Strong faith in God BUT Losing hope to Religions

[brendomar]

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@noy
sa RC church bai noy naa bani breakdown sa tanang expenses ug income sa church? kay sa ubang Christian groups transparent man gud.

Another question, pila ka percentage iremit sa Vatican? tahnks daan.

[newbie.86]

@noy
sa RC church bai noy naa bani breakdown sa tanang expenses ug income sa church? kay sa ubang Christian groups transparent man gud.

Another question, pila ka percentage iremit sa Vatican? tahnks daan.

Specific expenses per diocese or per parish, it varies. The bigger the parish / dioces, the greater is the donations and of course bigger expenses. therefore, walay exact figure but you can inquire the parish office.

Peter's Pence is the fund that is sent to the Vatican by the individual dioceses. In 2010 there are 17, 958 dioceses worldwide and Peter's Pence amounted to about $ 70M.

On average, the diocese of Cebu City would have donated $ 3, 897.98 or a grand total of Php 163, 715.33 pesos to the Vatican in 2011.

Given that Cebu City has a total population of 866, 171 of which 779, 553 are Catholic, each Catholic Cebuano has donated a grand amount of Php 0.21 or 21 centavos to the Vatican in 2011.


Again, EACH Cebuano Catholic has donated 21 centavos to the Vatican in 2011 on average.


See the link for more information. I have used the 2011 statistics since its the one that's widely available.

[rafee]

Please...You didn't get me @noy .. sorry if I misquote the word "Ha?"..

Okay, para dili mataas ang istorya dili nako mo answer sa imo question. Again, I think this is way out of my post topic that is why niingon ko sa last nga :
"then again my question is still: Ngano ingana mn ang treatment sa kabus...while leaders are living in most "unimaginable" way of life but still teaching us to stay low and humble."

What I'm trying to express here is NOT for good leaders. Wala koy sentence or even phrases about GOOD leaders.
I'm trying to give all of you what and how leaders taught us but ended to something opposite.
So meaning everytime I comment I always targeting BAD church leaders..

Giapil pa nimo ni :"i know naa juy mga tao nga gusto magpasikat but i think you're being unfair with the politicians and businessmen or to people generally who genuinely donate out of goodwill and pure intentions..
ay kog ingna nga puro na pasikatay tanang muhatag sa simbahan nga wala nagpa anonymous..kay wa jud ta kahibaw sa intention sa usa ka tao. "

Daghan imo gi explain and I appreciate that. Sa imo mga arguments, medyo gi compare mn gud nimo ang good and bad leaders together with donors nga kinasingkasing ang pag donate... as if wla ko idea nga naa diay existing good leaders and heartfelt donations.

Kani sd: "now kay naay mga tao nga walay gikaon..di nalang pwede magka relo ang pari becuase they teach about giving and charity? i believe in the spirit of charity and sharing, so are you saying that i shouldn't watch a movie or buy car accessories or even buy a car because other people are starving to death?"

This is too beyond your great thoughts. If you can go with me, put yourself as church leader.
Now, try ug tudlo sa imo mga members nga:
(Fact example ni ha..)
"dili ta mgpuyo sa mga material nga butang" (I don't think you didn't hear this phrase)...

So, being a leader imoha pud na cyang sundon as a model. Si Jesus bitaw, ng puyo mn sa kauban ang mga prostitues and lepers. So Kaya rba nimo sundon ang imo gitudlo even if maka afford ka ug watch movie, car etc..? If kaya ra then you are a good leader otherwise you are hypocrite.

Now, dili ang pagbaton ug material nga butang ang ako gi question, ang ilahang gitudlo w/c is opposite sa ilahang gibuhat.
"Call" mn kaha ilaha gisudlan, dili mn kaha na "profession" so I guess there's no room for them to live far beyond his followers..
that is why I call it "unimaginable way of life!"...

Para hapsay cguro, dili nlng cla mg tudlo ana pra wlay labad... Mangita nlng unta pud ug lain paagi sa pagtudlo nga ideal sa tawhanong ambisyon or needs pra dili pud ma conflict sa gipangtudlo..

