What probable month is the birth of JESUS?

[defender_1611]

---

i understand your point bai, the thing is, sa imung POV(which i respect kay POV gud) sorry bai ha pero maholuog ug ni atak man ka sa Katoliko nga sama ra pud nimu Christiano.
from the phrase ni adopt..so you are implying that catholics adopted pagan practices
through Christmas.

naa ko mga questions bai..
1.we know that the bible does not really teach we should celebrate Jesus' birthday
but did the bible say we shouldn't?

2.though there are obvious references that Christmas may have been adopted from pagan practice.
are we sure that Christmas is REALLY taken from a PAGAN practice?

3.granted that it was, what happened to the pagans at that time?were the results negative?

4.is it a form of compromise? or reaching out?

5.we both know that ROME was a pagan worshipper.
is rome still pagan today?

6.is there a possibility that Jesus birthday really falls in the month of december?

7. Does it really matter?

8. what does Christmas bring? does it bring hatred? anger? selfishness...
in fact when we hear the word Christmas it almost means Loving and giving.
well that statement is clearly relative, but at least that's how i see Christmas.


i think we ought to thank early Christians for being able to find a way to relate the gospel with pagan worshippers..
otherwise wala nay Christian nga naka abut sa atong panahon karun kay nahurot na guro ug pakaon sa mga Lion sa ilang panahon.

unsay pasabut kaha ni Paul ani bai?

To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.
---1 Corinthians 9:20-23

ok bay. ako lang ni tagsa tagsaon ug tubag ha? :D


First, may I say that I think God despises the modern idea of Christmas. The greedy business world has commercialized Christmas into a time of making billions-of-dollars. Christmas is not about buying, giving and receiving. It's not even about giving to the poor. It's about God giving us the gift of eternal life, at the expense of the life and blood of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. Thus, we celebrate Christ's birth into the world. To make Christmas anything less is wrong! It is sinful to exploit the name of Jesus at Christmas-time to make a buck. Sadly, this is all too common nowadays.

Answer to Question #1.

Christmas is not mentioned in the Bible. There is NO command for believers to observe or celebrate Jesus' birthday. It is a matter of personal choice. I think it is acceptable to observe Christmas; or not to observe Christmas. There is nothing in the Word of God which requires a Christian to observe Christmas, or Easter for that fact.

I personally do not believe it is sinful to celebrate Christmas, to a degree, anymore than it would be sinful to celebrate the birthday of a family member. I think it is appropriate to celebrate the Lord's birthday for those who choose to do so.

Answer to Question #2.

We have supposed CHRISTMAS to be the chief of the Christian holidays. Without asking questions, we have blindly assumed its observance must be one of the principal teachings and commands of the New Testament. We have supposed Jesus was born December 25th, and that the New Testament set this day aside as the chief Christian festival. We have supposed we exchange gifts because the wise men presented gifts to the Christ-child.

But, let's quit supposing, and look into history and the Bible for the FACTS!

The word "Christmas" means "Mass of Christ" or, as it later became shortened, "Christ-Mass." It came to us as a Roman Catholic mass. And where did they get it? From the HEATHEN celebration of December 25th, as the birthday of Sol the SUN GOD! It is, actually, an ancient rite of BAALISM, which the Bible condemns as the most abominable of all idolatrous worship!

It is not so much as MENTIONED anywhere in the New Testament. It was never observed by Paul, the apostles, the early true Christian Church!

The idea that Jesus was born December 25th, is one of the FABLES the Apostle Paul prophesied (II Tim. 4:4) would deceive the world in these latter days.

The plain truth is, Christmas is NOT Christ's birthday at all! And this festival, important as it seems to so many, is not of Christian, but of pagan — Babylonish — origin! But does that make any difference? Isn't it all right to go ahead and observe it anyway? Isn't the "Christmas SPIRIT" a good and splendid thing, regardless of how it got started? WE SHALL SEE!

Answer to Question #3.

