Strong faith in God BUT Losing hope to Religions

[SioDenz]

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IT AMAZES ME THAT DESPITE HIS INVOCATION TO EXTREME VIOLENCE AND MURDEROUS PSYCHOPATHIC TENDENCIES, HE REMAINS A "SAINT" AMONG PROTESTANTS.

There's No sainthood in Protestantism, duna diay Protestant religion nag consider ni Luther as Saint same as what RC considers saint Paul? I think your Wrong...

Luther started protestantism but was not considered a saint. Never you can hear in protestant Churches Discussing about Luther. The Only teachings Protestant Churches say about luther is that he started the reformation and thats it. so saying he remains a Saint among Protestants is dead wrong..

[brendomar]

Lahi ang Martin Luther ug Martin Luther King Jr.

Maypag mu undang kag post diri sa istorya.net kalatx2 ra ka sa imung ka bugo diri

Way pulos imung kabugo

murag ikaw ramay bahog baba diri sa forum vedder. Pa notbrush pud uie! abot diri ang baho.

[brendomar]

Murag lahi na silang 2 migo si Martin Luther ug Martin Luther King Jr.
Martin Luther - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Martin Luther King, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

ai sorry newbie. Still, disagree ko that Martin Luther is psychopathic. sya man gani nag open sa kamatuoran sa bibliya para sa mga taw, the time nga gisuppress pa sa Vatican ang kamatuoran.

[noy]

murag layo raman kayo sa tinuod ning imoha migo! pangdaut maning imoha. How could a so called "psychophath" be named and honored such as below>? Lisud gyud ning naa tay agenda migo kay dali kayo ta makareact ug negatives when people posts information about good protestant leaders.

from wiki migo ai:
King was posthumously awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom and the Congressional Gold Medal. Martin Luther King, Jr. Day was established as a holiday in numerous cities and states beginning in 1971, and as a U.S. federal holiday in 1986. Hundreds of streets in the U.S. have been renamed in his honor. In addition, a county was rededicated in his honor. A memorial statue on the National Mall was opened to the public in 2011.

Martin Luther King, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

LOL dili si martin luther king Jr. ang iyng pasabut brad..but the 16th century "Martin Luther".. hehehe

mao ni siya.. Martin Luther - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[noy]

mao ra jud akong nahibudngan naay uban diri dali kayo makareact against topics like this nya ila gyud i oppose nga conspiracy daw. How sad these people are pretending to be "Christian" Catholics yet suppresing the truth of Jesus Christ and the bible.

John 8:32King James Version (KJV)
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.

Acts 16:31King James Version (KJV)
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

NWO: the Vatican, martial law, the mark of the beast, the Antichrist and the false messiah - YouTube

conspiracy theory na siya brad unless proven. especially nga ang basis kay bible verses which can be misinterpreted by people who are against the Catholic Church..we can find this scenario in reality where one Christian would pose a certain interpretation while the other Christian says another..when both are pointing at the same exact bible verse. this is every evident in the fact that Protestantism now has more or less 35K denominations..each denomination would claim to hold the absolute truth with the bible as the sole basis and to have been led by the spirit for interpretation..pero ang resulta lahi2x ..naay muingon nga ang catholic church apostate, naa puy muingon nga dili..kinsa may insakto ani brad? how do we reconcile these differences? --maong conspiracy theory brad.. i hope you see what i mean.

would you really consider the Catholic Pope Francis the anti-Christ? while most of us Christians are judging Atheists and Homosexuals..that guy preached on loving them not their acts and beliefs but their souls and who they truly are in the eyes of God.

naa puy sa una nga Pope John Paul daw anti-Christ pud...that Pope worked so hard for peace among different religions in the world..so Pope bennedict pud daw..asa man? diba ning resign na? hehehehe..

[noy]

Thnx @noy ... nice thoughts and it really answers most of my confusions honestly...

