MERGED: Gay Marriage in the Philippines

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

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Okay. State of Grace. Im not very familiar with it, but I know that when a man marries a woman, whether mass wedding or special wedding, they only go through seminars. I havent heard of any activity prio to marriage that people go through to be in that "State of Grace."

Just like anything else from the sacraments , you have to be in the state of grace through the SACRAMENT of RECONCILIATION and basically , in laymans terms , that is going through a confession . And yes , before getting married , you have to go to confession .

As per my research, "State of Grace" is almost like the stage of Christian Perfection. How many marriage have we allowed in the rites of the Catholic Matrimonial Sacrament which we can straightforwardly say that the Groom and the Bride are in the stage of Christian perfection?

Dont make it sound like you are referring again your RIGHTEOUSNESS ISSUE . Its not . The church are only asking the couple to hear CONFESSIONS and that is it . Basically , you dont have any MORTAL SINS prior to that rite .

Is it even applicable to ordinary people? Can anyone ever be perfect in his Christian stage? As you said, Reconciliation depends on the sincerity. Hmmm...I doubt if the countless women who went through marriage with bloated stomach (ready to give birth) and men who F$%#ED around first before deciding to settle have indeed reconciled sincerely and have reached that State of Grace.

If they repent , yes . Now can HOMOSEXUALS repent ? YES but its hard . Because when they repent , that means they have to be straight again in accordance to the church doctrines .

The wrong that we are seeing in Gays using the rites of the Holy Matrimony is the same wrong that our marrying couples commit. Maybe in different ways, but wrong is wrong, regardless. Are these being strictly observed? I DONT THINK SO.

Wrong . Like I said , can HOMOSEXUALS lage repent ? If its strictly observed ? YES . I for one feels so guilty when I commit the same sin over and over again . Kay if di pa ko sincere , I would really have not cared at all of the sacrament of reconcilation but as human as we are , we are prone to commiting mistakes and sins .

[Butchokoy]

Just like anything else from the sacraments , you have to be in the state of grace through the SACRAMENT of RECONCILIATION and basically , in laymans terms , that is going through a confession . And yes , before getting married , you have to go to confession .



Dont make it sound like you are referring again your RIGHTEOUSNESS ISSUE . Its not . The church are only asking the couple to hear CONFESSIONS and that is it . Basically , you dont have any MORTAL SINS prior to that rite .



If they repent , yes . Now can HOMOSEXUALS repent ? YES but its hard . Because when they repent , that means they have to be straight again in accordance to the church doctrines .



Wrong . Like I said , can HOMOSEXUALS lage repent ? If its strictly observed ? YES . I for one feels so guilty when I commit the same sin over and over again . Kay if di pa ko sincere , I would really have not cared at all of the sacrament of reconcilation but as human as we are , we are prone to commiting mistakes and sins .

hala, grabeha sad a. d diay maka repent ang homosexual? sa ato pa kung homosexual na ka..wa na kay paglaum? d na ka pwede mag repent? because when you were born to be homosexual, I think you can only try to be straight but youll never be one. so ang mga straight ra diay ang anak sa ginoo ani? luoya pud tawon sa mga gays oi. as you said, the only way to attain the state of grace for a gay person is to become straight. Kana diayng mga bayot nga pari, pwede diay na sila mahimong straight? are you saying now nga way gamit ilang pagka pari cz theyre gays? butangi.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

hala, grabeha sad a. d diay maka repent ang homosexual? sa ato pa kung homosexual na ka..wa na kay paglaum? d na ka pwede mag repent? because when you were born to be homosexual, I think you can only try to be straight but youll never be one. so ang mga straight ra diay ang anak sa ginoo ani? luoya pud tawon sa mga gays oi. as you said, the only way to attain the state of grace for a gay person is to become straight. Kana diayng mga bayot nga pari, pwede diay na sila mahimong straight? are you saying now nga way gamit ilang pagka pari cz theyre gays? butangi.