There are many theories surrounding Christmas, such as the belief that it was created simply to convert pagans and/or replace the pagan celebrations around the winter solstice. The problem with these theories is two-fold. First, there is a lack of evidence. There was no big push in early church to create a birthday celebration for Christ. Of course, the church was and is "in the business" of spreading Christianity so there is no doubt that the early church fathers wanted pagans to convert and wanted celebrations to honor God.

Answer to Question #4.

Christians have very different opinions about this. I can see both sides and have no real strong convictions either way. There is some good and a lot not good about Christmas.

Clarification on question #5.

bay, is it a reference to the political or religious entity?

Answer to Question #6.


Most theologians agree that Jesus was NOT born in December. Truthfully, no one knows for sure when Jesus was born. Thus, one should not be dogmatic on this issue.

A person whose birthday is on February 29th only has a birthday once every 4 years (leap year). It certainly wouldn't be wrong for such a person to celebrate their birthday on a different date. Likewise, I see no harm in celebrating Jesus' birthday on December 25th, even if His actual birthday rests in a different month and date. I think it is a wonderful thing to celebrate the birth of the Savior, God's gift to mankind.

I think it's safe to say that all Christians observe "Good Friday," but a simple math calculation reveals that there are only 2-days between Good Friday and Sunday when Jesus rose from the dead. Obviously Jesus had to die on a Thursday; NOT Friday. 1st Corinthians 15:4 teaches that Christ "rose again the third day." Howbeit, I don't think it is sinful to observe the Lord's crucifixion on a Friday. Howbeit, the Bible does NOT command us to recognize Good Friday at all. Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper as a time of REMEMBRANCE when He gave His body and shed His blood for our sins. The Bible does NOT instruct us to observe ANY holidays.


Answer to Question #7.

The subject of Christmas in a Christian country is a sensitive one. Even though journalists, commentators, historians, and pundits make the origins of Christmas clear, the vast majority of Christians may respond: “Does it really matter? Who cares?”

The answer is, No. Search as we may in the writings of the Christians of the first three centuries we see no mention of such an observance. Even in church lists of proper assemblies and observances nothing is said of the birth of Christ, or Christ-mass. But, what about the Bible? Does it enjoin the annual observance of Christ’s birth on members of the Church? No.

One may ask, Why not? Judging from today’s observances - even among sincere and genuine Christians - it would be assumed that some where, some place in the Bible such a celebration would be mentioned. But, it is not. Indeed, only one annual - or periodic observance, depending on your view - is enjoined on the Christian Church. The observance, not of Christ’s birth, or even of his resurrection, but rather of his death is mentioned by Jesus and the apostle Paul. [Luke 22:19, 20; 1 Corinthians 10:14-17; 11:20-34]

Answer to Question #8.

Christmas Time is a happy time, a cheerful time, a time for family, giving and receiving of gifts, laughter and joy. Well that is certainly the picture that we’re led to believe. And whilst Christmas Time may not guarantee to bring happiness and cheer to all, it undoubtedly is associated with a certain collective festivity that is not repeated in quite the same way by any other time of the year.

Note: Regarding my answer on question # 8 im not saying that I celebrate christmas. I was just answering this question.


Regarding this passage of scripture: 1 Corinthians 9:20-23

Paul did not compromise his preaching or practice of the truth. However, in Acts 17 and other places he used different approaches in preaching the one true Gospel, and he taught we should modify our practices, on non-essential matters, for the sake of weaker believers (Romans 14), and as much as possible be at peace with everyone (Romans 12:18).

Thats all I can say bay. :)

[slabdans]

So unsa mang gyud imo gusto petsa ug bulan sa pasko? pag d ka mosogot nga december 25 gyud pag himo ug pole butohan ta na naay rules ha kanang mo buto nga d december 25 ang pasko d modawat ug 13month pay, bunos, ug pinaskuhan

[defender_1611]

ang december bai, kay dili jud ordinaryo, kay naa diha kasagarang bonus...hehehehe...
maski muslim malipay ug december na!

its ordinary day for me....but in regards with bonuses and 13th month pay mudawat kay its a mandate in the DOLE man gud. hehehe.

