SONA ni GMA 2008

[omad]

---

Baseless you say?

ever wonder why you prefer to live in NYC rather than in pinas where all of your friends and relatives are here? it's because our government are mostly corrupt, employment with a decent pay is a scarce.

I actually had a very decent job when I worked in Cebu... with a very decent pay. I would have had a managerial position in an oil company right about now if I decided to stay. so leaving Cebu for NYC has got nothing to do with whatever you just speculated: corrupt government, employment with decent pay is scarce etc etc...

I'm not the type of person who blames everything and everyone but himself.


again, giving sweeping statements and generalizations won't do you no good. why don't you analyze your thoughts before posting them here so you won't look like a typical sour-grape. blame the government, blame the country, blame the politicians. who else gets the blame next?

[cdburgh]

no matter how wide we open our eyes, each and everyone of us here in the forums are limited to the areas we routinely scour daily and that's a fact. Mandaue, Mactan, Cebu City or even the whole Visayas group of islands is not the whole 7,107 islands of the Philippines. so that means, both your experiences and observations (@omar and @cdburgh) are not representative of the whole 90M Filipinos, hence the need to support your claims with actual verifiable numbers.

I just find it funny whenever I hear someone say "that there are more people who are suffering today" compared to such and such. why? have you been to every single home of the close to 90,000,000 Filipinos? what's the basis for the comparison? what's the number of those "suffering" before and the current number now? lay it down here and let's compare. 'coz if we'll just talk our bungholes out without facts, figures and statistics to back it up, then what's the difference between this conversation we're having and those that frequently occur in your suking talipapa?

nothing, nada, zilch... everything said will all boil done to these words: speculation and hearsay

it is just funny for you to believe that the situation here has gone better. you're not even here to see that, it is even much funnier for someone living outside of the country to say that. don't be so naive to believe every numbers that the government tell you, we all know that somehow they manipulate the numbers. why, have you also gone house to house of all the 90 M Filipnos to be so convinced that their lives have improve. your views does not also represent all the filipinos, not even mine.

what is wrong with you is that when you hear people say their observation about the situation, you immediately judge them as sour graping or complaining. welll some just remain quiet and leave the country.

you seem to be so confident about your basis. show me your numbers and perhaps i will be convinced to change my mind about the situation here. give us your comparison so all of us here can be enlightened.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

I still don't get your point, but anyway, I belong to the middle class and working my way to gain more than what I have now. I am not rich nor poor ha......para magkasinabot tang duha.

Hehehe ... there you go . Now when you say gaining more , you are heading towards become RICHER and not POORER right ? Although that is a concept of nothing in between but ikaw ra ang ni hisgut mismo that you are in th MIDDLE CLASS family . SO what happened now ?

Ang ginamos bai kay bahong giti, nag tuo diay ka gipahid na sa giti? Ingon man gud ka "Dili na siya manimahong OKOK kug waly OKOK" so ako huwaman imong logic, dili na manimahong giti kong walay giti right?...hahaha

Wrong .... simhot kuno ug GITI bahong GINAMOS ba and vice versa , what you are trying to tell me here is an EXPRESSION . Now if the case of the NFA rice is bahong OKOK ... so EXPRESSION ra diay na ? In short nothing is WRONG with it kay expression ra man kaha na . Ang pagkaon ma agi-an ug OKOK manimaho man gyud na ug okok .

Wala lagi ko mag hisgot ug syndicated crimes, ang ako pasabot kay Petty Crimes. Ngano man imo ipa prove nako, wala man sa ako ang burden of proof, kamo may first nag claim nga naa daghan petty crimes sa HK compared to pinas.

Not entirely HK but other countries as well to include 1st world nations . I already gave you a first hand experience for you to digest since its only a personal claim . True the burden proof doesnt lie on you untill you said MINIMAL lang ang PETTY CRIMES sa HK .... then prove that .

What is your point exactly?

Your logic seems offtrack, GMA was not discrediting her detractors in her "I am Sorry" speech intawn oi. She was defending her thrown because she talked to Garci while election count is on-going, then iya gigamit ang imong gi discredit na SWS survey para pag prove "kuno" na cya ang naka daug "kuno".

