The Gospel of Judas (Your views)

[dacs]

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Ug moingon ta, ang Katoliko sa panahon sa canons ga compile sa mga libro para sa kaayuhan sa mga magtotoo, dili ba diay pwede nalang nga hatagan ug kagawasan ang mga magtotoo to decide on their own? Let's say they did not burn all the other books however heretic to their judgment?

Let us start with Matthew 18:15-17 ('"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.'). Which church should decide? Should we choose our own church and make it decide for us? Or is there a church that have been given that authority? Even St. Paul could not decide on his own what should be done when certain controversies (when their claims had to be dealt with for the first time) arise. That is the very reason why the Council of Jerusalem was called.

Read Numbers 12:1-15. Miriam, Moses' sister, is rendered leprous for her refusal to submit to God's anointed authority. Hear her question : 'Is it through Moses alone that the Lord speaks? Does he not speak through us also?'. That question may sound familiar.

You may also refer to Numbers 16:1-35. Here, Korah objects to the authority of the heirarchy: "They stood before Moses and held an assembly against Moses and Aaron, to whom they said, 'Enough from you! The whole community, all of them, are holy; the Lord is in their midst. Why then should you set yourselves over the Lord's congregation?' ...They went down alive to the nether world with all belonging to them; the earth closed over them, and they perished from the community..." Nothing so graphic as that happens today, but the same objection can be heard.

[dacs]

It's good to know nga open minded ka bro. I hope it doesn't offend you pero karon pa lang daan, naa na koy doubts sa akong Catholic faith. Daghan kaayong dili mao.

Bisag pila na ka pari ug lay ministers akong gipangutana, bisag unsaon nilag justify ang ubang doctrines sa Catholic faith, dili gyud mabangbang ang nakasulat sa bible.

Pwede i-PM nimo, bro, ang ngalan sa mga pari nga imong gipangutana ug unsang mga petsaha ni nimo sila giduol? PM me for the answer. I will check your claim.

Regarding aning Gospel of Judas, nisamot kalubog ang history sa bible pwerte diayng daghanang gospel nga gi-ignore sa Catholic faith, tungod lang kay nisalig sila ni Irenaeus. Kung wala pa tingali gipang-ignore ang ubang gospels, mas klaro ang picture kung kinsa si Jesus ug ang mga disciples. However, I personally believe the Gospel of Judas wala makamenos sa divinity ni Jesus Christ.

Irenaeus, again? I don't think you are Catholic now. You sound more like the guy who posted comic strips at the 'religion' forum. Can you place your claims at that forum? I will gladly answer your claims as I have tried to answer the claims of that person who posted the comic strips.

Kaning simbahan, sukad sa una daghan na kaayog palpak. Sunod nga palpak ani, kaning birth control na sad. "Go out and multiply" bisag nagsaguyod na ang mga bata.

Who ever told you that the Church teaches that Catholics should have as many children as they can without regards to the temporal considerations for the child? Please refrain from saying anything about the Catholic Church without clarifying it with her.

[mosimos]

Ug moingon ta, ang Katoliko sa panahon sa canons ga compile sa mga libro para sa kaayuhan sa mga magtotoo, dili ba diay pwede nalang nga hatagan ug kagawasan ang mga magtotoo to decide on their own? Let's say they did not burn all the other books however heretic to their judgment?

When Catholics decided what Gospel is to be included in the Bible, it did not decide on the basis of what the people believe in their individual convictions.Â* The synod decided on the basis of its belief in Jesus Christ, the Trnity and all other doctrines passed down from the traditions of the disciples.Â*

Now when they read all of the Gospels they realize that other so called gospels do not jive with their faith in Christ.Â* So they decided only the 4 gospels could qualify as the guide to those who consider themselves Catholic (universal). The Church looks at its faith on the four gospels and they realize that the other gospels have twisted ideas about Christ.Â*

Now would fault those Catholic leaders in deciding what book will guide them in their faith?