Ang effect man gud ky DILI na mangambisyon ug dako ang mga members (true followers) mhimo nlng ginoo ang han-ukan sa ilahang dili mao nga nbuhat...kay kuno : "pagbuot sa Ginoo...".. Asa cla nkakuha ani? sa mga leaders kunohay...

Ang problema mn sd gud ky everytime somebody is complaining about their deeds they always have answers.
Ex: "Unsaon Tawo ramn pud ko"

[anubiz]

I guess I need to share my experience on how I still believe in God (whatever the other religion call it), Jesus, Mary and Saints BUT ending NOT believing the practices that the churches and most religious leaders teachings (of course I'm still following the good traits).

Sauna nag serve ko sa 1 of the biggest church in cebu and believing almost everything I've heard from priests..

Mao ni ilaha itudlo :
..."Kinahanglan mapasayloon, magpabilin nga mapaubsanon ug matinabangon"...
..."Ang ubos ipataas ug ang taas ipaubos"...

... and the rest of good things...

To start and cut my story short...

1 day na shock ko ky naa known donor sa church (businesswoman) nga mosulod sa church bisan close na (9pm+) ky mg ampo ug kini gipasulod.. (ingani nga time naa pa pa sad tawo ang cimbahan ky naa pa mga choir mg practice.)..

Pero nilabay nlng ang lain mga tuig, mao gihapon ang buhaton if naa mga big donors or known personalities nga mosulod ky mo visit lng ni father or mo stay lng sa simbahan ky naa sila family problems etc... maka sulod or maka tulog sa sulod.. aircon pa..

Ang nka shock nko ky sa akong pagsabot, ang simbahan kitukod pra sa katawhan. Pero sa pila nko katuig sa simbahan mobagyo mn or kusog lang nga uwan or baha if gabii na wla gyud ko kita ug mga tindera sa kandila or tawo nga nghigda gwas sa simbahan nga GIPASULOD ky mao ang mando sa mga pari. (Of course in my thought its still right ky bacin mangawat..)

Pero dako sd nko nga pagka shock nga dagko mn diay ni KITA (take home pay ***I dont know unsa jud pangan ana ky dili mn pud na mtawag nga sweldo***) ang mga pari.. with allowance pa..samot na ang mga naay position sa simbahan. If naa mga personal nga lakaw, usahay mg pa refund pa.. (so dili jud makuhaan ang ila mga take home pay)..

So meaning...ang mahal nga relo, or mahalon nga gamit sa mga church leaders pwede na mka pakaon ug pipila ka mga tawo nga mglisod gyud intawn ug kaon ka 3 sa 1 ka kaadlaw.

Worst case is mgka bikil pa tungod sa position sa simbahan.

Of course tawo rmn ni sila PERO dili unta dapat mahitabo or ilahang buhaton ky mao mn na ilahang gisudlan. "They call it a CALL and NOT a profession..."

Mao ng start nko ug kalibog ug unsa jud ning religion. Maau ang ipangtudlo pero if magka dugay na ang pari mahimo nmn opposite ang uban niya binuhatan ug kuyog na apil ang mga church policies..

Wala na pari cguro mosugot nga wlay bayad(Donation man gihapon ila itawag bisan naa na amount) ang pgkasal, lubong, bunyag etc... nga "for Poor" mn ilaha permi isulti..

...Ang ending cguro nga close assessment nako is mas powerful ang KWARTA kaysa pgtuo sa imohang Religion...

"So I guess Religion is no different to government politics...
even if the law separates them both.."

i super agree ani.usa sa mga reason why i dont go to church but i do pray on my own. mag pray pasalamat dili everyday pero i do pray....

[noy]

Please...You didn't get me @noy .. sorry if I misquote the word "Ha?"..

no probs bai..

