MERGED: FEDERAL DEMOCRACY: A solution to the sick country, the Philippines.

[Romeojin]

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Don't you know that some cities are considered municipalities under direct rule by the central government and have received funding disproportionate to their actual income? That's why if you go to Shanghai or Beijing you get a completely distorted picture of the real China. Try going to the regions and see how the people there are doing. Oh yea, so China is now the posterchild of centralization... It's not just a centralized state, it's a one-party dictatorship. But yea let's neglect to mention that. You want efficiency man kaha, how about no elections, and dictatorship? Isn't that the most efficient form of government?

the people are the government, if people would wish for reform they will have it. China is communist capitalist country and yet open kaayo sila to foreign investment kita dili. how can we compete when we restrict investment outside the country.

[Romeojin]

It's not a known fact. Define duplication. As I said it isn't duplication unless the offices are doing the exact same thing and catering to the exact same people. Merely having two offices of the same branch of government in different locations is not duplication. That happens in centralized systems too. Don't we have a BIR building there in Banilad, do you consider that duplication?? Explain clearly what is duplication, I find that you are misusing the term. Duplication means repeat work of the same thing, not similar work catering to different people. Get it?

And not having people have to go to manila to get final approval is exactly why federalism is more efficient in some respects than centralization and will reduce corruption. Thanks for proving my point.

duplication means naay branch ng BIR who heads the state and every state and naay pud mo head aning sa national level. in our present centralized system ang head ani tua sa central government in Manila, usa ra. kinsa man mo release sa budget sa federal level alangan ang central government.. federalism ba gihapon na lol.

I never said I don't believe in "duplication" in the state level because in the first place we haven't even arrived at an agreement on what duplication is. You seem to think that just because there are two or more offices of the same institution that there is already duplication. There's an LTO in Mandaue and there's an LTO in Cebu City.. is that duplication sir?

so asa man ning LTO offices mo report sa Manila lol, in a decentralized government naa gyud ning HQ sa state.

But it's still just a proposal, so this point is totally moot. If it's already under serious consideration and about to be passed as a law like that.. then you may have a point. And what's wrong with only having 8 congressmen from Cebu? Fewer politicians is better right? Have you proven that they have more government officials in a federal system than in a centralized one? We have over 300+ senators and congressmen in this country... what makes you think federalism will add more? That makes no sense to me...

unsa man check and balance kung gamay lang ang congressmen beh, mahulog gyud na sa corruption lol.

[RMK711]

what evidences, the study i posted looked on the situation in the US, mexico, spain etc no proof. and stop your anarchist view, its clear you dont care if Philippines breaks apart.

Splitting apart/ decentralization is a statement of selfishness between states.



There are no links in the net ive seen decentralization is cheaper than centralized government. paki post your proofs or links. you had no right to keep your views without proofs... fact..federal nations mas higher ang tax and government expenses.

You are the one who made the allegation that federalism is more expensive than centralized government, so you should be the one to prove what you said, since you are the one who brought it up. I wasn't the one who originally said federalism is more efficient than a republic.. it was you who said that it's more inefficient, hence you have to prove it not me. The study you posted doesn't prove anything. It shows the experience only of a few countries. How about a study that only shows the experience of messed up republics, ours included, then conclude that because of that centralized system is bad. See? Show me something better, that study is worth jack... and again I don't have to prove anything since I did not make the claim that federal is more efficient than republic. In fact if you look at my original posts I specifically said it is not about efficiency but about fairness.

And who the heck cares if I don't care if Philippines remains intact, that has nothing to do with the topic. Federalism doesn't mean the country will be broken apart, so stop your hysterics about that. There's no proof that federalism leads to separatism. Both republics and federal states can break apart but for reasons other than the system itself.

why compared it in the first place? you said federal sila and Bali is successful but you were wrong..
Indonesia share the same concern likes us yet they made it through cause of sound national economic policies.

Hahaha.. they "made it through"? Bali is so much better off than Indonesia, that's because they have real autonomy. I've already posted a paper that discusses that, read it and understand that their autonomy is in fact de facto federalism, and their autonomy is superior even to that implemented in Mindanao. Also understand that Indonesia is not a successful republic by any standard.

[RMK711]

If you want to point to a successful centralized government, you should cite Japan.

[masakiton]

If you want to point to a successful centralized government, you should cite Japan.

ang sytem depende ra sa mga taw nga nag pa dagan ana
mag ilis ta ug government system sa pilipinas pero mao ra gihapon ang mga corrupt and incompetent officials mag pa dagan ... same results

mga government officials (people) didto dili kaayo mga baga ug nawng
http://factsanddetails.com/japan.php...2&subcatid=146

during Lockheed Scandal, Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka was forced to resign in 1974 as a result or corruption allegations. In 1976, he was arrested for taking bribes in the scandal in which the aircraft maker Lockheed channeled funds to top officials in the Japanese government in return for their help in a deal to sell L-1011 Tri-Star jets to All Nippon Airways.

In July 2007, Defense Minster Fumio Kyuma was forced to resign because of criticism over remarks he made that the U.S. atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was justifiable and unavoidable. During a lecture he said, “I understand the bombings brought the war to an end, I think it was something that couldn’t be helped as it was aimed at preventing the Soviet Union from entering the war.” The gaffe reinforced the feelings that the Abe administration was inept.