Sorry if I miss the specifics but that is out my mind to tell who are these leaders, priests etc.. and what are their so called "failures".
I believe in God so Ginoo nlng ang nkahibaw and bahala ana...

way sapayan bai... salamat pud
yes bai, Ginoo nay bahala ana nila..ug Ginoo nay bahala nato pud. hehe

Sorry if general na kaau ako post ky mostly mn gud sa ako nahibaw-an (Dghan ko group so we share everything..more on good things but sad to say few bad things are what we see in common)... so meaning dili lang 1 ka church ako nahibal-an.

way kaso na..tao ra bya ka..LOL
bitaw kahibaw ko nga more than 1 ka Church,Leader/Priest imung pasabut..
but still not a reason to generalize...daghan bitawng tapolan sa mga pinoy pero wala na nagpasabut nga tapolan ang mga pinoy.

I agree, naa mn gyud tinudanay nga mohatag but this is not my point. Whether heartfelt donations or pasikat lng.... what I'm pointing out are the EFFECTs.. 1 of the effect? "Unfair treatment and injustice..." ... This is human in nature but again they are church leaders... NOT a barangay captain, NOT a company CEO, NOT a president of the country etc... nga kinahanglan mo hatag ug sympathy or return in general...
The(leaders) are now the once acting on it after big donations comes in. Wala lang gani pakilam ang ng donate ky kinasingkasing but sila ang nagpakita ug sobra "kaau" compare sa mga regular/ordinary members lng...
I say "regular/ordinary" because they are categorized at the back of the mind of those type of leaders and you can really see and felt it.

yes bai, i see your point.
question lang, if you needed help for example..simbako lang operahanan ka..
unya wa kay kwarta..and it would cost you 100K para ma operahan..
naa kay usa ka migo muhatag ug 3k para dungag tabang..pero naa pud kay usa ka migo muhatag ug 90K. of course..magpasalamat ka sa naghatag sa 3k nga migo but! lahi jud nga klaseng pasalamat ang imung ihatag sa imung migo nga ninghatag ug 90K..so bati na imung reaction?are you being unfair with your friend who donated only 3K? not necessarily..depende sa intention..
problem is, di ta kita sa intention..we only see the outward side..
ingun pa nila di tanang naay patik adik ug di tanang adik naay patik..Lol

Now, for the first time in general:
How is selling religious items with price? Do you think this is good? So for simplicity sake, you are buying your faith.

not necessarily, if you are talking about reboltos and the likes bai
the price would vary depending on size, craftmanship, design, material just like any other artworks sold in the market..dili bya pud lalim ang paghimo ana..
syemprem the main purpose is to raise funds.. just like donations, offerings and church fees..

You might say they spend money to build or make those religious items

mahal2x jud siguro nag palit bai kay talent bya na ilang gibayran pud..naa man puy mga baratohon..

BUT how could you reconcile with people who can't afford?

di man siguro kinahanglan mga mahalon jud ang paliton..moreover, di man pud pinogsanay nga mupalit jud..so unsa may problema sa mga di ka afford?
ako gani, di man ko mupalit ug dagko nga rebolto kay mahalan ko...in fact, wa man koy rebolto sa amoa..Lol i have a picture/poster of Jesus i bought for p50. dayun nagbitay ko ug rosary..mao ra..
kanang mga mahalon para na sa mga maka afford..hehehe..
prehas ra na sa mga brands bai gud...ang uban kay mag Oakley..kita kay mantinir lang tag okey...hehehe

This is in aid for our stronger faith in God right? In my own thought, why would just ask donations to build/make religious items and share it the people for FREE.

that's nice para ma apud sa tanang parokyano!
pero mas nice ug naay mudonate specifically para ani..kinsa man kaha bro?

I can say mahal rba gyud...

mahal jud bai 'cause they're a work of art.