I never said anything about STRAIGHT ra ang anak sa Ginoo lol nor ang mga BAYOT kay wala gi angkon .

Exactly ! Kana mga BATYOT na PARI ? Mga dakong makasasala na sila oi . Do you think kay PARI sila kay exempted sila ?

BUt being a HOMOSEXUAL is against the doctrines of the church thats why wala silay mahimo ana . Kung ang isa ka bayot nangawat , kung ikumpisal na niya pwede na siya mapasaylo sa sala na pagpangawat . Kung kanang bayota wala niya gi respeto ang ginikanan niya , kung ikumpisal an niya mapasaylo na siya . Pero once mo ingon ang bayot " pasaylo-a ko kay bayot ko " , mapasaylo man ka kung mag usab ka . Gets na nimo ?

[Butchokoy]

I never said anything about STRAIGHT ra ang anak sa Ginoo lol nor ang mga BAYOT kay wala gi angkon .

Exactly ! Kana mga BATYOT na PARI ? Mga dakong makasasala na sila oi . Do you think kay PARI sila kay exempted sila ?

BUt being a HOMOSEXUAL is against the doctrines of the church thats why wala silay mahimo ana . Kung ang isa ka bayot nangawat , kung ikumpisal na niya pwede na siya mapasaylo sa sala na pagpangawat . Kung kanang bayota wala niya gi respeto ang ginikanan niya , kung ikumpisal an niya mapasaylo na siya . Pero once mo ingon ang bayot " pasaylo-a ko kay bayot ko " , mapasaylo man ka kung mag usab ka . Gets na nimo ?

OT: gets kaau naku bai. gets kaau naku nga ang nagpadagan sa imong kinabuhi "Libro". Gets kaau naku nga ang imong mga desisyon sa kinabuhi ganabase sa "Libro". Gets kaau naku nga ang hinungdan nganung ingon ana na ka sirado ang imong panglantaw "Libro".

OT: I totally get it. Mao nay giingon bai nga magdaug na lang ta ani sa mga binuhatan nato as private persons.

OnT: Whether youre gay or not, its not all about it. Its about what you are as a person when no one is watching. Whether you get married as gay couple, or you get married as straights, whether you use whichever rites and whatever religious affiliation's practice, we all do wrong things. You have even accepted that Priests who are gay will never be in that state of grace, you must have forgotten that theyre the ones preaching the words of your Book and its rili not for you to say that theyre not forgiven from being gays, you are not God. God for me is not a BOOK. God is so much more than just whats in your book.

OT: Anyway... this is really not going anywhere. I still will stick to what I think is right. You havent really given anything realistic with your messages, its all in the Book. I can just read it if I want.

[3nZ0y]

I never said anything about STRAIGHT ra ang anak sa Ginoo lol nor ang mga BAYOT kay wala gi angkon .

Exactly ! Kana mga BATYOT na PARI ? Mga dakong makasasala na sila oi . Do you think kay PARI sila kay exempted sila ?

BUt being a HOMOSEXUAL is against the doctrines of the church thats why wala silay mahimo ana . Kung ang isa ka bayot nangawat , kung ikumpisal na niya pwede na siya mapasaylo sa sala na pagpangawat . Kung kanang bayota wala niya gi respeto ang ginikanan niya , kung ikumpisal an niya mapasaylo na siya . Pero once mo ingon ang bayot " pasaylo-a ko kay bayot ko " , mapasaylo man ka kung mag usab ka . Gets na nimo ?

Hmmm, interesting....So lemme just ask a few question. [1]Do you agree if I say that priesthood is also a 'gift of the holy spirit'? [2]Makaingon ba ka nga ang pagkapari one of the seven holy sacraments? Nga it is indeed a call?