In May 2007,Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries Minister Toshikatsi Matsuoka, committed suicide by hanging himself at a housing complex used by lawmakers in Tokyo. He had been criticized by the opposition for dubious uses of his office expenses and questionable spending by an association he was affiliated with. Before the suicide he was scheduled to face tough questions on the spending of $240,000 over five years on water, heating and other expenses that are provided free to lawmakers and his claim that the money had been spent on “some kind of deoxidized water.” It was the first time since World War II that an acting cabinet minister committed suicide.

[unsay_ngalan_nimo]

Exactly but what makes you think I believe Federalism will ever happen in this country? I said many times that I don't believe it will ever happen here, exactly because of what you said. That does not affect the merits of Federalism, it merely means that our incompetence and lack of education is going to cause us to keep using the present system. What I mean to say is, it's too bad Federalism will never happen in this country, because it is a good system that works. You are confusing the merits of a system, with the ability of a people to understand it. Just because the masa won't understand, doesn't mean it's a bad system, it just means it won't happen, get it?

Who am I, I'm a Filipino who lives here and so I knows that most people are not educated enough to understand federalism. Also, most people in this forum are highly educated and still there are people who have misconceptions about it. So who are you? And again, what country do you think you're living in? Be realistic man...

when democracy was introduced to the philippines they said it will be really good for us... but the truth is democracy was never that "good" for us... because we took the concept from a different culture... we think of what is good as what has been good for other states... without really looking at our own social dynamics.. our culture's weakness and strength and really philippines as a "nation"...

many believe that something "state made" is really something good for this country... without taking into consideration varying factors...

what kind of system that will work for us is a unique system that only we as nation will have to create.. will it be a federalist form a republican or hybrid... not unless it be studied as to its possible effects in totality and not just on per aspects.. it will be trial and error...

[Romeojin]

You are the one who made the allegation that federalism is more expensive than centralized government, so you should be the one to prove what you said, since you are the one who brought it up. I wasn't the one who originally said federalism is more efficient than a republic.. it was you who said that it's more inefficient, hence you have to prove it not me. The study you posted doesn't prove anything. It shows the experience only of a few countries. How about a study that only shows the experience of messed up republics, ours included, then conclude that because of that centralized system is bad. See? Show me something better, that study is worth jack... and again I don't have to prove anything since I did not make the claim that federal is more efficient than republic. In fact if you look at my original posts I specifically said it is not about efficiency but about fairness.

why dont you cite your references instead of talking rubbish. i dont need to prove anything its all over the net. we are talking about federalism here the main concern is the economy and that study proves it.. no positive relation between economic growth under decentralized system. why should we discuss economic growth with a centralized government OT na kaayo. The disadvantages of federalism outweighs the advantages thats the bottom-line.

And who the heck cares if I don't care if Philippines remains intact, that has nothing to do with the topic. Federalism doesn't mean the country will be broken apart, so stop your hysterics about that. There's no proof that federalism leads to separatism. Both republics and federal states can break apart but for reasons other than the system itself.

you dont care if the Philippines breaks apart lol. proof.. Malaysia-Singapore ; USSR ; Pakistan-Bangladesh, Siberia-Kosovo, etc. kung naa gyud ethnic minority naa gyud chance.. the Islamic region are craving for independence and we are fighting insurgencies all the time isnt that proof enough naa gyud chance? plus ni mention pa ka ng autonomy in Mindanao is not enough. you a muslim sir?

Hahaha.. they "made it through"? Bali is so much better off than Indonesia, that's because they have real autonomy. I've already posted a paper that discusses that, read it and understand that their autonomy is in fact de facto federalism, and their autonomy is superior even to that implemented in Mindanao. Also understand that Indonesia is not a successful republic by any standard.

but in comparison to us we lag behind cause they got better economic policies.

[Peace]

Unsa? Usbon nimo ang batasan sa tawo? Ang Pilipinas Catholic country na. pila na ka tuig nag sige balik2
ang mga pare sa ilang SERMON. wala man lagi ta na buotan. unya nag usab naka?

mao ning ingon ani gihapon ta tungod sa mga taw nga parehas nimo
di gustong mag-usab. abi, sila, wa mausab, di nalang sad ta mag-usab?

[Rajzh_niX]

Exactly but what makes you think I believe Federalism will ever happen in this country? I said many times that I don't believe it will ever happen here, exactly because of what you said. That does not affect the merits of Federalism, it merely means that our incompetence and lack of education is going to cause us to keep using the present system. What I mean to say is, it's too bad Federalism will never happen in this country, because it is a good system that works. You are confusing the merits of a system, with the ability of a people to understand it. Just because the masa won't understand, doesn't mean it's a bad system, it just means it won't happen, get it?

Who am I, I'm a Filipino who lives here and so I knows that most people are not educated enough to understand federalism. Also, most people in this forum are highly educated and still there are people who have misconceptions about it. So who are you? And again, what country do you think you're living in? Be realistic man...

I am still seeing the bright side of every Filipino that they will understand and highly educated people lik you claim to be will help them understand.....i, for once, love teaching people, share what i know to people you claim who don't understand...I'm a Filipino and will support what will be best for them...federalism is a good system but it will not help solve our current problems....so why bother waste money for another CHA-CHA and add our debt in the World Bank....to be realistic is to face what our problems are now than to suggest ways that can only complicate the problems we're facing....

[Rajzh_niX]

a federal state can be a republic state.....unitary siguro opposing federal...