MERGED: Gay Marriage in the Philippines

[pinoy_09]

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[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

It's funny actually that Springfield said that homosexuals "don't have the right to decide to have that 'union'" but he's alright if they get married to another another church or to civil court . He even said he'll support same-*** marriage if eventually there will be a single same-*** couple to get married in a Civil Court , and then he'll even have to support for same-*** marriage in a church wedding . I thought this is the most contradicting thing I've ever read here . But , but ,but ... although he said that MCC is using the RC's sacrament of matrimony and it's an insult to RC and its flock for using it . Then what's the point of "supporting them all the way to a church wedding" when you're really insulted ? Again , he has a very contradicting ish . Why would you even support same-*** marriage in the first place if you think marriage is ONLY between a man and a woman ? He even said he doesn't condemn homosexuals , but he's telling everyone here for all to see that being a homosexual is already wrong and they'll never be normal individuals . This man is a walking contradiction .

Do you even know what you are writing about Mr. FAQ ?

I am supportive of whatever makes HOMOSEXUALS happy because I accepted them as who they are on a personal level . But based on the doctrines I live by , they are DISRESPECTING the SACRAMENT of HOLY MATRIMONY . Do you really think all marriages are HOLY MATRIMONY ? Now what is so contradicting with that ? They could even have their marriage in the Islamic rites if they are Muslims , I really dont care because they are not disrespecting the sacrament . Maybe the Muslims will be offended but definitely not the Catholics .

If your God is so against homosexuality and same-*** marriage then you have to be against both completely or else you're disobeying him and not living the "Christian life" . Ex . Even though you're against Euthanasia but you can't claim yourself as a PRO-LIFE when at the same time you're in favor of abortion . It's makes your beliefs very contradicting . Apparently , that is Springfield .

And that doesnt make myself SELF RIGHTEOUS and a HYPOCRITE . That is on a personal level and you really cant do nothing about it but speculate that I am contradicting . Too bad , that kind of thinking and probably your way of life that has nothing in between makes it so absurd .

He said that they (same-*** couples) can marry if they want to for he doesn't really care as long as they would build their own church , but he has - as he claimed to have - 127 posts on this thread bitching about how homosexuality , and same-*** marriage is morally wrong because it's "not accepted in the bible where the doctrines are based at" and he even goes on to speculating that this same-*** church MCC is a cult creating "loopholes and technicalities" and adopting the RC's marriage doctrines for the purpose of lust . Oooops by the way , he claimed his statements are not influenced by the Bible . Another contradiction !! Hmmmm ...

All your bitter speculations are nothing but full of air with no valid and legitimate basis because your reasoning is based from not so FACTUAL INFORMATION but just from personal point of views . Yes MCC is a cult qwetehr you like it or not , wetehr they ( MCC ) accept it or not . By definition they are and I am not influenced by the bible . Some people confuse the teachings and they become agnostic , some people dislike and they become protestants , some people started questioning out of being rationale and became atheist . Dont hate me mi amor standing firm because I understood my religion heartily . And part of that understanding is the position of what is morally right . Ayaw na lage balika ang issue ang na I support same s3x marriage becaue I really do , but the moment they use the SACRAMENT of HOLY MATRIMONY , its a different story . Same thing with you , unless you are ... that you are cool with homosexuals but the moment they make a move on you , I bet youd be acting like an action hero of the wild , wild west .

Never on his post he presented at least one legit proof as to why the MCC and its flock are only up for lust and the church is a cult . They already have their own church , and presumably has its own rites , so then why you still have to continue posting your distaste in same-*** marriage ? Oh I see ... now that they have their church , next thing you do is to bash its credibility by saying it's a cult ,accuse them of "piracy" , and they're only up for lust . That looks like a disrespect towards them contrary to your claims that you are not against these types of individuals (the non-normal individuals, per se) . He is accusing the MCC of "pirating" the RC but he seems ok about the Anglican church (they're also "pirating" the RC) - that was founded by King Henry Tudor VIII because the Vatican won't allow him to divorce Katherine of Aragon . But that besides the bigger picture .

Never in my post ?

How many times do I have to repost this unless you opt to avoid reading it because it defeats the purpose why you love to speculate ?

