No Longer Under a LAW?

[Malic]

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yeah, true. and according to christianity he repented and changed his ways.

God repented? where did you get that? Sir get your facts straight.

[Malic]

Jesus in the new testament summarizes the law as 2.

1. Love for God

2. Love for Neighbor

he said these two are the summary of the entire law.

and he promulgated a new covenant whose laws are not written in stones but in the heart of men.

so it is obvious that it is not the mosaic law.

i would summarized christianity's basic teaching in these 2 words.

self-examination and self-sacrifice.

this is the theme of the new testament...

point to yourselves, examine your hearts and don't blame your neighbors for whatever actions you do, be responsible. when your neighbor say something wrong to you, examine yourself, you might have done something that made him so mad. and if he had sinned against you, forgive him more than 70 times.

if your eyes sinned, pluck it out and don't blame your neighbor for being unveiled in your presence.
flee from temptations. when a women is unveiled in your presence and you feel like having *** with her, don't give in to your lust then blame it on the women because they showed too much skin. blame it on yourselves for being weak and for being a sinner.

examine yourselves and sacrifice your life for Love so they would know you are from God.

kung tamparuson ka, ipatamparus pud ang pikas aron mahibalo sila na gikan mo sa langit kay mga but-an ug mahigugmaon mo.

that is why the new testament is a good book because its adherents are taught love, peace and tolerance. i see no violence for their neighbors. many verses talks about self-examination and self sacrifice. don't blame your neighbors for your sins. blame yourselves why you give in to sin. and even if someone lead you to sin, forgive that person for god's sake and don't justify killing your neighbor for serving you dinuguan. that is the basic teaching of the new testament.

Sir FYI, the Jerusalem church,the church where most of Jesus' apostles and early followers belong still followed the mosaic law,specially James. They had serious and doctrinal conflict with Pauline theology,you can see it in the bible where The Jews argued about eating blood and circumcision because Paul allowed the gentiles to eat blood and preach that circumcision have no value,posing contradictions to Mosaic laws.

As years went by,the Jerusalem church's power and authority diminished as the Pauline Gentile church
rise to power then eventually accused the Jerusalem church,the first original church,as heretics for not following Pauline theology.

With that in mind sir...the new testament that christians have now isnt exactly what the early followers of Jesus(jerusalem church) have in mind. I bet that if they were alive today they would reject most if not all,the theologies found in Pauline writings.


Whats my point? I believe that the early church before Paul followed the Mosaic law w/c Jesus encouraged them to do so. In other words Jesus never came here to abolish the law but rather encouraged them to follow it.

Jesus did not change the law but rather he gave a summary of that law. We find Jesus quoting Mosaic law disprvoing any allegation of abolishing the law.

Jesus also said that he came not to bring peace but a SWORD and divisions. Then in the temple,he was outraged to see merchants inside and started turning the tables and demolishing stores,like how the MMDA's demolished the bangketas. Very peaceful? give a second look again and read those verses pls sir.

If he was very merciful and a great advocate of peace then why didnt he approached the vendors gently and used diplomacy instead of violence? Thne if he is really and advocate of peace then why did he said that "I(jesus) came here not to bring peace but a SWORD and divisions. and why would he say that one has to PLUCK out ones eye if one commit sin? thats a violent solution sir.

[newtonscousin]

Of course, I don't like to blame you if your definition of love is to be MECHANICALLY OBEDIENT. instead of "So love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' (Mark 12:30).



You're verse-quoting not context-quoting so you're taking those verses rather INCORRECTLY. Jesus was not at all referring to the Mosaic Law. John 14:15 is the Commandment of Love, not Moses' Law neither John 15:10 for it speaks on Jesus love and compliance to the will (not the Mosaic Law) of the Father and the command of Jesus to love one another:

Read up John 15:9-14

9"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command. 15I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

When Jesus said “If you love Me, keep My commandments” John 14:15 He gives us an obvious point of what commandments He was talking about. In Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus says “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”“Hang all the laws and the prophets” The 10 commandments found in Exodus 20 are God’s everlasting moral law.