[slabdans]

its ordinary day for me....but in regards with bonuses and 13th month pay mudawat kay its a mandate in the DOLE man gud. hehehe.

oh unsa pa may value anang imong pakig bisog kabahin sa sayop sa pasko kung ikaw mismo mo adopt anang gilatid sa balaod kung ang xmass adopted by katholic from pagans belief unya ang mandate sa Dole regarding 13month, ug bunos is adopted by katholic dba mao ra na?

karon pangutan-on tkag balik december 25 gyud ang pasko noh?

[defender_1611]

oh unsa pa may value anang imong pakig bisog kabahin sa sayop sa pasko kung ikaw mismo mo adopt anang gilatid sa balaod

karon pangutan-on tkag balik december 25 gyud ang pasko noh?

ahaka gyud nimo bay slabdans ui. hehehe....it doesnt mean abig mudawat ko ug bonus ug 13th month pay. wala nay value? dili ui it is written in the contract that I can receive such benefits from the company. so thats why akong dawaton kay benefits mana. hehehe

[slabdans]

akong gi edit ang una nako post bay tana-awa ang depensya dba mao ra

[defender_1611]

@slabdans: o mao ra pero pag perma nako sa kontrata bay wala man musulti ang companya ug ang DOLE basta dili katoliko walay labot sa bonus ug 13th month pay exclusive ra ni sa katoliko wala man bay. ang gisulti sa kontrata ug mandated sa DOLE na basta every december naa koy madawat na bonus ug 13th month pay. usa na sa mga benefits sa companya na akong gi trabahoan bay. Dili lang ta maglalis ani bay kay mismo ikaw kahibaw naman guro ka ani.

[slabdans]

@slabdans: o mao ra pero pag perma nako sa kontrata bay wala man musulti ang companya ug ang DOLE basta dili katoliko walay labot sa bonus ug 13th month pay exclusive ra ni sa katoliko wala man bay. ang gisulti sa kontrata ug mandated sa DOLE na basta every december naa koy madawat na bonus ug 13th month pay. Dili lang ta maglalis ani bay kay mismo ikaw kahibaw naman guro ka ani.

pag adopt sa katoliko sa pagans belief ni perma silag kontrata? kahibaw ko ana bai pero lisod lng dawaton nato nga kita nahulog na ta sa sayop nga pagtu-o ug usahay ganahan nato usbon pero ang tinood di ta makahimo because there are lots of ways to force us to go that way.

mao nga kung di ka moosunod ana nga pagtoo kay adopted na sya sa pagans belief pahugti gyud imo pag tuo bai kay naa rba sa bible you cant serve to Gods

[noy]

ok bay. ako lang ni tagsa tagsaon ug tubag ha?


First, may I say that I think God despises the modern idea of Christmas. The greedy business world has commercialized Christmas into a time of making billions-of-dollars. Christmas is not about buying, giving and receiving. It's not even about giving to the poor. It's about God giving us the gift of eternal life, at the expense of the life and blood of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. Thus, we celebrate Christ's birth into the world. To make Christmas anything less is wrong! It is sinful to exploit the name of Jesus at Christmas-time to make a buck. Sadly, this is all too common nowadays.

Answer to Question #1.

Christmas is not mentioned in the Bible. There is NO command for believers to observe or celebrate Jesus' birthday. It is a matter of personal choice. I think it is acceptable to observe Christmas; or not to observe Christmas. There is nothing in the Word of God which requires a Christian to observe Christmas, or Easter for that fact.

I personally do not believe it is sinful to celebrate Christmas, to a degree, anymore than it would be sinful to celebrate the birthday of a family member. I think it is appropriate to celebrate the Lord's birthday for those who choose to do so.

Answer to Question #2.

We have supposed CHRISTMAS to be the chief of the Christian holidays. Without asking questions, we have blindly assumed its observance must be one of the principal teachings and commands of the New Testament. We have supposed Jesus was born December 25th, and that the New Testament set this day aside as the chief Christian festival. We have supposed we exchange gifts because the wise men presented gifts to the Christ-child.

