God is omnipotent and omniscient, all good, and merciful.

**The_Child** · 10-31-2009, 08:54 AM

the answer is simple.

petty human logic could not, of course, encompass God. its a mirror. man conceptualizes God and the proofs for God's existence are merely reflections of his own man-made concepts. there is nothing to prove when in the first place, it comes from you.

**thethird79** · 10-31-2009, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by chad_tukes

...and of course, this line ticks me. is this necessary? that's what Jesus or God or the Bible taught you? you sound too righteous here---yet you expect me to respond intelligently.

You are right... The Bible speaks of people who don't believe in God to enjoy fire at its worst temperature. (Sorry just to exaggerate things here. Truth is you can't underestimate God's providence and mercy). But what I posted earlier gives you a clue had you analyzed it well the possibility that a person who in his life been stubborn to believe in God can still enjoy heaven at its blissing moment. That's why I asked you, would you still accept the gift you once claimed as non-existent? It's free... theist or atheist...everyone.

Does that sound self-righteous to you?

**chad_tukes** · 10-31-2009, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by thethird79

When I say easy for you to grab it, it means how easy for you to switch and take back what you believed earlier. GETZ?

sorry, i don't get it, can you repeat it please?

**chad_tukes** · 10-31-2009, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by bluedes

@chad_tukes and @thethird79

I've no intention taking sides.. I'm not an atheist, but I dont buy into popular religions having a savior/messiah either..

Yet anyway, I can see the point where thethird79 is making..
by virtue of your unbelief, you wouldn't accept the million dollars at all because it never existed in the first place for you. Why would you accept a million dollars now? (or in this case, accept entry to heaven now) There's no such thing as a million dollars even if it was presented right in your face..

The absence of a belief is pretty much unbelief... which makes it hypocritical... but if you were to take a middle ground, like say its okay if a God existed, and okay if it did not, then I'd probably understand why you would accept the million dollars. The thing is, you're not in the middle ground.. thus I'm also curious why you would decide to accept the million dollars after all?

that's the difference of THEN and NOW. there was no million dollars (or in this case, GOD) THEN because, in this situation, i "never" believed in the million dollars (i'm interchanging "dollars" and "GOD" here, so i apologize in advance if it may sound confusing), but NOW that the million dollars is presented to my face, i now know it exists (physically), and if it was given to me, i have the choice to accept it or not. since it is a choice, i would choose to accept the million dollars. imo, that isn't hypocritical. just for the record, in a scale of 1-10 (10 being a strong atheist), i put myself on 7 or 8. i consider myself atheist-agnostic (i've posted it months ago in another thread).

so just to make it clear---if i see GOD face to face (and i am 100% sure he EXISTS), then i would welcome him because I KNOW HE EXIST----just like the million dollar analogy.

**chad_tukes** · 10-31-2009, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by thethird79

You are right... The Bible speaks of people who don't believe in God to enjoy fire at its worst temperature. (Sorry just to exaggerate things here. Truth is you can't underestimate God's providence and mercy). But what I posted earlier gives you a clue had you analyzed it well the possibility that a person who in his life been stubborn to believe in God can still enjoy heaven at its blissing moment. That's why I asked you, would you still accept the gift you once claimed as non-existent? It's free... theist or atheist...everyone.

Does that sound self-righteous to you?

so are you suggesting that, because you believe in GOD while you are in this physical world, that you are more deserving of HEAVEN? again and again, i already gave my answer. GETZ? geez... i hate when people like you make it sound like we don't have a choice, and that we HAVE to believe in GOD. as for myself, i don't make quick conclusions. i don't know about you.

**bluedes** · 10-31-2009, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by chad_tukes

that's the difference of THEN and NOW. there was no million dollars (or in this case, GOD) THEN because, in this situation, i "never" believed in the million dollars (i'm interchanging "dollars" and "GOD" here, so i apologize in advance if it may sound confusing), but NOW that the million dollars is presented to my face, i now know it exists (physically), and if it was given to me, i have the choice to accept it or not. since it is a choice, i would choose to accept the million dollars. imo, that isn't hypocritical. just for the record, in a scale of 1-10 (10 being a strong atheist), i put myself on 7 or 8. i consider myself atheist-agnostic (i've posted it months ago in another thread).

so just to make it clear---if i see GOD face to face (and i am 100% sure he EXISTS), then i would welcome him because I KNOW HE EXIST----just like the million dollar analogy.

actually, that pretty much makes you hypocritical on your belief.. you stronlgy believe that God does not exist, or if you want to paraphrase that, you don't believe that God exists, and after all these years, you come face to face with God in an instant, how would you gauge you're 100% sure he exists? what if its still an illusion? are u that quick to throw away your initial belief that God does not exist?

anyway, this is not my argument.. i'm just following along thethird79's post..

**chad_tukes** · 10-31-2009, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by bluedes

actually, that pretty much makes you hypocritical on your belief.. you stronlgy believe that God does not exist, or if you want to paraphrase that, you don't believe that God exists, and after all these years, you come face to face with God in an instant, how would you gauge you're 100% sure he exists? what if its still an illusion? are u that quick to throw away your initial belief that God does not exist?

anyway, this is not my argument.. i'm just following along thethird79's post..

we could not be so sure. the question that thethird79 posted is a hypothetical one, thus, i responded with the appropriate answer... and i consider GOD as a hypothesis. i hope that explains it further. but anyway, that is your (and thethird79) opinion. obviously our views are different.

**regnauld** · 10-31-2009, 11:05 AM

Are you sure guys that you exist? prove IT! HAHAHAHA

**SPRINGFIELD_XD_40** · 10-31-2009, 11:31 AM

OT @ CHAD ...

WHy dont you give yourself a shot on the spiritual side .... that 20 % to 30 % hehehe ....

**chad_tukes** · 10-31-2009, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by SPRINGFIELD_XD_40

OT @ CHAD ...

WHy dont you give yourself a shot on the spiritual side .... that 20 % to 30 % hehehe ....

if it isn't required then i'm not obliged to.

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