If so, the person (priests) should also be in a state of grace. [3]Does the sacrament require these priests to change first into a straight man prior to receiving the sacrament? The way I understand it, the nuns and priests are married to Christ. [4]Do you agree on this statement?

[Albrecht]

dli na siya based on any statistics bai. i dont know how many gays or lesbians are there in the world. it was just a response to the previous comment about the number of gays vs str8 guys, the scarcity of real men. and failing to acknowledge the lesbians.

medyo lisod man pud gud i.acknowledge ang lesbians coz unlike gays medyo hilom man ni sila..

hala, grabeha sad a. d diay maka repent ang homosexual? sa ato pa kung homosexual na ka..wa na kay paglaum? d na ka pwede mag repent? because when you were born to be homosexual, I think you can only try to be straight but youll never be one. so ang mga straight ra diay ang anak sa ginoo ani? luoya pud tawon sa mga gays oi. as you said, the only way to attain the state of grace for a gay person is to become straight. Kana diayng mga bayot nga pari, pwede diay na sila mahimong straight? are you saying now nga way gamit ilang pagka pari cz theyre gays? butangi.

ummm sa ako lang pagsabot sa statement ni springfield sir kay before sila m.enter sa sacrament of marriage kay maforgiven ila mortal sins.. but i think after gays do repentance, before they even enter marriage just because of the fact that they are marrying the same *** makes them commit sin again.. that's just my own understanding lang pud ah..

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

OT: gets kaau naku bai. gets kaau naku nga ang nagpadagan sa imong kinabuhi "Libro". Gets kaau naku nga ang imong mga desisyon sa kinabuhi ganabase sa "Libro". Gets kaau naku nga ang hinungdan nganung ingon ana na ka sirado ang imong panglantaw "Libro".

Dont mistake my statements as being influenced by the bible , the only time ma influenced ka s abible kay if you understand it literally . I am still open minded and will always be . People who respects the bible and takes the bible by heart is not close minded , if ever man gani clsoe minded , dili ang bibliya ag nag mandar ana but ang reasoning sa individual .

How will I prove you wrong ? Kay if ang bible pa ga dikta sa akong kinabuhi , wala na unta bayot s aakong palibot nahurot na ug slavage because I would become a fanatic and a radical . Yet you know what is my stand on HOMOSEXUALITY .

OT: I totally get it. Mao nay giingon bai nga magdaug na lang ta ani sa mga binuhatan nato as private persons.

I agree with you . Only God can judge us .

OnT: Whether youre gay or not, its not all about it. Its about what you are as a person when no one is watching. Whether you get married as gay couple, or you get married as straights, whether you use whichever rites and whatever religious affiliation's practice, we all do wrong things. You have even accepted that Priests who are gay will never be in that state of grace, you must have forgotten that theyre the ones preaching the words of your Book and its rili not for you to say that theyre not forgiven from being gays, you are not God. God for me is not a BOOK. God is so much more than just whats in your book.

Bai technical na kaayo ang padungan nato ani kung ako pa i elaborate gyud when you want to talk about STATE of GRACE . Like I said , I never condemn HOMOSEXUALS getting married but they have to come up with a their own rite which is observed by their own ministries , own church , own cult , own community . Not the very RITE observed by the ROMAN CATHOLICS .

OT: Anyway... this is really not going anywhere. I still will stick to what I think is right. You havent really given anything realistic with your messages, its all in the Book. I can just read it if I want.

You call that denial because like I said in previous postings , unsay naa sa CHURCH WEDDING that will make you achieve such EQUALITY ? It doesnt hold anything at all but just a blessing from God according to the rites and rituals of the Roman Catholic Church .

If ang tumong ninyo is EQUALITY , then you are barking at the wrong tree , adto mo paghot sa STATE . The government which holds more weight the moment you want to see equality in the works as homosexuals . Ipa legalize sa ilaha ang SAME S3X MARRIAGE aron ang record ninyo sa FAMILY CODE is valid .

@3nZ0y ....