Taken from their site :

With or without same-s3x marriage laws in the Philippines, love is still the highest law, and LGBT people are entering into relationships and experiencing God's love in their sexual relationships.

People who venture to other denominations are free to do that because the beliefs they carry represents their freedom . And please dont give your gihaguan na timeline history about the ANGLICAN CHURCH . ANy relevance sa issue nimo diri karon Mr. Historian ? What did the they violate to start ? Contrary to the homosexuals ?

He said the gays and the lesbians are "suffering (from discrimination by the RC and its flock) because of their lifestyle not because of who they are" . Isn't it lifestyle defines who you are ? Political , social , fashion , health , spiritual and etc ... If one has an active in social lifestyle , he/she is an outgoing , happy , and cheerful person .. that defines who he/she is . If one has a same-*** banger lifestyle , aside from being attracted to same *** , he thinks and acts like women would do , that's why you call them gay/faggot/homo which what become who he is . Sometimes checking into your dictionary is a good time investment .

Dont even educate me about definitions , ikaw ang mismo wala nakakuha unsay CULT , unsay real essence of LIFESTYLE and a word of the day nimo , BIGOT... and here you are telling me once in awhile ? Lol ... check yourself .

You sure of that ? The church calls them HOMO and FAGGOT ?

Just because it doesnt align to your biases , dont twist the facts .

Springfield is not only a walking contradiction , but he's also a bigot . His aggressiveness against gays and lesbians knocking for equality is very dumbfounded as if he is their God's right hand guy . He based his opinions from Canon Law and doctrines that are mainly based from that bronze-age book . See how closed-minded this man is . Acting as being the righteous guy claiming he doesn't hate homosexuals is not at all convincing knowing that he said being a homosexual is wrong .

What can I do ? Their existence is not my fault , much more that we are all humans subjected to err and imperfections ? I am only vocal here but if you havent figured out , do you even know how many people here in the forums that agrees with me ? Not that they are my friends , I am a mod , or I know them . Its because they share the same understanding of the teachings . Ayaw ko himua ug dautan intawn dong FAQ .... kay to start with , do you really think this thread would be this long discussed by people who understands , who seeks , who yearns , who wants justified and contented of opinions ? No it wont last that long because I would probably be locking the thread because anything under the sun about HOMOSEXUALS gets into my nerves .

By the way , where do you get your information gani sa history nimo Mr. Historian ? From BRONZE AGE BOOK pod ?

To all homosexuals and lesbians out there ... don't be afraid to be who you are . I believe spreading love (I know bigots would see this in a sexual way) , tolerance , and respect makes this world a better place . Religion is the real threat in our society . We are divided because of religion . Wars , killings , persecution , and discrimination ignited because of religion . See how these contrary as what they claimed that religion creates unity , safety , comfort ? IF religion never existed we probably won't face any of these problems . Instead religion gave people delusions of good afterlife if you follow GOD and obey all his commands . I advise y'all to ignore them cuz' clearly being a bigot and ignorant made them become an attention whore .

PEACE TO ALL .

I respect your opinion , I cant take that away from you . if it takes for you to move on out of that biases , why dont you direct that to the state ? Like I said and keeps on repeating myself just to spoonfeed you guys also , SAME S3X MARRIAGE in the CHURCH doesnt hold any weight on EQUALITY and ACCEPTANCE among HOMOSEXUALS and STAIGHT PEOPLE .

Stop beating the bush , you are barking at the wrong tree .

All you can come up with is something on a personal level by attempting to label me as CONTRADICTING . Your weak dawg .

[3nZ0y]

3nZOy .... ayaw na pag likoy likoy .... why do you want ma LEGALIZED , ACCEPTED and HONORED ang SAME S3X MARRIAGE ? Ang imong answer lang ha and not what was being portrayed maski asa ka mo adto na supports the same s3x marriage .

I guess I told you already. I don't believe in marriage anymore. Perhaps the legal aspect is there, but it is just that. So I don't care if same *** marriage is legalized and if there was a group of Christians who facilitated a same *** marriage.

Let me reiterate my points:

[1]I only reacted since it appears (to me) that while you love gays, as you claimed, there were many detrimental posts aimed at the gays in general.

@KAMIKAZE_007 ...

