THE OBELISK: a pagan symbol?

[Breakeven]

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Maora man gud ug symbol gyud na sa salvation ang cross Bro, pareha ini o.

Mark 8:34

34 And calling the crowd to him with his disciples, he said to them, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

It means that we should be ready to undergo hardships, trials, etc. if we choose to follow Jesus. Pero dili ang kalisud maoy makaluwas nato.
Moagi man gud ta ug transformation process bro nga dili nato makaya kung kita2 lang, but with the help of the Holy Spirit we will be slowly changed.

[noy]

1

The emphasis is in the Lord Jesus Christ, not the cross. Bisan pa unsa ang paagi sa pagpatay wala gihapon nay connection sa saving power of Jesus' death and resurrection.

perhas God wanted us to remember and have something tangible about His sacrifice and death, that's where the cross comes in..
ang point we're trying to raise bai is that if God had issues with pagan symbols...God would have NEVER let Jesus died on the cross.
same concept can be applied to the Obelisk in Rome, it is something tangible that reminds us of the sacrifices of early Christian martyrs.
though it was or even is still a pagan symbol..it's no big deal..
after all, Jesus puts emphasis on the fruits, do we find Catholics praying and worshiping the Obelisk in Rome? i think wala pa man cguro.

[cobraKing]

kinsa man sad ang nag pahimo ani?? unsa man pud rason nganong gihimo ni sila??

[noy]

Pag post daw ug verse nga si Kristo if maghisgot ug kaluwasan mu refer siya ug Cross? kana si Jesus jud ha. Para ma klaru ba if ni CHOOSE ba jud siya or unsa ka importansya ang paggamit sa cross. Kay kanang imung verse wa juy nag indicate dha nga si Kristo naghisgot nga cross iyang i CHOOSE. Ang main point man gud dha is ang pagpalansang ni Kristo para natu. since wala hatagi ug importansya murag way kalambigitan na sa main purpose.

If atung hatagan ug meaning ang tanang butang sa Bibliya bisag wa hisguti, maghimu nsad tag lain Thread Nganu DONKEY ang gisakyan ni Kristo pagsulod sa Jerusalem ug di man Kabayo or Baka or asno or unsa pa dha...

share lang ko sio ha, i think wala jud literally nga ning ingun si Lord nga "i will choose a pagan symbol "the cross" for my church..hehehe
but if we believe that God knows all things and has infinite knowledge and wisdom. whose will is absolute and perfect Especially about salvation, even before the cross was invented sio, i believe God already had the cross in mind.
so because Jesus died on the cross, He must have and i believe chose the cross to play a significant role in our salvation...
therefore basing on God's perfect will, God chooses on His own accord not driven by circumstances.

OT: speaking of crosses, check ra gud ninyo guys sa google isearch lang ang image...
X- structure of the whirlpool galaxy...
makes me think that before pa nahimo ang very first cross sa earth, God already had the cross in mind when He made the galaxies...

[Breakeven]

@noy

amen to continue growing in Spirit, all the more bai that we should widen our horizons with regard to these things..

Thanks bro. Wala nako giclose akong thinking with regards to these things. That’s why I raised this topic to acquire more insights from our fellow istoryans who are more knowledgeable than me. I want to know the truth also. If you can explain well or provide links to justify this, I would take time to read it.

when i said unbiased bro, it means to be able to search from different if not all areas, free from comfortable perspectives..of course, kung mga anti Catholic sites imu gina visit kanunay, unya ang imung orientation isip Protestante, against na daan sa ubang Catholic practices..dayun ang mga research materials nimu kay of the same point of view sa imung nahibaw,an daan...not that there's something wrong with it ha but for understanding other POV's sake what would you gain other than what you already have?

Sakto baya ning imong idea bro kana kung wala ang mystery sa evil aning kalibutana. But even gani sa ka crisis sa panahon karon, wala man gani makasabot ang tawo mostly kung nganong na in ani ang dagan sa kalibutan, kinsa ang mga nagpaluyo. But kasabot ko bro why you tend to defend even the very obvious teachings/practices which are abominable sa ginoo….

sama sa usa ka Atheist, kung puro Atheistic perspecives ra iyang studyohan...impossible jud siya makasabut sa Theism..

