MERGED: FEDERAL DEMOCRACY: A solution to the sick country, the Philippines.

[RMK711]

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that is why federalism in our current state may just lead to chaos and poverty esp nga ang mga tao mismo, for pila ka years, wa gihapon nagbag-o....dili ra baya ang economy ug politics ang basehan, apil baya ang society, ethnic groups, culture, and ang psychological effect sa mga tao....sa Cebu siguro daghan uyon ani as evidenced sa poll diri sa istorya, but how about other provinces.....

Hahaha, truth is most people don't care. What country do you think you're living in? Most people don't even know how to read/write at college level, so they wouldn't understand even the basic difference between federal and centralized government. So how can they form an opinion? They are too worried about the next meal. The people arguing here are better educated and don't represent most pinoys.. but even then there's a lot of misconception on what federalism really is, so it will be even worse when you try and explain it to most people...

[Rajzh_niX]

Hahaha, truth is most people don't care. What country do you think you're living in? Most people don't even know how to read/write at college level, so they wouldn't understand even the basic difference between federal and centralized government. So how can they form an opinion? They are too worried about the next meal. The people arguing here are better educated and don't represent most pinoys.. but even then there's a lot of misconception on what federalism really is, so it will be even worse when you try and explain it to most people...

that is why dili pwede ang federalism..it will only create confusion to all people....so you are selfish and only paying attention to your own needs...how about other people, they are a part of this country too....

[unsay_ngalan_nimo]

i know federalism have its good points... but i believe that it will only strengthen political families and therefore reinforce political dynasties... and bloodier elections and warring clans and the like... yup it will be another GG GUns and Goons...

we have few "nouveau riche" in this country and especially in the political side of the society which is really frustrating because this people dont know anything about the masses because they have never been part of the masses... and they portraying themselves as such....



its all play...

[Romeojin]

As there is no proof of this duplication, there is no need to address this comment.

what kind of decentralized system are you talking about in which each state is still dependent on the central government? if decentralization makes the state have greater control of its regions why would they let their people/official go to manila cause the department heads HQ is there? if taxation would favor the state what makes you think that the national government would had budget to maintain this departments? and btw this is a known fact duplication is present in all federal nations.

What makes you think that under a Federal government they won't be able to set priorities and adjust? What part of Federal still has a national government don't you understand exactly? Under the present system, what's to stop a stupid president from allocating all our budget to war and destroying this country? If there's a dengue outbreak in any region, that region would be able to handle itself, given that its taxes stay there rather than go elsewhere in the first place. So that point is moot.

this is contradictory to what you said. if you dont believe in duplication in state level how can they adjust? plus there are scenarios which state policy cannot overlap national policy.

It's just a proposal. There's no saying that a Federal system here must have 11 states. That's ridiculous, and it's nonesense to lambast the whole idea just based on the concept that someone suggested there should be 11 states. Australia is a much larger country and only has 3 main states, Victoria, NSW and Queensland (there are other minor states, called territories but they are small and they don't construct billion dollar capitol buildings in each state). If you ask me, the Philippines should retain the provincial structures, then there will be no need to construct new state capitols.

the proposal is well accepted by the federalists here and this proposal had been passed to the congress a lot of times. its not non sense its a fact, stop comparing pinas to australia. and you telling me to maintain provincial structures so each states, isnt that much more expensive.. even if we exclude government services, we need more congressmen alangan 8 congressmen lang mo amend sa law here sa cebu. more official to pay and to fund their projects.

[RMK711]

that is why dili pwede ang federalism..it will only create confusion to all people....so you are selfish and only paying attention to your own needs...how about other people, they are a part of this country too....

You can advocate something even if most people don't understand. Are you suggesting that we only implement policies and programs of government that most people in the country can understand? Then we would have to eliminate most of our programs since most people wouldn't understand them. Lets stop funding public universities, since most people can't attend university. Let's not build dams as most people don't understand what they are for. Let's get rid of the stock exchange and implement communism since most people don't understand markets. Just because people don't understand or are confused by a concept doesn't mean it isn't good.

Sometimes good leaders even have to implement unpopular policies to make the country better, does that mean they are selfish?

[masakiton]

Sometimes good leaders even have to implement unpopular policies to make the country better, does that mean they are selfish?

leaders = people
leaders = implement

the system is run by people
bad people can make a good system bad

[Rajzh_niX]

You can advocate something even if most people don't understand. Are you suggesting that we only implement policies and programs of government that most people in the country can understand? Then we would have to eliminate most of our programs since most people wouldn't understand them. Lets stop funding public universities, since most people can't attend university. Let's not build dams as most people don't understand what they are for. Let's get rid of the stock exchange and implement communism since most people don't understand markets. Just because people don't understand or are confused by a concept doesn't mean it isn't good.