We all know where these questions will lead us into . I firmly believe also that you already know the answers of these but for the benefit of the doubt , I will answer it since its a question directed to me .

Hmmm, interesting....So lemme just ask a few question. [1]Do you agree if I say that priesthood is also a 'gift of the holy spirit'? [2]Makaingon ba ka nga ang pagkapari one of the seven holy sacraments? Nga it is indeed a call?

Its not a gift of the Holy Spirit although the HOLY ORDERS is part of the 7 HOLY SACRAMENTS . The 7 Sacraments and the 7 Gifts are two different things . Thats why I posted in previous replies that I am taking it back and I did apologized for mixing it up . Lastly , YES ... it is a calling .

If so, the person (priests) should also be in a state of grace.

They are supposed to be in the state of grace yet as human as they are like us , they are subject to imperfections and committing sins also . What the doctrines is asking from the priest kay they have to be at least in the state of grace when administiring the 7 sacraments otherwise walay meaning ang sacredness niya .

[3]Does the sacrament require these priests to change first into a straight man prior to receiving the sacrament? The way I understand it, the nuns and priests are married to Christ.

They are supposed to be straight . In the doctrines , HOMOSEXUALITY alone is a SIN by itself already . Although naay mga pari maka ipsot , its their heart by all means and we would really not know unsay purpose nila but if GAY sila yet they feel the calling , its theirs to assess . Yes again , we wont know unless nay mahitabo na like sexual assaults , abuse and the likes .

[4]Do you agree on this statement?

I agree on that statement a I do hope that you are not suggesting that Christ is GAY also because the priest are married to Him . Literally yes because people misunderstand what is MARRIAGE . Mao an ang dako kaayo na insulto because the LOVE being portrayed here is different from the LOVE being projected by the HOMOSEXUALS as seen by the MCC people og Baguio where they also want S3X to be sacred for them . That is LUST .

Honestly .... BRAD ... nakasuway na ka gi lubot ka ? Nag ORGASM ka ? Unsay lami ana since S3X man jud padungan nato ani ?

Dont be offended but ang logic lang ang i share nimo na how twsited it is bitaw . MAN is for WOMAN . P3NIS is for VAGINA dili ASSHOLE . Same applicable logic sa mga LESBIANS pod . Things existed because it is intended for something . Wala na siya ni exist unya INUTIL lang .

[3nZ0y]

@3nZ0y ....

We all know where these questions will lead us into . I firmly believe also that you already know the answers of these but for the benefit of the doubt , I will answer it since its a question directed to me .



Its not a gift of the Holy Spirit although the HOLY ORDERS is part of the 7 HOLY SACRAMENTS . The 7 Sacraments and the 7 Gifts are two different things . Thats why I posted in previous replies that I am taking it back and I did apologized for mixing it up . Lastly , YES ... it is a calling .

If it is a calling, then they were chosen by God, right? If that is the case, how come even [your] God wasn't able to make them into straight guys? Or why did he not choose a straight guy? Scarcity?

They are supposed to be in the state of grace yet as human as they are like us , they are subject to imperfections and committing sins also . What the doctrines is asking from the priest kay they have to be at least in the state of grace when administiring the 7 sacraments otherwise walay meaning ang sacredness niya .

SO what if these gays nga nagminyo were also in the 'state of grace' during the time they held the marriage rites?

They are supposed to be straight . In the doctrines , HOMOSEXUALITY alone is a SIN by itself already . Although naay mga pari maka ipsot , its their heart by all means and we would really not know unsay purpose nila but if GAY sila yet they feel the calling , its theirs to assess . Yes again , we wont know unless nay mahitabo na like sexual assaults , abuse and the likes .

Basically, the point I was trying to make was how they readily reacted when a Christian (mind you, it is not even RC) sect administered a same *** marriage and yet in their own ministry daghan sad og KABULASTUGAN (as you put it).