Tingali wala lang ko na satisfy sa akong pagkakatoliko sa una bro but as I said, dili man importante ang atong grupo, it is our relationship to God and our spiritual growth that matters. Mo stick man jud ta bro kung unsay insakto basi sa atong conviction. That’s why I rather choose to rely on the word of God than traditions of men coz God’s word never change. Diha sad nako nasabtan ang kamatuoran that relates to reality.

wala man ta nagpa maayohay ug denominasyon ngari bai ha kay mao nay labaw sa tanang makasubo sa atong Ginoo...but ang punto, basaha ra gud nang imung link nga gi post, does that link really promote "TRUTH"? or some conspiracy trying to disprove and discredit Roman Catholicism through some pagan symbol that the church in Rome found to be historically significant...klaro kaayo nga ang imung link is of those Anti Catholics..tsk tsk tsk, dwelling on them would not only cause fixation but worse is you might end up hating CAtholics unconsciously. accusing them with occultism, why i used the term accuse? 'cause i'm Catholic and i know there's no truth behind what the link was trying to imply pertaining to pagan worship and Catholicism...

Dili man pasabot bro that I am against the Catholics in general, as you may know, most of my relatives are still Roman Catholics. There are truths in it and I am not saying what I posted are all true nor convince people to believe in me. Ato lang ni gipost to encourage readers to search for themselves kay sila mismo they hunger for truth.

Kung ang ubang cardinals and individuals of higher authority were not allowed to enter in some Restricted places sa Vatican, how sure you are nga makaingon ka nakabalo naka sa tanang sekreto sa Vatican and theres no truth sa maong information?

suwayi ra gud ug basa kanunay ug mga Hate articles towards Islam esp tong nag focus sa mga beheading,jihad,(note: mga binuhat sa mga extremist)..pirmeha jud, diba no surprize you'd feel something stingy towards our muslim brothers..
now as a Christian, does that really confirms the Love of Chrsit? the apostles and early Christian martyrs loved their persecuters even to the point of giving up their lives not only for the sake of the gospel but for the sake of loving their enemies..does anti CAtholic links really promotes the Love of Christ?

Yes, I agree with you. We ought to love others bro but not to the point of compromising but telling them the truth of the bible. Mao lang sad tingali ni resulta bro sa sige nakog basa sa bible ang listen to prophetic seminars hope masabtan sad ko nimo.

try to think about it, if the Obelisk was such a biggie in RCC, then each Roman Catholic Church should have an Obelisk displayed on the Altar.. pero wala diba? like i asked you earlier, what specific doctrine of the Catholic Church states that the Obelisk is something that we worship?

Then it should be uprooted from Saint Peter’s square if it’s of no importance. Mao bitaw walay nakabalo kaayo ana because of its occult meaning. Do most Catholics know these? Wala. Of course dili jud na ipaapil sa church doctrine labi na kung anti-christian ang iyang origin or meaning.

How about the PINE CONE? Kani murag related jud ni sa kang jovi nga opening of the third eye.
Richard Cassaro » Blog Archive » Occult Secrets Behind Pine Cone Art & Architecture

the answer is No, the Obelisk IN Rome is dear to Catholicism 'cause it served as the silent witness of the blood of martyrs shed for the Christian faith ,it is special Historically and Sentimentally but it's not part

To be honest, even if we ask most Catholics here bro, wala jud kabalo anang imong gi mention.

Again, lahi2 ta ug views bro but we try to respect each other. Dili man sad tingali dautan kung maghisgot ta aning mga butanga kay gipangita man nato ang para sa atong kaayuhan. Mao bitaw naglibog na ang taw sa dagan sa atong kalibutan karon.

peace bro

[Breakeven]

perhas God wanted us to remember and have something tangible about His sacrifice and death, that's where the cross comes in..
ang point we're trying to raise bai is that if God had issues with pagan symbols...God would have NEVER let Jesus died on the cross.
same concept can be applied to the Obelisk in Rome, it is something tangible that reminds us of the sacrifices of early Christian martyrs.
though it was or even is still a pagan symbol..it's no big deal..
after all, Jesus puts emphasis on the fruits, do we find Catholics praying and worshiping the Obelisk in Rome? i think wala pa man cguro.

Kinsa man nga Christian martyr bro ang gipatay diha sa Colon going to Parian? naa man jud obelisk diha...hehehh

[Breakeven]

kinsa man sad ang nag pahimo ani?? unsa man pud rason nganong gihimo ni sila??

That is hidden from us bro. Mao nay nindot natong i search pud.

[noy]

Kinsa man nga Christian martyr bro ang gipatay diha sa Colon going to Parian? naa man jud obelisk diha...hehehh

Lol murag wala man bro, i was talking about the Obelisk in Rome hence the Christian martyrs were mentioned..
kanang obelisk diha sa Colon, wa ko kahibaw ug nganu naay obelisk diha..
ang pangutana karun kay was that obelisk constructed by the church as an altar or some sort?
or perhaps simply an architectural adaptation of early cebuanos from different cultures..
ikaduhang pangutana, kung naa bay obelisk, should it mean nga it has something occultic going on?