Those who believe in Gnostic gospels should believe them if they want to.Â* They could establish their own religion and compile their own "Bible" based on the Gnostic gospel.Â* But in teaching those gospels, Gnostic believer should be honest enough to tell their listeners that they are not Christians and that they did not regard Christ as God.

Now alow me to clarify on thses. When the bishops decided on every matter of faith and morals, they always invoke the guidance of teh Holy Spirit which i think what really happened when they decided that only the 4 canonical gospels are appropriate for evangelization.

[undercover_lover]

Hohum.. another religious debate.

The Bible itself is a fantastic piece of literature. Sadly, for me, it is only literature; most of it, works of fiction and imagination. Same thing for
the Gospel of Judas.

the only post here that i agreed the most

[mosimos]

@tearsforfears...ako bro personally ok ra nako....kay di kaayo ko sold out how a few people controlled what is now the accepted dogma....edited version man ila gipagawas....nya unfair sad kay subjective na man gud kon i-edit na....take for example the book ni Dan Brown nga The Da Vinci Code....puerteng gubota na nuon....ako after reading about it...ok lang...so what if nag igat2 si Jesus with Magdalene...mas ganahan gani ko mag huna2 nga tinuod to nga conspiracy theory.....that will put Him above the other sages...kay He is in touch with the feminine side sad....all in all....i believe God is already within us.....dili na mistil pangitaon....

It's good to know nga open minded ka bro. I hope it doesn't offend you pero karon pa lang daan, naa na koy doubts sa akong Catholic faith. Daghan kaayong dili mao.

Bisag pila na ka pari ug lay ministers akong gipangutana, bisag unsaon nilag justify ang ubang doctrines sa Catholic faith, dili gyud mabangbang ang nakasulat sa bible.

Regarding aning Gospel of Judas, nisamot kalubog ang history sa bible pwerte diayng daghanang gospel nga gi-ignore sa Catholic faith, tungod lang kay nisalig sila ni Irenaeus. Kung wala pa tingali gipang-ignore ang ubang gospels, mas klaro ang picture kung kinsa si Jesus ug ang mga disciples. However, I personally believe the Gospel of Judas wala makamenos sa divinity ni Jesus Christ.

Kaning simbahan, sukad sa una daghan na kaayog palpak. Sunod nga palpak ani, kaning birth control na sad. "Go out and multiply" bisag nagsaguyod na ang mga bata.

1. Bisag pila na ka pari ug lay ministers akong gipangutana, bisag unsaon nilag justify ang ubang doctrines sa Catholic faith, dili gyud mabangbang ang nakasulat sa bible. - would you be kind to tell us unsay nakasulat sa bible nga dili ma justify sa mga pari?

2. Regarding aning Gospel of Judas, nisamot kalubog ang history sa bible pwerte diayng daghanang gospel nga gi-ignore sa Catholic faith, tungod lang kay nisalig sila ni Irenaeus. Kung wala pa tingali gipang-ignore ang ubang gospels, mas klaro ang picture kung kinsa si Jesus ug ang mga disciples. However, I personally believe the Gospel of Judas wala makamenos sa divinity ni Jesus Christ. - tsk, its very hard kung mosulti ta sa butang nga dili ta kabisado ba. Â*Mahulog man ta ani nga gapataka lang. Unsay nisalig kang Ireneaus? Ireneaus is only one entity and I dont think that other people did not think about the correctness of the gospel of judas that they rely everyhting to St. Ireneaus.

3.Kaning simbahan, sukad sa una daghan na kaayog palpak. Sunod nga palpak ani, kaning birth control na sad. "Go out and multiply" bisag nagsaguyod na ang mga bata. - again overgeneralization without concrete basis. Â*Birth control palpak? I advise you to read first the papal encyclical "humanae vitae" before you could even say that the birth control stance of the Church is palpak. Â*

[mosimos]

GOSPEL OF JUDAS IS A GNOSTIC GOSPEL OF LITTLE VALUE TO CHRISTIANS, SAYS ANALYST

New York, April 17, 2006 (CNA) - The latest media frenzy over the Gospel of Judas reveals “the [secular] media's profound ignorance of ancient history,� says Brian St. Paul, editor of Crisis Magazine, in his April 13th e-letter to readers.