If the purpose is for additional funding for whatever reasons(church expenses, outreach programs etc..) why selling other goods/items?

like i said earlier bai for additional funds jud na..ma justify ra man nato ang purpose ug reason..and valid man ang purpose jud..pero kung gi korakot na sa mga taga simbahan aw..ilaha nang tulobagon sa Ginoo
unless kita mismo kahibaw jud for sure nga gi korakot then we need to do something about it, reklamo ta!we gather proofs of the corruption and i guess pwede ta patabang sa local government if necessary..kana kung gusto jud ta nga naay kausaban..di man na mausab bai kung wa tay buhaton.

panaglitan maka-timing ko ug pari nga mangmulestya unya akoy witness..maski pag deboto ko,makatilaw jud nag kulating nakong paria..Lol unya mutestigo jud ko para mapriso nang paria.. but i wouldn't turn my back on religion.

You are also stating nga why I use the word Religion nga church leaders ra mn ako issue.. again, I use it bcoz walay Religion kung waly leaders.. BUT naay leader bisan walay Religion.
So akong pasabot nga dili makabuhat or makalihok ang Religions without leaders. So ended up still with leaders of the Religion.

exactly bai, leaders of the religion and Religion itself are two different things..

whenever there's a leader bai, there will always be followers jud..eventually ma develop ang mga rules..guidelines...etc kung religious ang group mahimong religion kung political..politics pud.. and it's not necessarily a bad thing..
in fact, it's good. provided nga honest and righteous ang mga leaders...
so again and i would maintain, it's not religion that causes sa mga korakot within religious groups but the greed and lust for power creeping through a certain leader's heart.

[rafee]

bai @noy ,..You did it ,..You did it... ingon pa ni dora

This time, murag nagkaklaro mn ang imo intention to clarify my confusions... nindot imo mga selected examples.. direct to the point.. salamat kaau.

So,.. next nko statement is a question, dili ni argument. Pangutana rani akoa sir noy ha .. hope you will still clarify or you can provide better thoughts than what I've already known and believed.

Sa imo example nga operahanan ba worth 100k, somebody donated 3k and the other is 90k, I'm still confuse about it though you tried to explain how human really reacts about it. Pero nkasabot rko ha.. ang ako pangutana mao ni:

My previous comment: "This is human in nature but again they are church leaders... NOT a barangay captain, NOT a company CEO, NOT a president of the country etc".

Cguro makaingon ko if sa akoa nahitabo, mas appreciated jud nko ang nihatag ug 90k pero using my previous comment dili mn gud cla ordinary ra nga tawo... Mas daghan ang nibaw-an ky ila gyud ni gi-eskwelahan, gi-practice ug ila ni nga "Call" to be a priest or leader. Meaning, they are not chosen. They simply choose to become like what they are right now.
So, there are now limitations sa ilahang buhaton or reaction specially nagtudlo mn cla ug "fairness", "justice","pagpasalamat" etc..

Like my statement above hopefully ang imo answer naa lang unta gmay distinction between ordinary human/followers/members ky dire mainly ako confusion nag evolve.

So finally my question: Asa mn ang fairness? asa mn ang justifiable treatments towards unknown or ordinary donors? kinahanglan ba diay ang mas DAKO nga pagpasalamat sa dagko sd mo donate?

Kay mao mn ni ila gitudlo: "Dili ang amount/value nga imo gi-donate ang ma ihap sa Ginoo, kung dili ang kinasingkasing nga paghalad Kaniya."

[noy]

bai @noy ,..You did it ,..You did it... ingon pa ni dora

This time, murag nagkaklaro mn ang imo intention to clarify my confusions... nindot imo mga selected examples.. direct to the point.. salamat kaau.

way sapayan bai.. salamat pud kay maayo pud kaayo ka kaistorya..hehe

So,.. next nko statement is a question, dili ni argument. Pangutana rani akoa sir noy ha .. hope you will still clarify or you can provide better thoughts than what I've already known and believed.

Sa imo example nga operahanan ba worth 100k, somebody donated 3k and the other is 90k, I'm still confuse about it though you tried to explain how human really reacts about it. Pero nkasabot rko ha.. ang ako pangutana mao ni:

My previous comment: "This is human in nature but again they are church leaders... NOT a barangay captain, NOT a company CEO, NOT a president of the country etc".

but still human..anyways being human/ haman nature is actually not the issue here bai..
ang question kay if it is really unfair if ang reaction sa gihatagan magdepende sa gihatag? personally i don't think so...
ikaw ra mismo nag ingun...