like prehas anang all seeing eye bitaw, kang usa ka mata gisulod ug triangle...
sikat man kaayo na nga symbol sa illuminati daw ug satanism...
when actually that signifies God's infinite knowledge and wisdo, gain lang gi angkon sa mga Satanist or kinsa pa na dihang enlightened daw...

but no one else is all seeing but God himself...karun kung maka kita kag all seeing eye nga symbol...
it that RESTRICTED to occultism.satanist...illuminati? para nako bahala pag ila nang gamiton sa ilang mga agenda...
for me who believes in God's infinite knowledge...no other eye who is all seeing but God's.

unya nalang nako to tubagon imu isa ka post break ha, kay murag taas2x to...Lol

[Breakeven]

Lol murag wala man bro, i was talking about the Obelisk in Rome hence the Christian martyrs were mentioned..
kanang obelisk diha sa Colon, wa ko kahibaw ug nganu naay obelisk diha..
ang pangutana karun kay was that obelisk constructed by the church as an altar or some sort?
or perhaps simply an architectural adaptation of early cebuanos from different cultures..
ikaduhang pangutana, kung naa bay obelisk, should it mean nga it has something occultic going on?

like prehas anang all seeing eye bitaw, kang usa ka mata gisulod ug triangle...
sikat man kaayo na nga symbol sa illuminati daw ug satanism...
when actually that signifies God's infinite knowledge and wisdo, gain lang gi angkon sa mga Satanist or kinsa pa na dihang enlightened daw...

but no one else is all seeing but God himself...karun kung maka kita kag all seeing eye nga symbol...
it that RESTRICTED to occultism.satanist...illuminati? para nako bahala pag ila nang gamiton sa ilang mga agenda...
for me who believes in God's infinite knowledge...no other eye who is all seeing but God's.

unya nalang nako to tubagon imu isa ka post break ha, kay murag taas2x to...Lol

Bitaw bro, it doesnt mean nga kung occult na, evil na sya. Pero kung ang origin sa mao nga teaching is against god's word, kana tingali maoy angay i-discover unsa jud iyang purpose.

kung nahibung ta nganong in ani na ang dagan sa kalibutan karon (morality declines, sin abounds, those who are doing righteous things is mocked and those who are influenced with the occult and expressive in their way is praised, ex: hollywood), mao ni resulta sa mga hidden things that slowly creeping/corrupting our society.

okay ra bro uie, ako gani tagsa ra jud ko makalugar tungod sad sa ka busy. but it's really encouraging to have minds of different perspective para daghan sad tag makat-unan.

Thanks bro./

[noy]

@noy


Thanks bro. Wala nako giclose akong thinking with regards to these things. That’s why I raised this topic to acquire more insights from our fellow istoryans who are more knowledgeable than me. I want to know the truth also. If you can explain well or provide links to justify this, I would take time to read it.

thant's nice bro.
actually daghan kog gi post break but unfortunately di lang kaayo ta mag ka connect tungod in terms with POV kay lahi2x man tag orientation gud..
murag kadtong verse ba nga si Jesus nagmilagro ug bino...para sa ubang mga palahubog kay Jesus advocated drunkeness...Lol

Sakto baya ning imong idea bro kana kung wala ang mystery sa evil aning kalibutana. But even gani sa ka crisis sa panahon karon, wala man gani makasabot ang tawo mostly kung nganong na in ani ang dagan sa kalibutan, kinsa ang mga nagpaluyo. But kasabot ko bro why you tend to defend even the very obvious teachings/practices which are abominable sa ginoo….

of course, it's just natural for people to defend what they think is right..the respect is mutual..i want you to know nga kasabut ko nimu why you seem to think that way.

mangutana ko nimu, how sure are you that the practices of the Catholic Church that protestants detest( saints, mary, sacraments etc)
is an abomination to the Lord?
in this topic, how sure are you that the Obelisk in Rome kay naay occultic nagpaluyo? like i said earlier...Makita na sa fruits bro...
kung kanang Obelisk sa Rome, if naa pay nagpaluyo nga di mao ana...
gihimu na unta nang something Special sa RCC ug naa na untay Doktrina bahin ana..

Tingali wala lang ko na satisfy sa akong pagkakatoliko sa una bro but as I said, dili man importante ang atong grupo, it is our relationship to God and our spiritual growth that matters. Mo stick man jud ta bro kung unsay insakto basi sa atong conviction. That’s why I rather choose to rely on the word of God than traditions of men coz God’s word never change. Diha sad nako nasabtan ang kamatuoran that relates to reality.

