Agnostics and Agnosticism

[tokidoki]

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This thread is about Agnosticism.

Let's lay down some ground rules first:
1) This is a thread for SHARING and NOT DEBATING.
2) For the person reading: This is a spontaneous discussion, please refrain from demanding "proof" or "evidence" from people sharing their thoughts.
3) For the person sharing: Please refrain from posting scriptures or sources of your beliefs because that implies preaching an established belief system. You can, however, VAGUELY reference them in part as source of your inspiration.
4) More importantly, obey the istorya rules as always.

If your personal beliefs in a "creator" do not fall in any of the existing "mainstream" beliefs and you also do not entertain the the thought that there's nothing bigger than us, post them here.

This thread is about YOUR personal experience/definition/theories about a greater being.

Since I do not have "powers" to control the thread you can do your part by NOT tolerating any deviations from the discussion. Please lang, control your impulse to attack trolls and flames.

Have fun.

[tokidoki]

I'll start.

My belief is that we were created by a brilliant mind. I wouldn't call him a "God" but I do acknowledge him as a creator. This can mean a lot of things to a lot of people but for me I would relate him to maybe a scientist of some sort. Yes, like the one in our labs experimenting with life.

Perhaps, he dictated the design of our existence through his set of rules of life. e.g. Organism A requires this, and so he develops attribute A and so on.

Yes, I also believe in intelligent design.

[kit_cebu]

Shouldn't there be a set of qualifying questions or something here?

[florida.blanca]

i'm an agnostic atheist. do i belong here?

i am uncertain of the existence of a deity, and it's hard to believe that a deity exists

[tokidoki]

@kit_cebu: like what man pre? People should just say what's on their mind.

[tokidoki]

i'm an agnostic atheist. do i belong here?

i am uncertain of the existence of a deity, and it's hard to believe that a deity exists

Agnostic atheist? I'm not sure if there is such a thing. heheh..

[pinoy_09]

Agnostic atheist here.

I don't believe in Intelligent Design for the fact that this proposition presents several problems, while at the same time I cannot totally dismiss it either. The plausibility is just too low for me, for now.

[tokidoki]

Agnostic atheist here.

I don't believe in Intelligent Design for the fact that this proposition presents several problems, while at the same time I cannot totally dismiss it either. The plausibility is just too low for me, for now.

ako bro baliktad. I find it implausible that there isn't at least a basic blueprint for our existence.

but I also believe that we spontaneously existed.

kita, man ka sa movie na "tron legacy" noh? I think somewhat our creator was like that. He had an idea in his head and built Tron City. What he didn't make, however, were the ISOs that just manifested itself.

Given the fact that we are all just a bunch of chemicals bonded together, maybe ing-ana siguro pud ta. There must've been conditions in this universe that caused life to exist by itself. If there was a creator I think he is not aware of our existence at all.

[pinoy_09]

ako bro baliktad. I find it implausible that there isn't at least a basic blueprint for our existence.

but I also believe that we spontaneously existed.

kita, man ka sa movie na "tron legacy" noh? I think somewhat our creator was like that. He had an idea in his head and built Tron City. What he didn't make, however, were the ISOs that just manifested itself.

Given the fact that we are all just a bunch of chemicals bonded together, maybe ing-ana siguro pud ta. There must've been conditions in this universe that caused life to exist by itself. If there was a creator I think he is not aware of our existence at all.

Wala pako kita anang Tron Legacy bai tokidoks... nindot?

Ang bottom line lang siguro ani bai kay we don't know for now 100% kung unsay origin sa universe. Ako man gud inclined kaayo ko sa science nga side, I'm sure ikaw pud. If I were to choose between Big Bang and ID, I'd choose the former.

[tokidoki]

Wala pako kita anang Tron Legacy bai tokidoks... nindot?

Ang bottom line lang siguro ani bai kay we don't know for now 100% kung unsay origin sa universe. Ako man gud inclined kaayo ko sa science nga side, I'm sure ikaw pud. If I were to choose between Big Bang and ID, I'd choose the former.

Yep. But you should've seen it in IMAX 3D.

Note: This is in no way a spoiler. Just my interpretations of the movie.

There are several religious references in the film. Flynn even claims that his discovery "will change everything". Science, medicine, arts, religion.

I never quite understood what he meant sa last part until I watched it a second time.

Flynn, is a "God" in Tron, in the sense that he created Tron City. He created CLU in his own image and likeness who will "build the perfect system". (Probably a reference to "Go forth an multiply.") But there's only a slight catch to this. CLU builds the system itself but he cannot create programs (virtual citizens of the city). Only users (humans who entered the system) can create programs.

Not only is he a creator, he also possesses god-like powers within the system. This was already existent in the original 80s Tron. Any "user" or human can manipulate the world of Tron. He simply wills something to be in his control.

While Tron is populated by "programs", i.e. PEOPLE he created, another race "manifested" in his system. He called them Isomorphic algorithms or ISOs. Mao ni ang character ni Qorra (olivia wilde). Personally, I don't know which ones we are in the real world. The programs or the ISOs. I think ISOs were an allusion to Jesus or something.

He claims that the core code of the ISOs were his design but everything else about their existence is "beyond him".

Well, as this wasn't already familiar. CLU became impatient, arrogant and corrupt. He lead a mutiny against his creator and massacred the ISOs because he saw them as an imperfection - a glitch in the system that needed correcting. I guess he was pissed and jealous that his creator promised to bring him to his world (heaven?), which never happened. He was probably also jealous that Flynn saw the ISOs as something greater than programs - his "gift to the human world". Wise and naive at the same time. CLU took matters into his own hands and built an army to rally into the human world.

Flynn later confesses to CLU that he was wrong about his logic about "perfection" and admits that the flaw of CLU was that he built the perfect system based on Flynn's definition of perfection. He tells CLU that he wouldn't understand the impossibility of perfection because he as his creator also didn't understand it at the time he created him.

I guess one can conclude in this movie, CLU was flawed because his creator was flawed. Kinda makes me wonder how that relates to me as a flawed being and a creator who others claim is ALL PERFECT.