Okay, para dili mataas ang istorya dili nako mo answer sa imo question. Again, I think this is way out of my post topic that is why niingon ko sa last nga :

"then again my question is still: Ngano ingana mn ang treatment sa kabus...while leaders are living in most "unimaginable" way of life but still teaching us to stay low and humble."

if wala man diay gani ka nag generalize then you ought to ask this to religious leaders who are doing these things if that's the case.. you may wanna direct this question to that specific Church where you've witnessed the things you mentioned in your first post..

or better yet, iklaro nimu nga sa kadto nga simbahan ra or pipila ka nga mga simbahan imung pasabut..
ug kadto nga mga leaders/pari nga imung na encounter..
para di ka ma misinterpret..

kay ang impact ani bai is you'd appear to be blaming RELIGION for some religious people's mess ups! which i believe is unfair.

naa kay giingun sa imung first post nga
"Wala na pari cguro mosugot nga wlay bayad(Donation man gihapon ila itawag bisan naa na amount) ang pgkasal, lubong, bunyag etc... nga "for Poor" mn ilaha permi isulti.." ---how do you think i should take this? dugngan pa sa imung title..wa man kay giingun nga ang mga pari nga imung nailhan kay di na mosugot ug walay bayad...on the contrary imung giinugn kay "WALA NA PARI CGURO"...isn't this a form of generalization? don't you think it's unfair for those who truly serve the Lord?

for the poor? kanang mass weddings?mass baptism? for the poor man na.
hopefully wala lang pud untay mass burial...hehehehe, how about mga outreach programs? orphanages and homes for the aged nga organized sa diocese?
diba for the poor man ni tanan?

anyways, back to the services kung e-free tanan..unsaon man pag survive sa simbahan? through sa mga politiko kadtong imung giingun?nga imoras ang donasyon? unya kay di diay kaha tanan naay backer nga politiko or businessman? unsaon man ang expenses sa simbahan kung ang sibut ray saligan? sinsilyo pa jud ang ihatag..or wala jud...

What I'm trying to express here is NOT for good leaders. Wala koy sentence or even phrases about GOOD leaders.
I'm trying to give all of you what and how leaders taught us but ended to something opposite.
So meaning everytime I comment I always targeting BAD church leaders..

bai, the title of your thread is "Strong Faith in God, but loosing Hope to RELIGIONS" Note on religions, that's pretty general you see..
well kung imung title kay strong faith in God but is very discouraged and dissapointed with this certain Church i serve..aw kana..klaro jud ang imung pasabut..

nothing from your first post would note that you are only referring to the rotten tomatoes in the Church..hehehe..
'cause the way you put it, it appears that these things are happening to ALL Churches..PLUS! balik tas imung title...loosing hope to religions?...again how else should i take your idea?

Giapil pa nimo ni :"i know naa juy mga tao nga gusto magpasikat but i think you're being unfair with the politicians and businessmen or to people generally who genuinely donate out of goodwill and pure intentions..
ay kog ingna nga puro na pasikatay tanang muhatag sa simbahan nga wala nagpa anonymous..kay wa jud ta kahibaw sa intention sa usa ka tao. "

Before ko ning sulti ana..mao ni imung gisulti ai:
"WRONG. Ang BIG donors (politician or known businessman) dili mohulog sa sibot. Ikaw nlng analyze sa reason but to give u a hint: To let the leaders know that "I am" the donor. " --again, is there any hint in this phrase that you are just referring to some churches?

ingun pa jud ka nga "I've been through all your thoughts. Before pko ng post ani I personally know and see how things really working with money inside the church. " inside the Church?..kadaghang simbahan dah..

mao bitaw nangutana ko sa imu ani to clarify: "how did you personally know and see how things work with money inside the Church? should this mean each and every Church there is?
if not, how many churches are we talking about?"

so mabasol ba ko nimu if naka ingun ko nga you're being unfair sa mga tinuod nga deboto? basahon nimu imung post bai..especially sa title pa lang daan..murag as if tanang religion kay polpol ug korakot tanang religious leaders.

Daghan imo gi explain and I appreciate that. Sa imo mga arguments, medyo gi compare mn gud nimo ang good and bad leaders together with donors nga kinasingkasing ang pag donate... as if wla ko idea nga naa diay existing good leaders and heartfelt donations.

actually bai,ang akong mga comment kay gi base ra pud nako sa imung mga post.

ang point sa akong argument is to HIGHLIGHT that NOT ALL Churches are doing the things you've mentioned in your first post..and in contrast with your Title..Religion must not get the BLAME for religious people's mess ups.