The third-century manuscript claims that Jesus took Judas aside three days before the Last Supper and asked the apostle to turn Him in. In turn, the secular media has reported, Judas wasn't such a bad guy after all and Christianity may have gotten the whole thing wrong from the start.

But Brian St. Paul points out that the Gospel of Judas is one of the many Gnostic gospels, which “offer no reliable historical insight into the actual events of the first century.� In sum, the Gospel of Judas is “hardly a theological earthquake.�

“Gnosticism was a parasite theology. It latched onto whatever religion was available and rewrote the host's scriptures and doctrines to fit its own unique beliefs,� explains St. Paul. “Often, the villains of the original religion were turned into the heroes of the Gnostic variation.�

St. Paul explains that one of the primary tenets of Gnosticism is salvation through hidden or secret knowledge. The Gospel of Judas begins by stating that it is “the secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation with Judas Iscariot.�

“While the Gospel of Judas sheds no light on historical Christianity, it is nevertheless a significant find,� says St. Paul. “After all, it's a pretty big deal when an ancient work long considered lost is rediscovered. And the document does flesh out the heavenly pantheon of second-century Gnosticism.�

St. Paul concludes by quoting St. Irenaeus and his comments in A.D. 180 on the historical unreliability of the Gospel of Judas: “[The Gnostics] declare that Judas the traitor was thoroughly acquainted with these things, and that he alone, knowing the truth as no others did, accomplished the mystery of the betrayal; by him all things, both earthly and heavenly, were thus thrown into confusion.�

“They produce a fictitious history of this kind,� he added, from “which they style the Gospel of Judas� (Adversus haereses 1:31:1).

[undercover_lover]

Hohum.. another religious debate.

The Bible itself is a fantastic piece of literature. Sadly, for me, it is only literature; most of it, works of fiction and imagination. Same thing for
the Gospel of Judas.

the only post in this thread that i agreed the most

[tearsforfears]

DACS,

No need to PM. Here are the people I questioned, but can't exactly remember when since I had these questions lingering in my mind for a few years already. 1. Fr. Butch Señoron-previously assigned at Maslog, but presently in Carcar; Fr. Mike Hisoler, at that time Parish Priest of DAS, Toledo City (dunno if he's still the parish priest); Msgr. Gerardo Jumao-as, school chaplain of Andres Soriano Memorial School; Rey Nadela, former Seminarian now working at Citibank Ortigas; Mr. Vicente Quijano (sadly, he's deceased).

"Irenaeus, again? I don't think you are Catholic now. You sound more like the guy who posted comic strips at the 'religion' forum. Can you place your claims at that forum? I will gladly answer your claims as I have tried to answer the claims of that person who posted the comic strips." - Don't associate me with the guy who posted comic strips. I think for my own, and I don't want anything to do with that guy. Mine are questions that have so far not been satisfactorily answered. You think I'm not Catholic? I am. My parents are. In fact, my whole clan is. But you can't stop human nature; being curious and inquisitive.

"Who ever told you that the Church teaches that Catholics should have as many children as they can without regards to the temporal considerations for the child? Please refrain from saying anything about the Catholic Church without clarifying it with her." - Granting that the Church has been doing its job, how come our population continues to grow, despite the so-called efforts of the church? Has it done anything EFFECTIVE to curb this problem?

[tearsforfears]

Bro Mosimos,

Convince me with regard to these:
1. Sculpting of an image of God the Father.
2. Requirement of payment during baptism, wedding, burial. Why are we denied the blessings when we can't pay right then and there? I hate these coz it happened twice to our family. Grrr....

I got more questions, but do convince me of these.

[Visual C#]

Guys, the issue is the Gospel of Judas. While I appreciate a good debate... religious debates have been done to death on Istorya. So please, get back on topic.