I agree on that statement a I do hope that you are not suggesting that Christ is GAY also because the priest are married to Him . Literally yes because people misunderstand what is MARRIAGE . Mao an ang dako kaayo na insulto because the LOVE being portrayed here is different from the LOVE being projected by the HOMOSEXUALS as seen by the MCC people og Baguio where they also want S3X to be sacred for them . That is LUST .

Well, I have high respect for Christ so I am not suggesting that. What I am trying to drive at was, since they believe in the sanctity of Christ and their vocation dili jud basta-basta dapat ang mamahimong pari, right? Now if they reacted so madly sa mga ordinary homosexuals, how come they let these homosexuals marry the head of their church?

That was the point we were trying to make right from the start. Marriage is not only about ***. Anyway, asa nga part sa MCC website ang imoha basis sa pag ingon nga LUST lang ang nag drive sa ilaha ug dili LOVE? Naa ba kay nakita nga wala nako nakita? Paki share daw kay basin usa na sa mga gifts sa holy spirit nga wala nako nakuha.

Honestly .... BRAD ... nakasuway na ka gi lubot ka ? Nag ORGASM ka ? Unsay lami ana since S3X man jud padungan nato ani ?

Kinsa'y ingong nga *** kapaingnan ani? Same *** marriage atoa gi estoryahan dili kay sexual intercourse. Usa ba pud ka sa naka misunderstand sa marriage, bay?

But to answer your question, wala ko kasuway og anal *** ug wala pa koy plano mosuway kay hugawan ko. It may sound so scripted but I am not even after ***. Dili na lang ko mo explain kay ma OT na.

Dont be offended but ang logic lang ang i share nimo na how twsited it is bitaw . MAN is for WOMAN . P3NIS is for VAGINA dili ASSHOLE . Same applicable logic sa mga LESBIANS pod . Things existed because it is intended for something . Wala na siya ni exist unya INUTIL lang .

Really? So question, ang girls dili ba sad mobuhat og oral and anal ***? If they do, is that abnormal? And what makes you say nga ***** is for vagina ONLY?

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

[COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]If it is a calling, then they were chosen by God, right? If that is the case, how come even [your] God wasn't able to make them into straight guys? Or why did he not choose a straight guy? Scarcity?

They are blessed . Dont stoop to sarcastic side comments . Heck I once felt the calling yet I knew its not for me . You dont have to be a priest to have that calling . Vocation directors now have their own ways of filtering this and examining the qualifications of would be priest ie seminarians . Its the church who ordains the priest not God , ikaw ba kabalo na ka ana . These are only blessings and sacredness , why still insist ?

SO what if these gays nga nagminyo were also in the 'state of grace' during the time they held the marriage rites?

HOMOSEXUALS will never be in the STATE of GRACE lage . What is so hard for you to understand ?

Basically, the point I was trying to make was how they readily reacted when a Christian (mind you, it is not even RC) sect administered a same *** marriage and yet in their own ministry daghan sad og KABULASTUGAN (as you put it).

Sanctions , investigations etc were made . Just because its existence is prevalent doesnt make it a right for the HOMOSEXUALS to make it a leverage .

Well, I have high respect for Christ so I am not suggesting that. What I am trying to drive at was, since they believe in the sanctity of Christ and their vocation dili jud basta-basta dapat ang mamahimong pari, right? Now if they reacted so madly sa mga ordinary homosexuals, how come they let these homosexuals marry the head of their church?

How did you know na walay sanctions nangahitabo ??

That was the point we were trying to make right from the start. Marriage is not only about ***. Anyway, asa nga part sa MCC website ang imoha basis sa pag ingon nga LUST lang ang nag drive sa ilaha ug dili LOVE? Naa ba kay nakita nga wala nako nakita? Paki share daw kay basin usa na sa mga gifts sa holy spirit nga wala nako nakuha.