well at least, karun klaro na nga naa ra diay kay pipila nga mga pari/church/religious leaders nga giigo..so nganu Loosing Hope in RELIGIONS man nga wla may sala ang religion?
so kung naa paman diay mga leaders nga tarong nganu ning ingun man ka sa imung first post nga "wala na pari siguro"..and if naay mga tarong jud nga politicians and businessmen and women nga muhatag ug dagko nga donations..
nganu ingun man ka ug "Ang BIG donors (politician or known businessman)"..
again, mangutana na pud ko.. how else should i take this? muingon diay ko di siguro ni tanan iyang pasabut...nga murag general man kaayo ang approach nimu? anyways, imu naman gi klaro nga di diay to tanan imung pasabut..pero akong punto is di ko nimu mabasol if ma misinterpret taka..

Kani sd: "now kay naay mga tao nga walay gikaon..di nalang pwede magka relo ang pari becuase they teach about giving and charity? i believe in the spirit of charity and sharing, so are you saying that i shouldn't watch a movie or buy car accessories or even buy a car because other people are starving to death?"

This is too beyond your great thoughts. If you can go with me, put yourself as church leader.
Now, try ug tudlo sa imo mga members nga:
(Fact example ni ha..)
"dili ta mgpuyo sa mga material nga butang" (I don't think you didn't hear this phrase)...

So, being a leader imoha pud na cyang sundon as a model. Si Jesus bitaw, ng puyo mn sa kauban ang mga prostitues and lepers. So Kaya rba nimo sundon ang imo gitudlo even if maka afford ka ug watch movie, car etc..? If kaya ra then you are a good leader otherwise you are hypocrite.

Now, dili ang pagbaton ug material nga butang ang ako gi question, ang ilahang gitudlo w/c is opposite sa ilahang gibuhat.
"Call" mn kaha ilaha gisudlan, dili mn kaha na "profession" so I guess there's no room for them to live far beyond his followers..
that is why I call it "unimaginable way of life!"...

yeah i get what you mean and i agree with the whole walking the talk, practice what you preach thing..who wouldn't diba?

but to be fair pud sa atong gipang pitlok karun mao ingun ko sa imu i need you to be very specific on what sort of material things these priests are seemingly drooling themselves over nga naka ingun ka ug hipokrito sila.."unimaginable life" is too vague bai..

example: ang pari kay naay auto...hipokrito!
now, basin gihatag ang auto sa iyaha? or iyang gitigom ang iyang allowance,stipend ug gipalit ug auto..sayop ni?
ang auto bai, especially for priests who might need to travel to do pastoral works with significant distances from one area to another, to be more effective and efficient with their CALL as ministers....a CAR is actually a necessity..ug dili na luho...labaw sa tanan..wa ta kahibaw if unsay rason sa iyang pagpalit sa auto..Ginoo ray kita sa kasing-kasing.

so any specifics you got there?

Para hapsay cguro, dili nlng cla mg tudlo ana pra wlay labad... Mangita nlng unta pud ug lain paagi sa pagtudlo nga ideal sa tawhanong ambisyon or needs pra dili pud ma conflict sa gipangtudlo..

so dili nato tudloan atong anak ug pasensya kay simbako lang naa jud nay panahon nga mu snap ta.. mahutdan ta ug pasensya..mahimo unya tang hipokrito...di nalang pud nato sila tudloan ug pagpasaylo kay basin muabut ang panahon sa atong kahuyang especially sa kadako sa sala nga nabuhat sa ato..masuko unya ta maayo unya maglisod ug pagpasaylo...

Ang effect man gud ky DILI na mangambisyon ug dako ang mga members (true followers) mhimo nlng ginoo ang han-ukan sa ilahang dili mao nga nbuhat...kay kuno : "pagbuot sa Ginoo...".. Asa cla nkakuha ani? sa mga leaders kunohay...

di maningkamot mag-usab sa mga sayop kay pagbuot sa Ginoo nga masayop? kinsa mang paria nag ingun ana kay atong duklon(joke lang hehe) rather ireklamo na sa archdiocesan..Lol
ug kinsa pud nang mga tawhana nga wa naningkamot mag-bag.o tungod kay ingun ang pari..kay duklon sad nato(joke again..Lol )
you see, it's a two way street bai..ingun pa nila...way mailad kung way magpailad... i'm just taking your word on this...granting nga tinuod jud ning nahitabo sa usa ka Church.

