The Universe - is it Created? or by Chance?

[Aethyr]

---

Aether, close your mouth when its full of bananas! hahahha! peez Aeth...

ikaw gyud pwede makig eye bol nimo buwag mis akong uyab ron.

hahahaha ayaw tawn tingalig mag pensing ta.

[chad_tukes]

Maybe you're referring to those zealots shouting in the streets with a megaphone.

If I believe in God, it doesn't mean that I would not believe in the Big Bang and Evolution.

Scientists, like Anthony Flew and Francis Collins, sees enligthenment of God after digging down on their field of study.

true, but there's a pretty huge chance you're a creationist. you believe in GOD, do you? so you believe that there is an intelligent designer, correct? you believe that there is a CAUSE to everything. that's the main point of this thread.

lastly, the debate regarding CAUSALITY has been repeated again and again. this thread is going nowhere.
Probably because, you don't seem to give a valid answer.

valid answers have been given before. most of them can be found in the now obsolete S&O board. too bad they took it out.

I'm already giving three solid arguments for the existence a Supernatural Being.

1. The beginning of the Universe from nothing points on a Creator that is beyond space and time.
2. The fine tuning of the Universe dictates an Intellegent Designer.
3. The presence of Life considering a lifeless Universe demands a Giver of Life.

In order to prove Atheism, you must disprove all these arguments and build your own argument that the Physical world (like matter and energy) is all there is. That there is nothing beyond the natural world.

if we follow your argument of causality, it would then beg the question, where did GOD come from? tag-anon na lang nako imong tubag daan ha --- "GOD simply exist. He is ever-existing, omnipotent, the beginning and the end, the first and last, the ALPHA and OMEGA..."

and crap like that.

[robert_papalid_ece]

non-creationist may ridicule the beliefs of the creationists... and vice versa... and could argue endlessly...

but the question was...
which belief is more "logical"? A. that there was someone (Supreme Being) who created the universe? or B. all of these is by mere accident?

"MY" answer is A.

[hitch22]

Well done, redhorse1L!

So, we're now shifting the theater to cosmology. Before I begin, by the way, they're not called THE BIG QUESTIONS for nothing. Would you recommend I submit this thesis as a candidate for Nobel Prize or perhaps for peer review at the National Academy of Sciences? It seems we have a clear-cut, unchallengeable, irrefutable answer to the question on the origin of the universe...the very question that still hangs over every serious cosmologist's head. As one cosmologist from the University of Chicago puts it: "If inflation is the dynamite behind the Big Bang, we're still looking for the match."

Ah, we've found the match. Problem solved.

[ethzneuron]

i believe the universe was created...

Spoiler! 

by chance.

[Hotmomma]

ikaw gyud pwede makig eye bol nimo buwag mis akong uyab ron.

hahahaha ayaw tawn tingalig mag pensing ta.

hahahahhah! pensing ba oi? ali diri! hahahahha!

[redhorse1L]

true, but there's a pretty huge chance you're a creationist. you believe in GOD, do you? so you believe that there is an intelligent designer, correct? you believe that there is a CAUSE to everything. that's the main point of this thread.



valid answers have been given before. most of them can be found in the now obsolete S&O board. too bad they took it out.



if we follow your argument of causality, it would then beg the question, where did GOD come from? tag-anon na lang nako imong tubag daan ha --- "GOD simply exist. He is ever-existing, omnipotent, the beginning and the end, the first and last, the ALPHA and OMEGA..."

and crap like that.

true, but there's a pretty huge chance you're a creationist. you believe in GOD, do you? so you believe that there is an intelligent designer, correct? you believe that there is a CAUSE to everything. that's the main point of this thread.
I don't know what you really mean by Creationist. We are not talking here of a 7 day creation.
We have the same scientific standpoint on how the Universe began:
- That the Universe started from the Big Bang.
- That gaseus matters and energy formed Heavenly bodies
- That our earth was once a molten piece of rock
- That single celled organisms starts to sprout around 4 Billion Years ago.