These are the same commandments of which Jesus spoke of for if you read the 10 commandments through you will find that the first four laws deal with our relationship with God, and the last 6 laws deal with our relationship with our fellow humans. Please see Exodus 20. To fulfill the first 4 will be to show God that we love Him, and to fulfill the last 6 will show that we love our neighbor also. What Christ did was that He summarized the 10 laws into two. Everyone at the time of Christ knew the 10 commandments to the letter because it was a part of their identity. Jesus did not need to recite them for they were already fully known. However, with time the Jews had perverted the true meaning of what the 10 commandments meant and no longer kept them in the light that it proves our love to God and those around us. So by stating these two summaries of the 10 Jesus was reminding them of the true meaning of obedience to God’s laws. It all revolves around love. So these are the laws Jesus was talking about when He said “If you love Me, keep My commandments”.

The whole issue here is of OBEDIENCE. Do we love God enough to do exactly what He has asked?

Jesus again said:
John 14:21 - He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

now, if we don't believe what Jesus said of showing our love to Him and understanding this like "MECHANICALLY OBEDIENT", then how?

[brownprose]

When Jesus said “If you love Me, keep My commandments” John 14:15 He gives us an obvious point of what commandments He was talking about. In Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus says “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”“Hang all the laws and the prophets” The 10 commandments found in Exodus 20 are God’s everlasting moral law.

These are the same commandments of which Jesus spoke of for if you read the 10 commandments through you will find that the first four laws deal with our relationship with God, and the last 6 laws deal with our relationship with our fellow humans. Please see Exodus 20. To fulfill the first 4 will be to show God that we love Him, and to fulfill the last 6 will show that we love our neighbor also. What Christ did was that He summarized the 10 laws into two. Everyone at the time of Christ knew the 10 commandments to the letter because it was a part of their identity. Jesus did not need to recite them for they were already fully known. However, with time the Jews had perverted the true meaning of what the 10 commandments meant and no longer kept them in the light that it proves our love to God and those around us. So by stating these two summaries of the 10 Jesus was reminding them of the true meaning of obedience to God’s laws. It all revolves around love. So these are the laws Jesus was talking about when He said “If you love Me, keep My commandments”.

The whole issue here is of OBEDIENCE. Do we love God enough to do exactly what He has asked?

Jesus again said:
John 14:21 - He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

now, if we don't believe what Jesus said of showing our love to Him and understanding this like "MECHANICALLY OBEDIENT", then how?

I don't wish to correct you with a barrage of verses because you've made your mind already. It's pointless and taxing to compare theologies or argue what a verse means 'coz I know you've been told by your pastor already that it supposed to mean or read that way and fyi I am not an adherent of sola scriptura (although i taught once about it before).

But I would like to point nonetheless on the matter of obedience. Obedience to the law is a SUPERFICIAL and ARTIFICIAL form of connection/relation because you're merely COMPLYING but not BUILDING a special relationship with your God. Why? because you just simply follow orders lest you go to the hot place. That's why I said the law makes one MECHANICALLY OBEDIENT or if i may add PERFUNCTORILY OBEDIENT out of fear than of sincere devotion. Mura'g "alright I will follow the law kay ma impyerno unya ko."

If you truly love your God, you will just do what you're suppose to. Or it comes out naturally in you. God doesn't count by the amount of orders you follow it comes by how much you truly feel for him that's why Jesus emphasized Love as the greatest commandment because it bears no stigma of perfunctory/mechanical obedience but one that is built on the sincerity of intentions.

If Peter was mechanically obedient, he would have not denied Jesus thrice. Though Jesus knew how Peter would deny him, but from Peter's heart he knew how Peter loved him. The point is you don't need to be legalistic to be justified before God.

Finally, this is how obedience would make you look like.
Luke 18:9-14 ~ "Two men went up to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: God, I thank you that I am not like other men .--robbers, evil doers, adulterers --or even like the tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get. But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breasts and said, "God, have mercy on me, a sinner." I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

[tribu]

Sir FYI, the Jerusalem church,the church where most of Jesus' apostles and early followers belong still followed the mosaic law,specially James. They had serious and doctrinal conflict with Pauline theology,you can see it in the bible where The Jews argued about eating blood and circumcision because Paul allowed the gentiles to eat blood and preach that circumcision have no value,posing contradictions to Mosaic laws.