Cguro makaingon ko if sa akoa nahitabo, mas appreciated jud nko ang nihatag ug 90k

maski gani ikaw diba?

pero using my previous comment dili mn gud cla ordinary ra nga tawo... Mas daghan ang nibaw-an ky ila gyud ni gi-eskwelahan, gi-practice ug ila ni nga "Call" to be a priest or leader. Meaning, they are not chosen. They simply choose to become like what they are right now.
So, there are now limitations sa ilahang buhaton or reaction specially nagtudlo mn cla ug "fairness", "justice","pagpasalamat" etc..

mao lage, balik tas akong pangutana, is it really unfair if ang reaction sa gihatagan magdepende sa gihatag?

Like my statement above hopefully ang imo answer naa lang unta gmay distinction between ordinary human/followers/members ky dire mainly ako confusion nag evolve.

the distinction would only matter bai if you can justify that it is wrong to appreciate the higher donation over smaller ones. even gani ikaw mobuhat ana..ako pud..murag wala pa koy tao nga nailhan nga mas maapreciate ang gamay nga regalo kaysa dako..hehe maski pag wrapped or boxed gifts during pasko...
naay muhatag ug dako ug gamay nga box...i bet you're eyes are stuck on the bigger box...hehehe

anyways like i said earlier...depende na sa intention pud..
prehas sa example i gave earlier..there's nothing wrong with you appreciating more the 90K over 3K provided that you have the right intentions.. which would fall under a human's natural reaction..pero kung imung gi appreciate ang 90K tungod kay dako ug nahatag unya basin makatabang na pud nimu puhon2x unya kahibaw ka nga naa kay makuha sa iya...mao imu gi abi-abi ug maayo..aw that's another story..kana sayop jud na..kay it's a form of "taking advantage"..

So finally my question: Asa mn ang fairness? asa mn ang justifiable treatments towards unknown or ordinary donors? kinahanglan ba diay ang mas DAKO nga pagpasalamat sa dagko sd mo donate?

Fairness lies within the reaction bai.. as long as mapasalamaton ang tao sa tanang naghatag regardless of the amount ..then all is fair..the degree of thankfulness would always vary..depende jud na sa kadako sa gihatag..natural jud nga ingun ana...dako ang hatag...dako ang pasalamat..gamay ang gihatag insakto ra pud nga pasalamat..pero nagpasalamat jud..ug mapasalamaton sa tanang gihatag..mao niy importante...

for example..ako tong naghatag ug 3K..nagpasalamat ka sa ako...malipay ko kay na appreciate nimu akong tabang..kita ko nga ibutang ta lang ug si pedro ninghatag nimu ug 90K..murag naayo ug kalit imung sakit sa kalipay Lol kuwang nalang imung hagkan si Pedro..pero pure imung intention..nalipay lang jud ka kay mapadayun imung oprasyon..ako nga igo ra ko nimu giingnan ug salamat kaayo bai..wa ra nay kaso nako..because natural ra na...di pud ko mangayo ug pasalamat nga worth 90K nga 3K raman akong gihatag..hehehe..kana hinuon maoy unfair...

another example pa jud.. nanukar mi sa handuraw una..ubay-ubay pud ang nangadto nga mga kaila...nagpasalamat ko sa tanan pero akong amigo nga gikan pa sa layong dapit..na special mention jud na...'cause mas na appreciate nako nga despite sa iyang kalayo..ning adto siya...