Ang problema mn sd gud ky everytime somebody is complaining about their deeds they always have answers.
Ex: "Unsaon Tawo ramn pud ko"

we need to be very detailed on what kind of sipyat are we talking about here..
is it a sipyat nga natandog ang garbo unya nagpreach ug humility?
or nagpreach ug trusting God with everything pero nag guol kay naay cancer?
are these the kind of faults are you referring to?

or nangrape nga pari or nang mulestiya nga pari..unya mu rason lang ug tao ra ko..
kana! kay ipa priso jud na! tang2x sa pagkapari...
kung naay mga ingun ani nga problem. ang problema is wa kaayoy mureklamo...
ang uban mudawat ug settlement...

so asa man nga sipyat imung pasabut?

speaking of sipyat..naka suway naka bai nga nagdumot?
i bet you tell other people nga dili maayo ang magdumot..does that make you a hypocrite? not necessarily.. tao lang jud ka..masayop lang..

anyways, kasabut ra ko sa imung punto bai...before i embraced Catholicism or Religion in general. i've hated it for more than 10 years..di nalang ko mushare nganu kay perting taasa na jud. like i said, i've once held the thoughts you now hold...may gani ka naa kay strong gaith in God..ako sa una...murag strong hate man to..LOL

i agree with what you said that religion and politics are the same...
not because both are corrupted in many similar ways..but rather both are not to be blamed for some its people's failures.

[NapoleonBlownapart]

i super agree ani.usa sa mga reason why i dont go to church but i do pray on my own. mag pray pasalamat dili everyday pero i do pray....

apili nalang pud ug basa sa bible para kompleto.. hehe

[NAN_WEN]

simple thoughts.... just think lang gud na thr is god..watching over you..... then dont mind th religion,, kay puro rana nigusyo tanan releheyon hehehhe....

[rafee]

Thnx @noy ... nice thoughts and it really answers most of my confusions honestly...

Sorry if I miss the specifics but that is out my mind to tell who are these leaders, priests etc.. and what are their so called "failures".
I believe in God so Ginoo nlng ang nkahibaw and bahala ana...

Sorry if general na kaau ako post ky mostly mn gud sa ako nahibaw-an (Dghan ko group so we share everything..more on good things but sad to say few bad things are what we see in common)... so meaning dili lang 1 ka church ako nahibal-an.

I agree, naa mn gyud tinudanay nga mohatag but this is not my point. Whether heartfelt donations or pasikat lng.... what I'm pointing out are the EFFECTs.. 1 of the effect? "Unfair treatment and injustice..." ... This is human in nature but again they are church leaders... NOT a barangay captain, NOT a company CEO, NOT a president of the country etc... nga kinahanglan mo hatag ug sympathy or return in general...
The(leaders) are now the once acting on it after big donations comes in. Wala lang gani pakilam ang ng donate ky kinasingkasing but sila ang nagpakita ug sobra "kaau" compare sa mga regular/ordinary members lng...
I say "regular/ordinary" because they are categorized at the back of the mind of those type of leaders and you can really see and felt it.

Now, for the first time in general:
How is selling religious items with price? Do you think this is good? So for simplicity sake, you are buying your faith.
You might say they spend money to build or make those religious items BUT how could you reconcile with people who can't afford?

This is in aid for our stronger faith in God right? In my own thought, why would just ask donations to build/make religious items and share it the people for FREE.
I can say mahal rba gyud... If the purpose is for additional funding for whatever reasons(church expenses, outreach programs etc..) why selling other goods/items?

You are also stating nga why I use the word Religion nga church leaders ra mn ako issue.. again, I use it bcoz walay Religion kung waly leaders.. BUT naay leader bisan walay Religion.
So akong pasabot nga dili makabuhat or makalihok ang Religions without leaders. So ended up still with leaders of the Religion.

[rafee]

religion is nothing as long as you trust and believe in Him honestly............

Yes, I agree...

[gazmembrane]

If I may repost what I have answered in another thread:

IMO It's not so much about your religion but rather your relationship with your God (whoever or whatever that may be) that matters