And you entirely believed that it is not POLITCIALLY MOTIVATED ? Hehehe ... I am not discounting anything from PGMA to SWS , but you have to grasp the idea that in this game you to play it right otherwise you will be eaten alive . Just dont assumed that because I dont believed in SWS if its against PGMA doesnt mean mo tuo ko sa SWS kung pabor ni PGMA pod .

Dont twist it bai, it literally means this administration is a failure and you know it.

The way you see it , YES . The way I see it maybe just to incline what you think but she has ACCOMPLISHED so much that even her detractors can probably only dream of accomplishing it .

BTW ... dont resort to generalization , we'll point it out piece by piece and since you mentioned about HUNGRY MOUTHS ... we'll start there . Do you know why they are hungry ? Please discount FOOD PRICES went up . Ako ug ikaw lage wala man magutom .

@CDBURGH ....

Mao na paga ingnon na kung wala gi balay balay sa 1 ka tao na naa pa gud sa gawas sa nasod ga puyo , gi unsa man pod ninyo pag come up ug conclusion na walay IMPROVEMENT sa kinabuhi sa mga PILIPINO ?

[omad]

it is just funny for you to believe that the situation here has gone better. you're not even here to see that, it is even much funnier for someone living outside of the country to say that. don't be so naive to believe every numbers that the government tell you, we all know that somehow they manipulate the numbers. why, have you also gone house to house of all the 90 M Filipnos to be so convinced that their lives have improve. your views does not also represent all the filipinos, not even mine.

don't try twisting the issue and refrain from forcing words into my mouth: you were the one who said "there are more people suffering right now". how quick of you to forget. besides, I never said "the situation got better", all I asked was statistics to support your claim. and here you are prodding me not to believe every numbers the government churns out but at the same time, YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN ME ANY to support your claim? ironic isn't it?

and stop using my example of the 90M population, you know and everybody else knows that I used that figure to dispel your baseless generalization. stop being a copy-cat, make your own argument.

so stop going around in circles and give me the numbers I've been asking from you since my first post.

what is wrong with you is that when you hear people say their observation about the situation, you immediately judge them as sour graping or complaining. welll some just remain quiet and leave the country.

what's wrong is when somebody asks you to back-up your conclusion: "that more people are suffering now" and here you are giving me a run around. go ahead prove your case, I'm waiting.

you seem to be so confident about your basis. show me your numbers and perhaps i will be convinced to change my mind about the situation here. give us your comparison so all of us here can be enlightened.

here you go again, you're just answering my questions with another question. what a lousy style you've got there.

what basis? I haven't even started yet. I was waiting for you to post numbers so I can critique them.

[omar50071]

you probably didn't understand the flow of the conversation we had earlier with cdburgh and you just butted in without analyzing it thoroughly so let me refresh you're memory, the discussion was "there are more people suffering now" compared to previous terms. yes you gave some stats but do you think it answers what was being asked for?

1) comparing 16.3 from first half of this year and about 15.7 from last year is just comparing PGMA's term against her term. DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

2) giving an SWS survey for this year without giving another survey from either Cory's, Ramos' and Erap's is no comparison at all. DOESN'T MAKE SENSE EITHER.

conclusion: when you present supporting stats make sure it's verifiable, comparable and most importantly, complete.

let me ask you a simple question: are you fond of submitting reports just for the sake of submitting one even if it doesn't come close to what was being asked of you? pity. such a waste of time.

Is that so.....how about this one,












satisfied now? you can start clearing your eyes from the smoke coming from my behind...

[omar50071]

I actually had a very decent job when I worked in Cebu... with a very decent pay. I would have had a managerial position in an oil company right about now if I decided to stay. so leaving Cebu for NYC has got nothing to do with whatever you just speculated: corrupt government, employment with decent pay is scarce etc etc...

What's your job in NY again?
Point is, doctors leave for a nursing job in the US, I don't have to explain why, how about you?