then you should have at least searched widely within a Catholic's perspective before considering another denomination..para at least karun nga nibalhin naka..lapad2x naka ug pagsabut nganu mao ni ug mao na sa simbahang Katoliko..kay tinuod kung tan.awn lang nato gamit atong tawhanong mata...sa makita nato sa simbahan...sa mga questions nga mag sud-gawas sa atong utok bahin sa atong relihiyon isip katoliko...kung di ta mangita ug taman ug di hugot atong salabutan sa mga doktrinang katoliko, plus dugngan pa sa ubang pari, catekista nga way klaro ug tubag kung pangutan.on..hehehe(sad but true) ug naa pa juy uban magpabadlong, aw. lagmit...mubiya jud tas pagka katoliko...

on the other hand bai, if being protestant will lead you more closer to God then by all means, ayaw na intawn ug balik sa RCC..hehehehe...
kay sakto, ang importante kay ang relasyon nato sa Ginoo...

i understand nga ang RCC often labeled as non-scriptural, non -biblical denomination....tungod kay naay mgfa pratices nga dili literally mabasa dayun sa BIble
by saying you'd rather base everything in scriptures for finding truth, do you mean literally? or not necessarily..

Dili man pasabot bro that I am against the Catholics in general, as you may know, most of my relatives are still Roman Catholics. There are truths in it and I am not saying what I posted are all true nor convince people to believe in me. Ato lang ni gipost to encourage readers to search for themselves kay sila mismo they hunger for truth.

at one point, yes i agree with you...
however in the event nga sayop ka, what if lang ha, then you might have caused a confusion on others who are already confused...

Kung ang ubang cardinals and individuals of higher authority were not allowed to enter in some Restricted places sa Vatican, how sure you are nga makaingon ka nakabalo naka sa tanang sekreto sa Vatican and theres no truth sa maong information?

no bai, i did not say nga kahibaw ko tanan-tanan about sa RCC..
but to be clear, i believe i know about RCC as an RCC than those who are non-RCC..
in the same case that you would consider a filipino teacher more knowledgeable about the subject than a PE teacher...

kanang limited/restricted access sa vatican archives bai...
basin ug for security lang na gud...it doesnt have to be mixed with occultic sense...
in fact, sa LSS(life in the spirit seminar) sa Catholic Charismaticss
kay naay laying of hands to close the third eye, surrendering of habak2x( mga ngipun sa buwaya, unlan nga way punda...Lol )
meaning: the RCC detests occultic agendas...nya karun naa nay nagpaluyo nga occultism..hehehe.. murag nag contradict naman nuon na bai...

Yes, I agree with you. We ought to love others bro but not to the point of compromising but telling them the truth of the bible. Mao lang sad tingali ni resulta bro sa sige nakog basa sa bible ang listen to prophetic seminars hope masabtan sad ko nimo.

hmmmmm.....kasabut ko nimu bai...promise....
when we speak of the truth..as Christians our truth is what is said in john3:16 diba? that is our absolute truth...karun kanang atong truth nga gina consider, like kanang denominational based teachings...kanang about practices basically minor doctrines..
are you really sure that how your church/denomination view those doctrines is the truth? muingun pud ta ug based sa bible...
how sure are you that kana nga particular verse should be understood the way you understood it...
like kanang pagbawal sa pagtawag sa mga minatay nga verse sa bible
some protestants would point out the Catholic practice of asking the saints to pray for them...
in RCC's POV, the verse refers to occultism, mediums, anything nga dili Christ centered nga pag contact sa mga minatay...
for RCC asking the saints to pray for us are just the as asking Christian friends to pray for us...
so how sure are you that how you see things is the truth?

now kanang mga tigulang sa simbahan nga mamadlong sa mga batan.on nga kusog kaayo mamuyag sa mga batan.on
diba out of love man pud na?
but naa puy uban nga maka condemn na nuon...
we can only say that what we do is really out of love is through the fruits bro..there's a thin line between reaching out and compromise...
it doesn't mean nga higpit kaayo ka kay it denotes love already...
it doesn't mean pud kay lax ka, compromise na dayun...
i hope you see my point.

Then it should be uprooted from Saint Peter’s square if it’s of no importance. Mao bitaw walay nakabalo kaayo ana because of its occult meaning. Do most Catholics know these? Wala. Of course dili jud na ipaapil sa church doctrine labi na kung anti-christian ang iyang origin or meaning.

historical importance gani...kaw jud! Lol
no importance in terms of divine worship...pero sa history ug uban mga sentimental reasons...naa...

balik na pud tas cross bai, the cross is all over Christianity..
again it has its share of pagan roots.

To be honest, even if we ask most Catholics here bro, wala jud kabalo anang imong gi mention.

natural, because it is not something that would matter in terms of salvation and relationship sa Ginoo..

you looked for an explanation/another POV why there's an Obelisk in front of St.peter's basilica in Rome diba?..so mao nihatag kog explanation that it is something historical rather than spiritual..
from Catholic's POV.

OT: tkita na kas x-structure of whirlpool galaxy? choi kaayo to bro..tan.awa gani