As years went by,the Jerusalem church's power and authority diminished as the Pauline Gentile church
rise to power then eventually accused the Jerusalem church,the first original church,as heretics for not following Pauline theology.

With that in mind sir...the new testament that christians have now isnt exactly what the early followers of Jesus(jerusalem church) have in mind. I bet that if they were alive today they would reject most if not all,the theologies found in Pauline writings.


Whats my point? I believe that the early church before Paul followed the Mosaic law w/c Jesus encouraged them to do so. In other words Jesus never came here to abolish the law but rather encouraged them to follow it.

Jesus did not change the law but rather he gave a summary of that law. We find Jesus quoting Mosaic law disprvoing any allegation of abolishing the law.

Jesus also said that he came not to bring peace but a SWORD and divisions. Then in the temple,he was outraged to see merchants inside and started turning the tables and demolishing stores,like how the MMDA's demolished the bangketas. Very peaceful? give a second look again and read those verses pls sir.

If he was very merciful and a great advocate of peace then why didnt he approached the vendors gently and used diplomacy instead of violence? Thne if he is really and advocate of peace then why did he said that "I(jesus) came here not to bring peace but a SWORD and divisions. and why would he say that one has to PLUCK out ones eye if one commit sin? thats a violent solution sir.

the new testament is clear that jesus gave a new covenant and though the jewish followers of jesus did for a time continued to follow some of the jewish mosaic laws they have already rejected many of those that are considered violent. the best example was the gospel narration of the woman whose sin of adultery is punishable by stoning under the jewish law but was saved by jesus because he challenged those who had no sin to cast the first stone. and these examples of the gospel narrations by disciples of jesus showed a very clear separation of what is jewish mosaic law and what is the new christian teachings of love, mercy and compassion. jewish law was strict and the woman should not have been exempted from being punished by such law but jesus challenge the jewish mosaic law in this instance. a clear sign of such separation and yet he himself had to fulfill the requirement of such law in order to have the power to negotiate a new one with his own blood.

yes, plucking one's eyes is violent solution but such action is not violence towards one's neighbor but towards one's own self. thus, such religion is still peaceful because it seeks no harms towards its neighbors and if you are intelligent enough to understand the way the sentence was constructed it is clearly an idoimatic expression with the words "it is better..." which is the same as "let those who had no sin casts the first stone."

now, compare those teachings with islam. read the quran and the hadith. the theme would be... "subdue or kill your neighbors because they are kufars and dhimmis..", "blame the kufars and the dhimmis and blame the women."

while christianity's teaching would be "subdue yourselves", "subdue your lust", "you are sinners", "do not blame your neighbors, blame yourselves."

to those who really want to know the religion. read the quran and the hadith, everyone who wants to really know the truth, read the sacred books of these religions and make your comparisons. the ball is now in your hands. educate yourselves and stop fooling yourselves by listening to the propaganda and deceptions of the religion's clerics and adherents.

[Malic]

the new testament is clear that jesus gave a new covenant and though the jewish followers of jesus did for a time continued to follow some of the jewish mosaic laws they have already rejected many of those that are considered violent. the best example was the gospel narration of the woman whose sin of adultery is punishable by stoning under the jewish law but was saved by jesus because he challenged those who had no sin to cast the first stone. and these examples of the gospel narrations by disciples of jesus showed a very clear separation of what is jewish mosaic law and what is the new christian teachings of love, mercy and compassion. jewish law was strict and the woman should not have been exempted from being punished by such law but jesus challenge the jewish mosaic law in this instance. a clear sign of such separation and yet he himself had to fulfill the requirement of such law in order to have the power to negotiate a new one with his own blood.

yes, plucking one's eyes is violent solution but such action is not violence towards one's neighbor but towards one's own self. thus, such religion is still peaceful because it seeks no harms towards its neighbors and if you are intelligent enough to understand the way the sentence was constructed it is clearly an idoimatic expression with the words "it is better..." which is the same as "let those who had no sin casts the first stone."