I'm not the type of person who blames everything and everyone but himself.

That's pure assumption....is it wrong nowadays to criticize a corrupt administration?
You don't seem to know the meaning of criticizing and blaming....try look for it in the dictionary.

again, giving sweeping statements and generalizations won't do you no good. why don't you analyze your thoughts before posting them here so you won't look like a typical sour-grape. blame the government, blame the country, blame the politicians. who else gets the blame next?

What does that make you....

You have a habit of making assumptions do you? Lame....

[omar50071]

Hehehe ... there you go . Now when you say gaining more , you are heading towards become RICHER and not POORER right ? Although that is a concept of nothing in between but ikaw ra ang ni hisgut mismo that you are in th MIDDLE CLASS family . SO what happened now ?

Of course I will be aiming for the better, who would not? But it does not give me much assurance given this type of administration. Basin mo ingon nasad mo ako gi blame ang government ha, palawmi gamay pud inyo reasoning palihug.

Wrong .... simhot kuno ug GITI bahong GINAMOS ba and vice versa , what you are trying to tell me here is an EXPRESSION . Now if the case of the NFA rice is bahong OKOK ... so EXPRESSION ra diay na ? In short nothing is WRONG with it kay expression ra man kaha na . Ang pagkaon ma agi-an ug OKOK manimaho man gyud na ug okok .

As I said before, NFA rice is ok for human consumption, not filthy ha, pero lahi ra kaayo baho ug lami sa commercial rice like Ganador.

Not entirely HK but other countries as well to include 1st world nations . I already gave you a first hand experience for you to digest since its only a personal claim . True the burden proof doesnt lie on you untill you said MINIMAL lang ang PETTY CRIMES sa HK .... then prove that .

I can only assume na minimal kay it did not reach the front pages, or I have'nt heard any from anyone I know who's been there, so far ikaw pa ako na dunggan.

And you entirely believed that it is not POLITCIALLY MOTIVATED ? Hehehe ... I am not discounting anything from PGMA to SWS , but you have to grasp the idea that in this game you to play it right otherwise you will be eaten alive . Just dont assumed that because I dont believed in SWS if its against PGMA doesnt mean mo tuo ko sa SWS kung pabor ni PGMA pod .

Politically motivated or not, as long as their is truth to it, wala koy problema. Parehas gud kang ERAP sa una, it was politically motivated also, mao na kick-out cya.

The way you see it , YES . The way I see it maybe just to incline what you think but she has ACCOMPLISHED so much that even her detractors can probably only dream of accomplishing it .

Mao ba.....what are her accomplishments? Bollooning our foriegn debts greater than the three presidents combined? Making us number one in corruption? Lying? Cheating?

BTW ... dont resort to generalization , we'll point it out piece by piece and since you mentioned about HUNGRY MOUTHS ... we'll start there . Do you know why they are hungry ? Please discount FOOD PRICES went up . Ako ug ikaw lage wala man magutom .

We are lucky we dont belong in the lower class, it does not mean also that all the poor people deserve to be there. I seriously doubt your notion that they are all lazy.

[cdburgh]

don't try twisting the issue and refrain from forcing words into my mouth: you were the one who said "there are more people suffering right now". how quick of you to forget. besides, I never said "the situation got better", all I asked was statistics to support your claim. and here you are prodding me not to believe every numbers the government churns out but at the same time, YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN ME ANY to support your claim? ironic isn't it?

and stop using my example of the 90M population, you know and everybody else knows that I used that figure to dispel your baseless generalization. stop being a copy-cat, make your own argument.

so stop going around in circles and give me the numbers I've been asking from you since my first post.

i am not trying to twist the issue here. yes, you did not say "the situation got better" but you also do not accept that there are more people suffering right now. isn't it in a way telling us that the are fewer people suffering? you might have the numbers that can support your claim, show it to us so we can correct ourselves. read again if i am prodding you not to believe the numbers of the government, certainly you believe any numbers thrown into your throat by the government. no amount of numbers can compensate the situation on the ground. since you are too far away, i don't think you can really be in touch with the real situation.

isn't everything here up for discussion including your very own "90M"? in the first place, it's not about representation, its about more or fewer and not about a representation of a certain group.

i don't need the numbers to feel the real situation, numbers sometimes lies. that's the irony of it all.