But, let's quit supposing, and look into history and the Bible for the FACTS!

The word "Christmas" means "Mass of Christ" or, as it later became shortened, "Christ-Mass." It came to us as a Roman Catholic mass. And where did they get it? From the HEATHEN celebration of December 25th, as the birthday of Sol the SUN GOD! It is, actually, an ancient rite of BAALISM, which the Bible condemns as the most abominable of all idolatrous worship!

It is not so much as MENTIONED anywhere in the New Testament. It was never observed by Paul, the apostles, the early true Christian Church!

The idea that Jesus was born December 25th, is one of the FABLES the Apostle Paul prophesied (II Tim. 4:4) would deceive the world in these latter days.

The plain truth is, Christmas is NOT Christ's birthday at all! And this festival, important as it seems to so many, is not of Christian, but of pagan — Babylonish — origin! But does that make any difference? Isn't it all right to go ahead and observe it anyway? Isn't the "Christmas SPIRIT" a good and splendid thing, regardless of how it got started? WE SHALL SEE!

Answer to Question #3.

There are many theories surrounding Christmas, such as the belief that it was created simply to convert pagans and/or replace the pagan celebrations around the winter solstice. The problem with these theories is two-fold. First, there is a lack of evidence. There was no big push in early church to create a birthday celebration for Christ. Of course, the church was and is "in the business" of spreading Christianity so there is no doubt that the early church fathers wanted pagans to convert and wanted celebrations to honor God.

Answer to Question #4.

Christians have very different opinions about this. I can see both sides and have no real strong convictions either way. There is some good and a lot not good about Christmas.

Clarification on question #5.

bay, is it a reference to the political or religious entity?

Answer to Question #6.


Most theologians agree that Jesus was NOT born in December. Truthfully, no one knows for sure when Jesus was born. Thus, one should not be dogmatic on this issue.

A person whose birthday is on February 29th only has a birthday once every 4 years (leap year). It certainly wouldn't be wrong for such a person to celebrate their birthday on a different date. Likewise, I see no harm in celebrating Jesus' birthday on December 25th, even if His actual birthday rests in a different month and date. I think it is a wonderful thing to celebrate the birth of the Savior, God's gift to mankind.

I think it's safe to say that all Christians observe "Good Friday," but a simple math calculation reveals that there are only 2-days between Good Friday and Sunday when Jesus rose from the dead. Obviously Jesus had to die on a Thursday; NOT Friday. 1st Corinthians 15:4 teaches that Christ "rose again the third day." Howbeit, I don't think it is sinful to observe the Lord's crucifixion on a Friday. Howbeit, the Bible does NOT command us to recognize Good Friday at all. Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper as a time of REMEMBRANCE when He gave His body and shed His blood for our sins. The Bible does NOT instruct us to observe ANY holidays.


Answer to Question #7.

The subject of Christmas in a Christian country is a sensitive one. Even though journalists, commentators, historians, and pundits make the origins of Christmas clear, the vast majority of Christians may respond: “Does it really matter? Who cares?”

The answer is, No. Search as we may in the writings of the Christians of the first three centuries we see no mention of such an observance. Even in church lists of proper assemblies and observances nothing is said of the birth of Christ, or Christ-mass. But, what about the Bible? Does it enjoin the annual observance of Christ’s birth on members of the Church? No.

One may ask, Why not? Judging from today’s observances - even among sincere and genuine Christians - it would be assumed that some where, some place in the Bible such a celebration would be mentioned. But, it is not. Indeed, only one annual - or periodic observance, depending on your view - is enjoined on the Christian Church. The observance, not of Christ’s birth, or even of his resurrection, but rather of his death is mentioned by Jesus and the apostle Paul. [Luke 22:19, 20; 1 Corinthians 10:14-17; 11:20-34]

Answer to Question #8.

Christmas Time is a happy time, a cheerful time, a time for family, giving and receiving of gifts, laughter and joy. Well that is certainly the picture that we’re led to believe. And whilst Christmas Time may not guarantee to bring happiness and cheer to all, it undoubtedly is associated with a certain collective festivity that is not repeated in quite the same way by any other time of the year.