It is obvious that same s3x couples will always resort to this kind of excuse that we are HOMOPHOBICS . They have no idea on this although sila man ang subject . Like diri , I have a very firm and strong stand that I am against the same s3x marriage yet if they only knew me in person , I am even a protector and advocate of GAYS and LESBIANS in University of San Carlos in my small little way from bullies and critics and the real homophobics , they get all the respect they need because I understand them .

Its a form of comparison when we talk about ADDING INSULT na by far for has to use RAPE as an analogy because if perfectly fits the description . Ang BAYOT , kahibalo na ta na BAYOT kay nagpakabayot pa gyud . Sa RAPE , both are HEINOUS CRIMES yet you will root for the rapist who committed it na ang victim niya are minors . Like I said , if there is something bitaw mas taas pa sa level sa BAYOT which synonymous to being HEINOUS , mao na siya but thera is no term for it . Description lang .

Of course ang issue jud is about MORALITY because kung ang balaod ang hisgutan , di man pwede gyud kay wala man SAME *** MARRIAGE until they came up with the loophole na gamiton ang RITE of HOLY UNION , kinsay gi buang nila ?

To start lage , being HOMOSEXUAL is already wrong . Kung naa man gani BAYOT diri or TOMBOY , you dont need to repent , what you need to do , magpaka LALAKI or paka BABAY mo . Ayaw lang gud i abrupt aron di lisod .

There were more but kapoy na pangita.

[2] My poor mind just don't understand why RC (and its zealot followers) were so ardent with reacting to this issue claiming that their rite of matrimony were pirated that they even resort to calling the group as cult. Yet, in their very midst they have exactly the same people they prejudice and discriminate. (Until they use the loophole of their vocation to marry Jesus and start pederasty with sakristans ) On top of that, they don't call themselves cult for pirating the celebration of the All Saint's Day and All Soul's Day to counter the Aztec festival in honor of Mictecacihuatl (Lady of the Dead). It is as if the idea and rites of marriage is original and exclusive to RC?

Those two were among the reasons why I participated in this thread. But I was disappointed kay instead of getting answers, lahi na man hinuon ang dating. Let me borrow the words from Butchokoy

bai Springfield, I admire how you defend your argument even to the last drop of your sanity.

I know right from the start nga this is getting nowhere. I just did not expect things will turn out like this. I don't even think naay sakto og sayop, it's just that I find some posts FUNNY.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

[COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]I guess I told you already. I don't believe in marriage anymore. Perhaps the legal aspect is there, but it is just that. So I don't care if same *** marriage is legalized and if there was a group of Christians who facilitated a same *** marriage.

Then why are you here in the first place if you have nothing about SAM S3X MARRIAGE ?

Let me reiterate my points:

[1]I only reacted since it appears (to me) that while you love gays, as you claimed, there were many detrimental posts aimed at the gays in general.

You cant please everybody . It even appears in your post that you still rely on MY CLAIM so di gihapon ka firm and convince sa sulti nako . You have establish first to yourself that you do believed in what I say about HOMOSEXUALS before you can also state to me any negativity out of it and accuse me of harming or injuring my ladies and gentlemen .

My poor mind just don't understand why RC (and its zealot followers) were so ardent with reacting to this issue claiming that their rite of matrimony were pirated that they even resort to calling the group as cult. Yet, in their very midst they have exactly the same people they prejudice and discriminate. (Until they use the loophole of their vocation to marry Jesus and start pederasty with sakristans ) On top of that, they don't call themselves cult for pirating the celebration of the All Saint's Day and All Soul's Day to counter the Aztec festival in honor of Mictecacihuatl (Lady of the Dead). It is as if the idea and rites of marriage is original and exclusive to RC?

Asa ta padong ani ? Talkinga bout TRADITIONS and which is which ? WHy dont we start about CHRISTMAS ?

If ni exist na ang MARRIAGE lage somwhere else or who woul know , many centuries BEFORE CHRIST , the RITES of the SACRAMENT of HOLY MATRIMONY did not come from just somewhere else .

I may n ot have the datas for it but kanus-a ga sugod ang MCC ? Do you really think prior to MCC , dili ni mga KATOLIKO and members of other Christian denominations ang mga majority sa members ? Na ni balhin lang sila sa MCC because it gives them the ADVANTAGE because they share the same interest and goals but on an unorthodox method ? Naa na kay clue ?