[giddyboy]

The rich gets richer the poor gets poorer, that whats happening. That is not progress as a country.

oh my. u can't describe our economy with just one sentence bro oi. it's not like that. It's not only some of the rich got richer or some of the poor got poorer, but the rich sometimes get poor, the poor sometimes get richer, some the rich stays the same, some the poor stays the same. (and some of the poor get cellphones, and the cellphones get the poor...hikhik)...and we are not yet even talking about the middle-class.

People who used to buy Ganador now opt to buy NFA, bisag baho ug walay lami. Ayaw ko ingna na pangilad na ako kay I personally saw it, smelled it and tasted it, wala jud ayo ang bugas sa NFA compared to commercial rices, period.

ikaw cguro bahoan sa NFA rn. that's your personal opinion, and not from the ones who lined up to get 3 kilos. Sori nlng ky daghan ang galinya. op kors lahi gyud ang NFA sa other commercial brands. Gusto pud diay kag NFA nga pareha sa Ganador? saun nlng...hikhik

Mao bha, naa pud diay snatcher sa HK. Basin imo pasabot kay syndicated crimes, not small time criminals.

naay intawn mga snatcher sa HK bro oi.

here's even a British travel advisory for HK travelers:

"The incidence of violent crime is very low but pickpocketing and other street crime can occur in urban areas. You should take extra care of passports, credit cards and money in crowded areas. You should be careful of your belongings when checking out of hotels. There have also been some isolated incidents of robberies in Hong Kong’s Country Parks since 2005...

...In both 2006 and 2007, the Hong Kong press reported instances of spiked drinks, targeting both males and females. Whilst there have been no recent reports of this practice, you should ensure that anything you drink cannot be tampered with."

i know low ang ilang crime rate compared sa Pinas but they are well-known for their organized crimes. and because of their people's perception that they have low crime, they believe that their society is, in law and order terms, healthy and clean, although this may not be the case. Result is a false sense of security (source: wiki)

and btw, crime rate in the Phils was down 5% in 2007.

It is hard to wake up a man pretending to be a sleep.
Unless we face reality and work on it for the better, our future seems doomed.

i am not pretending to be asleep. i am just TRYING to be optimistic...i know we have a big problem with corruption but not being optimistic and hopeful means losing the battle even before you begin preparing for it.

I'm mentioning "perception" coz this is all the basis for surveys on gov't corruption. even net satisfaction ratings are based from it.

Political decisions, even if "really" good can be perceived as unpopular and unsatisfactory for some people. Even if crimes went down a notch or two, statistically, u can't still blame people to think that it's getting worse.

In some contrast, in HK for example, though noted for their organized crime, their people believe (perceive) that their society is, in law and order terms, healthy and clean. Even if that is not the "real" case, it shows how positive they are in their attitude.

what im saying is, perception is different from real numbers.

if u want a clear picture of our poverty situation, well, satisfaction ratings are also significant "perception-wise", but u need to look more on actual statistics like these:

NSCB - Philippine Poverty Statistics - Poverty Incidence and Rank of the Ten Poorest Provinces in 2000, 2003, and 2006

NSCB - Philippine Poverty Statistics - Ten Provinces with Largest Increase in Poverty Incidence from 2000 to 2003, and 2003 to 2006

HOW MANY ARE POOR IN THE COUNTRY?

Approx. 24 out of 100 Pinoy families did not earn enough in 2003 to satisfy their basic food & non-food requirements. This was a slight improvement from the 2000 situation wherein 28 out of 100 families experienced income shortfall from the poverty threshold.

In terms of population, 30 out of 100 Filipinos in 2003 had income short of the minimum cost of satisfying the basic requirements, an improvement from 2000 in which 33 out of 100 Filipinos had income below the poverty threshold. This translated to a 1.6 million decrease in the magnitude of Filipinos living below the poverty line.