Note: Regarding my answer on question # 8 im not saying that I celebrate christmas. I was just answering this question.


Regarding this passage of scripture: 1 Corinthians 9:20-23

Paul did not compromise his preaching or practice of the truth. However, in Acts 17 and other places he used different approaches in preaching the one true Gospel, and he taught we should modify our practices, on non-essential matters, for the sake of weaker believers (Romans 14), and as much as possible be at peace with everyone (Romans 12:1.

Thats all I can say bay.

grabe ka taas sa imung tubag bai...ninglabad akong ulo ug basa...Lol

thanks for sharing. anyways..all points are taken bai...
ang ako lang point is, WE as individuals DO NOT fully know if the act was actually COMPROMISING or served as REACHING out
because we simply cannot know the fullness of the subject..only God does.
The best way to examine is actually throught its results...

PLUS..and UNLESS you are sure of accusing the Catholics to be associating with BAAL worship.then by all means...make it official.
do you know for sure? like as in 100% or let me rephrase the question, does anyone know if Catholics or early Christians DID base Christmas with the pagan practice?
and again granted that IT IS, isnt it a BLESSING for those who worshipped BAAL,pagan gods...
that eventually they CAME to know about JESUS? about salvation through HIM?
that's why i asked what happened to the pagan worshippers?

if we are so BLACK and WHITE about these things, how do you think we should be ABLE to reach out for people?

i hope you won't be so condemning against the Catholic Church just because there are things that you Do not agree with
because i hope we can agree on this, but there is a HUGE possibility that ALL of THIS is just a PRODUCT of a LONG history
of MISUNDERSTANDING, MISCONCEPTION and all the other misses...
DOES this matter to You as a Christian over Loving one another?over not judging others? over unity among the Christian Church?

i Believe the purpose for US not being able to know and understand EVERYTHING
is for to refrain FROM judging others...

of course PAUL did NOT compromised his faith..BUT there is a THIN line between compromise and reaching out...
ONLY God would know...Again, we can only examine if the act was under the state of grace through its RESULT.
lamian kag to The JEWS i became like a JEW, to those who are under the law, i also became like under the law...
PAUL was actually trying to establish a COMMON ground.
how do you think pagans would be able to relate with JESUS? of course through similar beliefs...
BUT what matters most is that early CHRISTIANS were albe to DIVERT their beliefs and finally
in the acceptance of Jesus as their LORD and SAVIOR.

The alledged pagan practice ADOPTED by the Catholic church
actually brought SALVATION to many of the pagans back in the days..
which would bring a smile on Jesus' face?
division among whose righteous or not? or a pagan accepting Him as Lord and Savior.
remember Jesus CAME for the SINNERS!

Like Heavy Metal Songs about God...though Heavy and Loud..with growling and screaming vocals, with an agressive attitude...
most Christians would not consider it Christian music, most Christian would find it compromising...
BUT those type of music are ministering to the kids who are Lost, who feel LEFT out by the standards of the church..
who feel condemned by US(Christians)...now they are singing their heart out for the Lord(only through heavy metal music)
but none the less, accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, Lives and hearts are CHANGED.

What happed with THE PAGANS again bai?

and are you really 100% sure if PAGAN worship and nagpaluyo sa Catholic Chrurch?

[defender_1611]

pag adopt sa katoliko sa pagans belief ni perma silag kontrata? kahibaw ko ana bai pero lisod lng dawaton nato nga kita nahulog na ta sa sayop nga pagtu-o ug usahay ganahan nato usbon pero ang tinood di ta makahimo because there are lots of ways to force us to go that way.

mao nga kung di ka moosunod ana nga pagtoo kay adopted na sya sa pagans belief pahugti gyud imo pag tuo bai kay naa rba sa bible you cant serve to Gods

hehehe...imoha pod na bay. kay kani akoa mao naman gyud ni akong beliefs bay. I respect your opinion bay. so case close nata.