Now if you rely on the imperfections of the church , what happened on the erring priest makes them excempted of their acts ? They too violated and we have to depend the in the system kung makasuhan ni sila , ma priso ba , ma bitay ba etc . But the fact remains , HOMOSEXUALITY is a SIN and it is nothing different from what the erring priest or whoever is a member of the flock for that matter did .

Those two were among the reasons why I participated in this thread. But I was disappointed kay instead of getting answers, lahi na man hinuon ang dating. Let me borrow the words from Butchokoy

I know right from the start nga this is getting nowhere. I just did not expect things will turn out like this. I don't even think naay sakto og sayop, it's just that I find some posts FUNNY.

If I quit in the discussion , does it really matter ? Woud you be getting the best answers ? Would you be satisfied because I am not vocal about it ? Actually , nothing really matters because what we have here are mere exchange oif ideas . Do you really think na everytime I mentioned to you mga BRADS that direct your concerns to the state and if ever naay taga gobyerno maka basa diri sa diskusyon , would make a move to LEGALIZED SAME S3X MARRIAGE sa COURTS ? I dont think so and like everyone else , they dont care about you GAYS either , swerte ka naay SPRINGFIELD .... who still share and understands your dilemmas .

And for the record , I am only here because I feel the need to let people know that the 7 SACRAMENTS are very holy regardless of what your religious beliefs are or maski atheist ka that RESPECT is also a key .

[Norad-II]

@ELYU ...

It has been repeatedly said for the nth time , HOMOSEXUALS could be the most loving , angelic , generous , etc people on earth but the fact still remains that as long as they are gay , it is a violation of the teachings of the church .

To save everyone the headache of reading through tons and tons of text from everyone involved, this basically sums up SPRINGFIELD's views. Him, being a Roman Catholic, believes that gays will never receive the sacrament of holy matrimony from the church because gays are violating church tenets. This, of course, is understandable, and we should let the church do whatever it wants since it is a religious institution that has a right to dictate what it allows and does not allow its members to do.

For the state to deny same *** couples the right to marry, however, now that is a different story. And if the state's reasons for their decision to withhold that right are religious reasons, then the state is clearly in the wrong and an egregious violation of the constitution.

Just to clarify: I am not taking sides here. I understand and respect the Church's decision not to allow gays to marry, in accordance with their beliefs and teachings. I am not in favor of the Republic of the Philippines withholding this right to gay couples, though.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

^^^

Basically , that sums it up in a very short message .

- why the church reacted
- why we say that homosexuals are barking at the wrong tree

I have said my piece , indeed it was a headache making people get the message regardless if they accept it or not . To those caufght in between , obviously the homosexuals , there are still people who supports your existence and these very people belongs and shares the views I am heartily embracing .

I now rest my case .

[only4jade19]

dghan gyud supak ani coz we are a conservative country.

[Elyu]

To save everyone the headache of reading through tons and tons of text from everyone involved, this basically sums up SPRINGFIELD's views. Him, being a Roman Catholic, believes that gays will never receive the sacrament of holy matrimony from the church because gays are violating church tenets. This, of course, is understandable, and we should let the church do whatever it wants since it is a religious institution that has a right to dictate what it allows and does not allow its members to do.

For the state to deny same *** couples the right to marry, however, now that is a different story. And if the state's reasons for their decision to withhold that right are religious reasons, then the state is clearly in the wrong and an egregious violation of the constitution.

Just to clarify: I am not taking sides here. I understand and respect the Church's decision not to allow gays to marry, in accordance with their beliefs and teachings. I am not in favor of the Republic of the Philippines withholding this right to gay couples, though.

Well said.

It's just sad how sacraments/practices/doctrines are more important than people's equality rights.

[Norad-II]

Well said.

It's just sad how sacraments/practices/doctrines are more important than people's equality rights.

Well, we can't expect to change the Church's view on this; it's a 2000 year old dinosaur that still hasn't gotten past its s3xual frustrations. If after 2000 years an institution still thinks that intercourse is bad, there really is no hope.

The only way this can change is if the state adopted a more secular view on things, which is admittedly difficult considering the people of the state lack the enlightenment. But if it did happen, then we'd at least be better off by a little bit.

[jumper_stage]

wala pako kadungog pud nga naay santos nga bayot og naay santos nga nalangit...