana. Same thing with the love of God, he demonstrate it in the death of His Son. Mo link na diri imong verse nga gihatag John 3:16. Kung sabton nato ang verse, God is both loving and just. Dili pud love or justice tanan. His Love is always coupled with His justice.

historical importance gani...kaw jud! Lol
no importance in terms of divine worship...pero sa history ug uban mga sentimental reasons...naa...

Actually, naa baya jud bro but unconscious lang tingali mostly.
PAGAN SUN WORSHIP AND CATHOLICISM - LA VERITA - THE TRUTH

natural, because it is not something that would matter in terms of salvation and relationship sa Ginoo.

…or it is something that is hidden from the masses
Id like to share some links bro which needs proper judgment. I do not suggests to believe all these but make reference with the bible and see if this is true. I myself am not totally convinced pa ani.

The Biggest Vatican Secret Revealed! - YouTube
Mark Of The Beast And Paganism In The Catholic Church

you looked for an explanation/another POV why there's an Obelisk in front of St.peter's basilica in Rome diba?..so mao nihatag kog explanation that it is something historical rather than spiritual..from Catholic's POV.

Not only the obelisk bro but thanx so much bro for sharing your views also. Naa sad ko nakat-unan.

OT: tkita na kas x-structure of whirlpool galaxy? choi kaayo to bro..tan.awa gani

Ill try to check bro….thanks.
May God's love reigns in our hearts.....and may God bless us all who seek for the truths!

[Bricksand]

it was actually the Jews who asked to crucify Jesus under the Roman Empire bai break,

Bro noy murag ma disagree ko ani nga statement...

Anyway kaning mga symbol dili mani makatabang for our salvation but for discussion purposes only nice choice of topic.

[cobraKing]

bai breakheaven dli ba ni related sa mason kani na mga structure??

[SioDenz]

share lang ko sio ha, i think wala jud literally nga ning ingun si Lord nga "i will choose a pagan symbol "the cross" for my church..hehehe
but if we believe that God knows all things and has infinite knowledge and wisdom. whose will is absolute and perfect Especially about salvation, even before the cross was invented sio, i believe God already had the cross in mind.
so because Jesus died on the cross, He must have and i believe chose the cross to play a significant role in our salvation...
therefore basing on God's perfect will, God chooses on His own accord not driven by circumstances.

OT: speaking of crosses, check ra gud ninyo guys sa google isearch lang ang image...
X- structure of the whirlpool galaxy...
makes me think that before pa nahimo ang very first cross sa earth, God already had the cross in mind when He made the galaxies...

My main point is since Jesus did Not mention anything about choosing a Cross or using a cross, then we should Not assume what God or Jesus thinks or plans UNLESS its written in the Bible. Jesus said in the bible:

John 4:23-24
23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

If you will introduce the concept of Symbols or Objects in worshiping God then it contradict whats Jesus said about worship in spirit. That's why the main message of Jesus is His Death not where or how he was killed. That we should remember that He died for our sins.

[Breakeven]

bai breakheaven dli ba ni related sa mason kani na mga structure??

as what ive known bro, it;s related. Pero gamay ra akong nabaloan about ani. Dont believe everything i posted, research for yourself. thanks.

Welcome to The Key of Solomon

[<SMILE>]

It means that we should be ready to undergo hardships, trials, etc. if we choose to follow Jesus. Pero dili ang kalisud maoy makaluwas nato.
Moagi man gud ta ug transformation process bro nga dili nato makaya kung kita2 lang, but with the help of the Holy Spirit we will be slowly changed.

Mark 8:34

34 And calling the crowd to him with his disciples, he said to them, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

I dont think that undergoing through trials
would save us from our sins,
we should go through trials following Jesus Christ's way
is the exact term.
Then why is it that the cross is mentioned, and be informed
that this is a salvation verse from the bible.
Is pagan symbol really evil, why is that God use one of it's symbol
to make as atoned, is there a verse in the bible that prohibits
specifically the use of pagan symbols.

[Breakeven]

Mark 8:34

34 And calling the crowd to him with his disciples, he said to them, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

I dont think that undergoing through trials
would save us from our sins,
we should go through trials following Jesus Christ's way
is the exact term.
Then why is it that the cross is mentioned, and be informed
that this is a salvation verse from the bible.
Is pagan symbol really evil, why is that God use one of it's symbol
to make as atoned, is there a verse in the bible that prohibits
specifically the use of pagan symbols.

I agree bro. para nako, symbols are just representations, wala nay gahum. Evil is when you apply and use that symbol.

This one for example, about images...if God prohibits this then there's no reason nga maayo sad magamit sa symbols.

Leviticus 26:1
"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God."

Deuteronomy 12:2-3
"Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree: And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place. "

Leviticus 18:3-4
"After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the LORD your God."

Leviticus 18:30
"Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God."

[noy]

Bro noy murag ma disagree ko ani nga statement...

Anyway kaning mga symbol dili mani makatabang for our salvation but for discussion purposes only nice choice of topic.

ikaw lang akong unahon ug reply bro kay murag mubo2x ra ni imu..hehehe

you remember Barrabas right? who requested for his release over Jesus? was it pilate on behalf of the Roman empire? or the Jews themselves along with the High Priests...?

please read Luke 23.1-25

[<SMILE>]

I agree bro. para nako, symbols are just representations, wala nay gahum. Evil is when you apply and use that symbol.

This one for example, about images...if God prohibits this then there's no reason nga maayo sad magamit sa symbols.

Leviticus 26:1
"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God."

Deuteronomy 12:2-3
"Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree: And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place. "

Leviticus 18:3-4
"After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the LORD your God."

Leviticus 18:30
"Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God."

Thanks sa verses Bro,
Please let me portray it in the most
practical way.

If naa koy uyab,unya magkalagyoay mi,
dili na ko kakita niya,
akong gibuhat gatago ko ug iyang picture
sa akong pitaka, para sa panahon nga mingawon
ko niya maoy akong tan-aw tan-awon,
sa akong gibuhat nakasala kaha ko sa akong uyab?

Dili kaha ang sala ana Bro,
nga sa wala na ang akong uyab,kay nagkalagyoay man mi.
nagtago ko ug picture sa laing babaye?

How about God,
sala ba diay nga maghimo ko ug representation
niya kay dili na man nako siya makita?