now, compare those teachings with islam. read the quran and the hadith. the theme would be... "subdue or kill your neighbors because they are kufars and dhimmis..", "blame the kufars and the dhimmis and blame the women."

while christianity's teaching would be "subdue yourselves", "subdue your lust", "you are sinners", "do not blame your neighbors, blame yourselves."

to those who really want to know the religion. read the quran and the hadith, everyone who wants to really know the truth, read the sacred books of these religions and make your comparisons. the ball is now in your hands. educate yourselves and stop fooling yourselves by listening to the propaganda and deceptions of the religion's clerics and adherents.

psst dont bring Islam here this is a different thread.


well you obviousy neclegted the part where Jesus said, i came not to bring peace but a Sword, well never mind. I know where you are going.

[newtonscousin]

I don't wish to correct you with a barrage of verses because you've made your mind already. It's pointless and taxing to compare theologies or argue what a verse means 'coz I know you've been told by your pastor already that it supposed to mean or read that way and fyi I am not an adherent of sola scriptura (although i taught once about it before).

But I would like to point nonetheless on the matter of obedience. Obedience to the law is a SUPERFICIAL and ARTIFICIAL form of connection/relation because you're merely COMPLYING but not BUILDING a special relationship with your God. Why? because you just simply follow orders lest you go to the hot place. That's why I said the law makes one MECHANICALLY OBEDIENT or if i may add PERFUNCTORILY OBEDIENT out of fear than of sincere devotion. Mura'g "alright I will follow the law kay ma impyerno unya ko."

If you truly love your God, you will just do what you're suppose to. Or it comes out naturally in you. God doesn't count by the amount of orders you follow it comes by how much you truly feel for him that's why Jesus emphasized Love as the greatest commandment because it bears no stigma of perfunctory/mechanical obedience but one that is built on the sincerity of intentions.

If Peter was mechanically obedient, he would have not denied Jesus thrice. Though Jesus knew how Peter would deny him, but from Peter's heart he knew how Peter loved him. The point is you don't need to be legalistic to be justified before God.

hmmm.. bro, haven't you read the story about Abraham? your views sound opposite to what the story shows, right?

Abraham felt sad. He had waited so long for a son, and he didn't want to give Isaac away. But Abraham Obeyed God.

What did God said to Abraham?
Genesis 22:18 - and through your offspring [b] all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have Obeyed Me."

it simply emphasize that Obedience is a sign of Loving God.

if you were Abraham? could you do such and obey God without Love?

Finally, this is how obedience would make you look like.
Luke 18:9-14 ~ "Two men went up to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: God, I thank you that I am not like other men .--robbers, evil doers, adulterers --or even like the tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get. But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breasts and said, "God, have mercy on me, a sinner." I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

it's another story brother and it's all about "Presumptuous". if you may read the Bible there's a lot of lines regarding presumptuous.

God Bless.

[bcasabee]

@newton bro. brownprose is obviously not ignorant of the Bible and its also very obvious that you're not his equal in matters of the Bible or religious knowledge in general. It would better to ask and listen to him and your pastor for clarifications. Sorry, I just feel like watching a glimpse of Pacquiao versus De la hoya fight when I read your counter posts. Dec 6, I wonder what will happen during the fight.

[Pein]

psst dont bring Islam here this is a different thread.


well you obviousy neclegted the part where Jesus said, i came not to bring peace but a Sword, well never mind. I know where you are going.

ipadayon ang pagbasa ayawg hunong sa verse 34 diba makasabot lagi nganong nakaingon si Cristo ana...

Mat 10:34 Do not have the thought that I have come to send peace on the earth; I came not to send peace but a sword.

Mat 10:35 For I have come to put a man against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law:

Mat 10:36 And a man will be hated by those of his house.

Mat 10:37 He who has more love for his father or mother than for me is not good enough for me; he who has more love for son or daughter than for me is not good enough for me.

[NASYO]

Mat 10:34 Do not have the thought that I have come to send peace on the earth; I came not to send peace but a sword.

pastilan oi.. manigbas na sad nang imong kristo?