IN 2007, WHAT'S THE MIN. INCOME NEEDED BY A 5-MEMBER FAMILY SO AS NOT TO BE CONSIDERED POOR?

For 2007, Filipino families consisting of 5 members should be earning a combined monthly income of PhP 6,195 in order to meet their most basic food & non-food needs for this year. A sole breadwinner in a 5-member family residing at the NCR is expected to find a difficult task in bringing the entire family above the poverty line if he/she only earns at most PhP 265 per day.

AND AS A COMPARISON:

Poverty threshold in the Phils. (family of 5) = PhP 6,195/ mo.
Poverty threshold in the USA (family of 5) = around USD 1,700/mo. or PhP 76,500/mo.

Proportion of Pinoys living below poverty level = 33%
Proportion of Americans living below poverty level = 13%

and these are just a few examples...

ASSURANCE? pre, for any type of administration, there is always no assurance that you'll get satisfied. Even Americans and Europeans. that's why i said "The President (and her SONA) cannot please everybody."

"It is very very hard to instill hope and optimism for a man who doesn't want it in the first place."

[omar50071]

oh my. u can't describe our economy with just one sentence bro oi. it's not like that. It's not only some of the rich got richer or some of the poor got poorer, but the rich sometimes get poor, the poor sometimes get richer, some the rich stays the same, some the poor stays the same. (and some of the poor get cellphones, and the cellphones get the poor...hikhik)...and we are not yet even talking about the middle-class.

I was not describing economy, I was reacting to your comment.

ikaw cguro bahoan sa NFA rn. that's your personal opinion, and not from the ones who lined up to get 3 kilos. Sori nlng ky daghan ang galinya. op kors lahi gyud ang NFA sa other commercial brands. Gusto pud diay kag NFA nga pareha sa Ganador? saun nlng...hikhik

You got it wrong, my point is, people who used to buy premium rice before now opt to buy low quality NFA rice out of poverty. When you are used to eat premium rice, you would know the difference between those two.

naay intawn mga snatcher sa HK bro oi.

here's even a British travel advisory for HK travelers:

"The incidence of violent crime is very low but pickpocketing and other street crime can occur in urban areas. You should take extra care of passports, credit cards and money in crowded areas. You should be careful of your belongings when checking out of hotels. There have also been some isolated incidents of robberies in Hong Kong’s Country Parks since 2005...

...In both 2006 and 2007, the Hong Kong press reported instances of spiked drinks, targeting both males and females. Whilst there have been no recent reports of this practice, you should ensure that anything you drink cannot be tampered with."

i know low ang ilang crime rate compared sa Pinas but they are well-known for their organized crimes. and because of their people's perception that they have low crime, they believe that their society is, in law and order terms, healthy and clean, although this may not be the case. Result is a false sense of security (source: wiki)

and btw, crime rate in the Phils was down 5% in 2007.

According to your source, its an isolated case, but here you say its the other way around?
Anyway, you still cannot discount the fact that HK is much more safer then pinas.

i am not pretending to be asleep. i am just TRYING to be optimistic...i know we have a big problem with corruption but not being optimistic and hopeful means losing the battle even before you begin preparing for it. I'm mentioning "perception" coz this is all the basis for surveys on corruption.

In my HK example, their people believe (perceive) that their society is, in law and order terms, healthy and clean. Even if that is not the "real" case, it shows how positive they are in their attitude.

ASSURANCE? pre, for any type of administration, there is always no assurance that you'll get satisfied. Even Americans and Europeans. that's why i said "The President (and her SONA) cannot please everybody."

"It is very very hard to instill hope and optimism for a man who doesn't want it in the first place."

Im with you on optimism, you should also be realistic, reasonable and rational, kay delikado kaayo, we might fall into a false sense of optimism. We should also consider the things that are happening in reality, not rejecting facts.

Are you really serious in your presumption regarding the false sense of security to the people in HK? I don't think people there are that stupid to buy that.

Assurance? Who's asking for assurance?
You must have confused me with someone else here....