Vajrayana-The Path Royale

[Homo_quaeritans]

Theosophy confirmed to me that even before I attended the Theosophical Society. HPB is not a guru and HPB is not our guru. Each one of us is a guru sharing our experiences and studying esoteric wisdom from the ageless wisdom and I don't follow any guru.

what do you mean Theosophy confirmed to me? whether you ackowledge HPB or not she is still your guru. Under her guidance your society was founded. The Secret Doctrine and Isis Unveiled is her contribution to the esoteric community and true blooded member of theosophical Society have read her works and treat these documents as guides in their quest for truth.

LIFE itself is my guru...yes and not a person! Why do you have to insist that we should need a guru to teach us to be enlightened when in fact life itself is a guru?

its not me that is insisting but history. Every great Illumined Soul had a guru.

i think you have forgotten the day where you have read books and articles about theosophy or mysticism, those books my friend and all the wisdom you have found in those literature came from the ancient wisdom handed down from one guru to another.

What do you mean hypothetical? Is it impossible to be enlightened if we don't have a guru? I beg to disagree my friend.

you know what hypothetical is.

[freelancers13]

ok...let me ask you. Who was the guru of Gautama Buddha?

Those who taught him how to meditate.

[Homo_quaeritans]

ok...let me ask you. Who was the guru of Gautama Buddha?

havent you read about his life? the guy who explained to him about suffering,sickness,old age, death i believe was his first guru. then after that many gurus came to teach him. these gurus pointed the way for gautama to find his way to enlightenment. where do you think did he get the idea of sitting under a tree and meditate? from gurus.

[regnauld]

what do you mean Theosophy confirmed to me? whether you ackowledge HPB or not she is still your guru. Under her guidance your society was founded. The Secret Doctrine and Isis Unveiled is her contribution to the esoteric community and true blooded member of theosophical Society have read her works and treat these documents as guides in their quest for truth.



its not me that is insisting but history. Every great Illumined Soul had a guru.

i think you have forgotten the day where you have read books and articles about theosophy or mysticism, those books my friend and all the wisdom you have found in those literature came from the ancient wisdom handed down from one guru to another.




you know what hypothetical is.

Ok let us resolve our difference.

Theosophy confirmed to me what I found are TRUTHS like SILENCE and MEDITATION. No one had taught me to be silent and no one had taught me to meditate. Can you blame me for that?

HPB was the founder of the modern day Theosophy but we don't call her guru and we don't follow her as our guru. I hope this is clear to you.

Ok every illumined soul has a guru only at the first level but on the highest level they discard any gurus and teachers like J. Krishnamurti and others.

You have a point. Those wisdom are handed down from one master to another but did those masters and mystics need followers? NO. Theosophy does not urge to follow a certain guru or path of enlightenment. We are here to first, Read and Study, second Meditate and the last is to Serve Humanity.

Well, my friend in my reflection and meditation...I've found out that a teacher or a guru is just a crutch or religion and I have transcended any form of religion because NO RELIGION IS HIGHER THAN TRUTH.

[regnauld]

havent you read about his life? the guy who explained to him about suffering,sickness,old age, death i believe was his first guru. then after that many gurus came to teach him. these gurus pointed the way for gautama to find his way to enlightenment. where do you think did he get the idea of sitting under a tree and meditate? from gurus.

And who was responsible for his enlightenment? His gurus?

This is my point to resolve our difference. Ultimately, we are responsible for our enlightenment and no one else. Anyone can point to the moon but that is not the moon (TRUTH)

[freelancers13]

Point taken. The Masters are there to guide us and they cannot achieve enlightenment for us. Ultimately it is a personal journey. Practice makes perfect di ba? Not Guru makes perfect.

Our point: The Gurus are important because they teach us what to practice to achieve enlightenment.

[regnauld]

Point taken. The Masters are there to guide us and they cannot achieve enlightenment for us. Ultimately it is a personal journey. Practice makes perfect di ba? Not Guru makes perfect.

Our point: The Guru is important because they teach us what to practice to achieve enlightenment.

Thank you my friend!


I respect your views. Yes those masters and gurus are important and it is we who are ultimately responbsible for our EVOLUTION and ENLIGHTENMENT!

NAMASTE!

[Homo_quaeritans]

Ok let us resolve our difference.

Theosophy confiremd to me what I found are TRUTHS like SILENCE and MEDITATION. No one had taught me to be silent and no one had taught me to meditate. Can you blame me for that?

im sure you read it somewhere reg. Zen does that too. don't forget your past lives reg. i hope you believe in reincarnation.

HPB was the founder of the modern day Theosophy but we don't call her guru and we don't follow her as our guru. I hope this is clear to you.

technically maybe but for it to be official you must discard The Secret dcotrine and Isis Unveiled from your library and stop looking for guides or answers from those books and don't ever quote it again.

TS members owes a lot from HPB especially the west, pls dont take it away from her. Your lineage is authentic because of her. She is your guru.

Ok every illumined soul has a guru only at the first level but on the highest level they discard any gurus and teachers like J. Krishnamurti and others.

partly correct. So are you now on the highest level? hmmm...if not then you need a guru.

Illumined souls as I believe are freed from being a disciple.

You have a point. Those wisdom are handed down from one master to another but did those masters and mystics need followers? NO. Theosophy does not urge to follow a certain guru or path of enlightenment. We are here to first, Read and Study, second Meditate and the last is to Serve Humanity.

leave the topic as is. don't touch the issue of having the need of followers. thats not the point at hand.

Well, my friend in my reflection and meditation...I've found out that a teacher or a guru is just a crutch or religion and I have transcended any form of religion because NO RELIGION IS HIGHER THAN TRUTH.

having a guru is a crutch? maybe. an ignorant or illusioned souls need a guide.

having a guru is religion? maybe to some but not here in this Order.

its getting late reg...i need some sleep.

let me leave you this thought...don't over intellectualise the whole process towards enlightenment, listen to those who have been there and most importantly get some experience before you give your own thought about it. and it goes the same for me.

but wait a minute...are you Illumined na ba? if the answer is yes then everything you said here is right. then im sorry for being ignorant.

[Homo_quaeritans]

And who was responsible for his enlightenment? His gurus?

This is my point to resolve our difference. Ultimately, we are responsible for our enlightenment and no one else. Anyone can point to the moon but that is not the moon (TRUTH)

its a partnership regnauld. his gurus were partly responsible.

and you wouldnt know the moon if no one points it for you.

[Homo_quaeritans]

Point taken. The Masters are there to guide us and they cannot achieve enlightenment for us. Ultimately it is a personal journey. Practice makes perfect di ba? Not Guru makes perfect.

Our point: The Guru is important because they teach us what to practice to achieve enlightenment.

i'll settle with this.

right, gurus they teach us what to practice to achieve enlghtenment because they've been there.