The only difference is that, you believe that these all were uncaused.
As for me, I believe that someone could have caused it.

And again, I'm giving you these 3 solid arguments for the existence of a Sumpreme Being.


1. The beginning of the Universe from nothing points on a Creator that is beyond space and time.
2. The fine tuning of the Universe dictates an Intellegent Designer.
3. The presence of Life considering a lifeless Universe demands a Giver of Life.

In order to prove Atheism, you must disprove all these arguments and build your own argument that the Physical world (like matter and energy) is all there is. That there is nothing beyond the natural world.

if we follow your argument of causality, it would then beg the question, where did GOD come from? tag-anon na lang nako imong tubag daan ha --- "GOD simply exist. He is ever-existing, omnipotent, the beginning and the end, the first and last, the ALPHA and OMEGA..."

That's my point! that Being should be beyond space and time.
If its beyond it, then it's not bounded to our space and time dimension.

If you can't disprove my arguments, and make a valid argument of you own (like the big bang just came out from nothing, or the universe is always there, or life begin to sprout by chance), how can you conclude that there is no God?

[redhorse1L]

Well done, redhorse1L!

So, we're now shifting the theater to cosmology. Before I begin, by the way, they're not called THE BIG QUESTIONS for nothing. Would you recommend I submit this thesis as a candidate for Nobel Prize or perhaps for peer review at the National Academy of Sciences? It seems we have a clear-cut, unchallengeable, irrefutable answer to the question on the origin of the universe...the very question that still hangs over every serious cosmologist's head. As one cosmologist from the University of Chicago puts it: "If inflation is the dynamite behind the Big Bang, we're still looking for the match."

Ah, we've found the match. Problem solved.

Sorry, but that cosmologist should not just find the "match", he should also answer where that dynamite came from.
Surely that dynamite don't just pop up from nowhere.

I'm already giving three solid arguments for the existence a Supernatural Being.

1. The beginning of the Universe from nothing points on a Creator that is beyond space and time.
2. The fine tuning of the Universe dictates an Intellegent Designer.
3. The presence of Life considering a lifeless Universe demands a Giver of Life.

In order to prove Atheism, you must disprove all these arguments and build your own argument that the Physical world (like matter and energy) is all there is. That there is nothing beyond the natural world.

[bungot25]

Well done, redhorse1L!

So, we're now shifting the theater to cosmology. Before I begin, by the way, they're not called THE BIG QUESTIONS for nothing. Would you recommend I submit this thesis as a candidate for Nobel Prize or perhaps for peer review at the National Academy of Sciences? It seems we have a clear-cut, unchallengeable, irrefutable answer to the question on the origin of the universe...the very question that still hangs over every serious cosmologist's head. As one cosmologist from the University of Chicago puts it: "If inflation is the dynamite behind the Big Bang, we're still looking for the match."

Ah, we've found the match. Problem solved.

universe is inflationary but it doesnt mean it can prove the Big Bang theory, its not been proven yet! but i tell you one of the famous like Hoyle, he said the universe is a trans-universe and created by a super intelligent being....

[robert_papalid_ece]

@bungot25: wow... multiverse... first time i've heard of this was on Jet Li's movie The One...

@redhorse: good to know naa nay katapat si hitch22... go go go mga pro-creationists!!! i once dared arguing with him and the others sa pikas thread... i ended up losing all my blood... you know... sa nosebleed...

support lng me ug basa ha... basta di lng mi ma-apil sa crossfire...

para lang jud sa akoa... if we are to depend lng gyud sa atoang kaugalingong logic... ug dili lng usa ta maminaw sa mga bantugang tawo ug mga siyentipiko kuno... youll be convinced jud... nga ang tanan adunay juy sinugdanan... ug imposible nga mukalit lng ug bang! universe na... para sa ako ra na ha... para safe...

but im a big fan of Bill Maher though... he's intelligently funny...