Sometimes good leaders even have to implement unpopular policies to make the country better, does that mean they are selfish?

i am talking about federalism which includes charter change....a charter change involves three aspects which includes people's initiative...never wonder why the previous CHA-CHAs won't work because the people won't agree not because they don't understand....and who are you to tell that majority of the Filipinos do not understand....

[RMK711]

what kind of decentralized system are you talking about in which each state is still dependent on the central government? if decentralization makes the state have greater control of its regions why would they let their people/official go to manila cause the department heads HQ is there? if taxation would favor the state what makes you think that the national government would had budget to maintain this departments? and btw this is a known fact duplication is present in all federal nations.

It's not a known fact. Define duplication. As I said it isn't duplication unless the offices are doing the exact same thing and catering to the exact same people. Merely having two offices of the same branch of government in different locations is not duplication. That happens in centralized systems too. Don't we have a BIR building there in Banilad, do you consider that duplication?? Explain clearly what is duplication, I find that you are misusing the term. Duplication means repeat work of the same thing, not similar work catering to different people. Get it?

And not having people have to go to manila to get final approval is exactly why federalism is more efficient in some respects than centralization and will reduce corruption. Thanks for proving my point.

this is contradictory to what you said. if you dont believe in duplication in state level how can they adjust? plus there are scenarios which state policy cannot overlap national policy.

I never said I don't believe in "duplication" in the state level because in the first place we haven't even arrived at an agreement on what duplication is. You seem to think that just because there are two or more offices of the same institution that there is already duplication. There's an LTO in Mandaue and there's an LTO in Cebu City.. is that duplication sir?

the proposal is well accepted by the federalists here and this proposal had been passed to the congress a lot of times. its not non sense its a fact, stop comparing pinas to australia. and you telling me to maintain provincial structures so each states, isnt that much more expensive.. even if we exclude government services, we need more congressmen alangan 8 congressmen lang mo amend sa law here sa cebu. more official to pay and to fund their projects.

But it's still just a proposal, so this point is totally moot. If it's already under serious consideration and about to be passed as a law like that.. then you may have a point. And what's wrong with only having 8 congressmen from Cebu? Fewer politicians is better right? Have you proven that they have more government officials in a federal system than in a centralized one? We have over 300+ senators and congressmen in this country... what makes you think federalism will add more? That makes no sense to me...

[Romeojin]

There is evidence of regional economic growth though, which is where we are again back at square one. Why should we care only about national growth, we should care about the growth of our region, cities and towns, the people we care about who are close to us, and let those people who live farther away worry about themselves. Of course I'm not talking about being selfish in times of calamity, I'm speaking generally. Is there anything wrong with thinking regionally? I want my hometown Cebu to grow, even if Manila doesn't. What's wrong with that?

what evidences, the study i posted looked on the situation in the US, mexico, spain etc no proof. and stop your anarchist view, its clear you dont care if Philippines breaks apart.

Splitting apart/ decentralization is a statement of selfishness between states.

What you need to prove, firstly, is that a federal system is really more expensive than a state system. You can prove this if you show me that federal governments have a higher deficit or annual budget in running their country as a proportion of GDP than our so-called "efficient" centralized system that never fails to run a deficit every damned year and never fails to pass new taxes every term. Until then, I kindly ask that you stop saying that federalism is more inefficient than centralized government. You haven't proven it, so you've no right to keep repeating it.

There are no links in the net ive seen decentralization is cheaper than centralized government. paki post your proofs or links. you had no right to keep your views without proofs... fact..federal nations mas higher ang tax and government expenses.

Indonesia is still a very screwed up country, so what's your point?

why compared it in the first place? you said federal sila and Bali is successful but you were wrong..
Indonesia share the same concern likes us yet they made it through cause of sound national economic policies.

[RMK711]

i am talking about federalism which includes charter change....a charter change involves three aspects which includes people's initiative...never wonder why the previous CHA-CHAs won't work because the people won't agree not because they don't understand....and who are you to tell that majority of the Filipinos do not understand....

Exactly but what makes you think I believe Federalism will ever happen in this country? I said many times that I don't believe it will ever happen here, exactly because of what you said. That does not affect the merits of Federalism, it merely means that our incompetence and lack of education is going to cause us to keep using the present system. What I mean to say is, it's too bad Federalism will never happen in this country, because it is a good system that works. You are confusing the merits of a system, with the ability of a people to understand it. Just because the masa won't understand, doesn't mean it's a bad system, it just means it won't happen, get it?

Who am I, I'm a Filipino who lives here and so I knows that most people are not educated enough to understand federalism. Also, most people in this forum are highly educated and still there are people who have misconceptions about it. So who are you? And again, what country do you think you're living in? Be realistic man...