Kay mao mn ni ila gitudlo: "Dili ang amount/value nga imo gi-donate ang ma ihap sa Ginoo, kung dili ang kinasingkasing nga paghalad Kaniya."

ah i see..para nako lang bai ha...di man ni related sa imung concern...hehehe
the only time that a priest or religious leader would violate this is when he would refuse a donation tungod kay gamay ra ang ihatag..

pero kasabut ko nganu ingun ana imung reaction, ang imung gi point out kay reaction sa tao pero ang imung standards nga gigamit kay sa Ginoo..i guess mao nay naka cause sa confusion.

ang Ginoo bai, He sees the heart and knows our inner most thoughts when we give..so lahi ug basehan ang Ginoo..while atong mga pari and local preachers..as human beings like everyone else..they only see the outward portion..
so naturally,mas ma appreciate jud ang dako2x nga donation..however, as long as giappreciate pud tong gagmay i think ayos ra na...normal ra na.

but with God,lahi bai... since kakita man siya sa tanan..di siya magtan-aw kung pila imung gihatag..mas importante ang intention..for God, a piso that is genuinely given by a poor fellow as an offering despite of his poverty is more precious for God than the millions given by others simply because they have no other way of spending their money..hehehehe..--this my friend is what the teaching "Dili ang amount/value nga imo gi-donate ang ma ihap sa Ginoo, kung dili ang kinasingkasing nga paghalad Kaniya." is all about..this standard would only apply to priests or any people like us if in an instant we can see the person's heart and intention for giving..unfortunately, in our case..only time will tell..hehehe..so priests/religious leader and ordinary members..prehas ra ta aning dapita..even Priests and Pastors need our prayers...dili lang sila ang muampo for us...

[brendomar]

@noy

Fairness lies within the reaction bai.. as long as mapasalamaton ang tao sa tanang naghatag regardless of the amount ..then all is fair..the degree of thankfulness would always vary..depende jud na sa kadako sa gihatag..natural jud nga ingun ana...dako ang hatag...dako ang pasalamat..gamay ang gihatag insakto ra pud nga pasalamat..pero nagpasalamat jud..ug mapasalamaton sa tanang gihatag..mao niy importante...

for example..ako tong naghatag ug 3K..nagpasalamat ka sa ako...malipay ko kay na appreciate nimu akong tabang..kita ko nga ibutang ta lang ug si pedro ninghatag nimu ug 90K..murag naayo ug kalit imung sakit sa kalipay Lol kuwang nalang imung hagkan si Pedro..pero pure imung intention..nalipay lang jud ka kay mapadayun imung oprasyon..ako nga igo ra ko nimu giingnan ug salamat kaayo bai..wa ra nay kaso nako..because natural ra na...di pud ko mangayo ug pasalamat nga worth 90K nga 3K raman akong gihatag..hehehe..kana hinuon maoy unfair...

Sal-ot lang ko gamay noy

Kung tawhanon nga pagkasulti uyon ko ani. Pero depende ni sya kay naay cases nga kaning klase sa reaction nga magdepende sa amount gihatag are for those Leaders nga Carnal, Materialistic tingali (sorry for the word). But for a spiritual leader (Priest,Pastor) whose eyes is set on the things of God, ang intention ug kasing2 sa naghatag maoy importante para niya. Sa bagay Ginoo ray nakabalo how sincere ang paghatag.
Naa man gud usahay kaning wealthy nga mga taw with their ego and pride kwarta ray palihokon, thinking acceptable na sa Ginoo ilang amount gihatag diay sinsiyo ra sa ilang income. Naa pud ultimo ug uyamot nga taw like sa poor widow nga bisan wala nay pangpalit sud-an unya 5pesos ray iyang nahatag, pero kinasingkasing ug maayo iyang intention para makatabang spread sa gospel.

Kung ang usa ka leader tinuod na pangwarta ray gihunahuna, katong imong giingong reaction nga kung pwede lang hagkan ang nihatag, iya jud tong buhaton.heheh.

Walay problema kay tawhanon raman ta, pero ang issue is the unfair treatment sa kaning klase nga leaders.

[crono+death ward]

kung walay organized religion, dugay rang na-expire na inyung jesus christ..

mao bitaw required mo mo-ampo og mo-adto mo sa simbahan taga sunday para di mo makalimot sa inyung jesus..

ayaw og simba or ampo for 5 years then basa og science books di ba mahimo mong atheist