This is my post number 127 from this thread . Take note of the red phrase because that is the exact statement which I seem to have hard time to find in the website nila unless gi tangtang nila na .

The issue here is ngano MAGPAKASAL man sila using the RITES of the SACRAMENT of MATRIMONY .

That is a very big insult to the RC church . Napa CRUCIFIX sa background , wala sila ngiluhi ?

Of course ang issue jud is about MORALITY because kung ang balaod ang hisgutan , di man pwede gyud kay wala man SAME *** MARRIAGE until they came up with the loophole na gamiton ang RITE of HOLY UNION , kinsay gi buang nila ?

To start lage , being HOMOSEXUAL is already wrong . Kung naa man gani BAYOT diri or TOMBOY , you dont need to repent , what you need to do , magpaka LALAKI or paka BABAY mo . Ayaw lang gud i abrupt aron di lisod .

Taken from their site :

With or without same-*** marriage laws in the Philippines, love is still the highest law, and LGBT people are entering into relationships and experiencing God's love in their sexual relationships.

Intawn , ayaw na gamita ang ngalan sa ginoo in promoting your LOVE kuno when it is obvious thats all LUST

Kinsa'y ingong nga *** kapaingnan ani? Same *** marriage atoa gi estoryahan dili kay sexual intercourse. Usa ba pud ka sa naka misunderstand sa marriage, bay?

Anticipated na siya BRAD . Even your questions are scripted na but for the sake of discussion , gi answer lang gihapon nako . The point BRAD is , do you really believed na EQUALITY lang ang gukod sa HOMOSEXUALS ? If dili tungod kay LUST , ngano sa RELIGIOUS RITES man sila ni eksena ? Dili man sa STATE where mas naay weight gyud ? Although speculation lang nako na because if accepted na mo sa church , SEXUAL INTERCOURSE between two individuals of the same s3x is also accepted na . I am not speaking in a typical in behalf of HOMOSEXUALS but look around you , unsay masulti nimo sa HOMOSEXUALS ilabi na s abayot when you talk about P3NIS . Dili ba SEXUAL dayon ?

But to answer your question, wala ko kasuway og anal *** ug wala pa koy plano mosuway kay hugawan ko. It may sound so scripted but I am not even after ***. Dili na lang ko mo explain kay ma OT na.

After so many pages and explanations on both sides , ni come out na OT na gyud ta because EQUALITY ra man diay gukod ninyo , but di man na ninyo ma achieved sa CHURCH WEDDINGS ang EQUALITY na gipangita ninyo . Anyways ... I would really love to know unsa na gipasabot nimo , markahi lang ug OT .

Really? So question, ang girls dili ba sad mobuhat og oral and anal ***? If they do, is that abnormal? And what makes you say nga ***** is for vagina ONLY?

Ikaw nag sulti ana dili ako . What I only said was the APPROPRIATENESS . But since when nahitabo ang S3X sa male and female didnt involved sa P3NIS and VAGINA ? Pero kamong mga BAYOT kahibalo mo na mga wala moy TALIB , ipamugos gyud ninyo sa LUBOT . Thats where my adjective na TWISTED comes in .

[Butchokoy]

OT:hahahahha!!!! ..nalingaw ko sa ***** ug vagina LOL! naabot na man na ana? bai Springfield, I admire how you defend your argument even to the last drop of your sanity. But - have you really taken the time to listen and understand from your heart what I and some others are trying to say? I think you are a profound person basing on your posts..and I think you know what we are trying to say...you just refuse to concede...or concede is too straightfoward...you just refuse to acknowledge the truth of the matter.

Kapila na ko niingon nga d na ko moargue hehe..but everytime I read your post..daghan kaayo kog mapangutana nga d jud nimo matubag in a more human sense, its always book based.

Anyway, ill continue reading and hope that 1 day..you will acknowledge that your truth is also our truth (if were basically reading the same book)...but our truth unfortunately is being denied by you...