Should Religious Organizations Open their Books to Public Scrutiny?

[vipvip68]

@ TS: i think its upto the parishioners to demand that from their parishes, respective to RC.... but i don't agree any people who are not concerned with the group to peek into matter with which he has no business with.... If the parishioners donated money, then MAYBE they can request something like that.... nganu gud tawn mag apil2x ang athiest, muslim or katoliko sa financial statement sa grupo ni brother Eli? something ing ana ba.... I know some parishes posting their income from donations quarterly on a bulletin board with expenses.... but i don't think that would satisfy anyone who wants to look for mud....

Again, if you are a religious group then it is understood that what you are doing is for the good of the community. My point is very simple.... plain disclosure, transparency lang...

So why would these religious groups be concerned about other people knowing about their financial data.

This can be a good marketing tool for religious groups to convince people of other faiths that they are spending their money on good causes and can even boost their donations.

Ang katong religious groups nga klaro nga binuang maoy hadlok mu pakita sa ilang financial reports. That's the beauty of disclosure as it not only minimizes corruption and abuses but it also discourages phoney religions that are just in it for money.

If you are not doing anything wrong... then you have nothing to hide... so ngano hadlok man ka mu pakita sa uban tao? Is it because mahadlok sila makita ilang corruption and wala nay mu donate?

Also, why are you scared of scrutiny? Criticisms can be taken constructively and some even take the form of suggestions so the religious groups can better appropriate their spending. Criticisms are a form of check and balance because not all religious groups are as honest as they want you to believe.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

I am just wondering ... is this out of the issue na ni exist involving ROMAN CATHOLICS ? If yes , I am pretty sure dili ang mga KATOLIKO ang una mo sulti ug NO lol .

Second , why should we focus on scrutinizing RELIGIOUS ORGNIZATIONS when in fact , these money are donations which is by defitnion , given heartily . UNlike sa GOVERNMENT TAXES ... it makes more sense na kana ang angay i SCRUTINIZE ug una and if ever man gani makita ninyo asa padong ang buhis ninyo , bahalag dili ko authorized in behalf of VATICAN to speak for them na ok ra kaayo ninyo i check jud ang books sa Katoliko , if not all the other religious organizations .

[vipvip68]

I am just wondering ... is this out of the issue na ni exist involving ROMAN CATHOLICS ? If yes , I am pretty sure dili ang mga KATOLIKO ang una mo sulti ug NO lol .

Second , why should we focus on scrutinizing RELIGIOUS ORGNIZATIONS when in fact , these money are donations which is by defitnion , given heartily . UNlike sa GOVERNMENT TAXES ... it makes more sense na kana ang angay i SCRUTINIZE ug una and if ever man gani makita ninyo asa padong ang buhis ninyo , bahalag dili ko authorized in behalf of VATICAN to speak for them na ok ra kaayo ninyo i check jud ang books sa Katoliko , if not all the other religious organizations .

I. This thread involves all religious organizations.. not only the Catholic Church.

II. I focused on religious organizations because they are non-profit organizations and are therefore exempted from paying taxes. But unlike other non-profit organizations, religious organizations are not required to disclose financial reports to prove them being non-profit organizations. This setup results in very little transparency and provides a system prone to abuse and manipulation by scrupulous people who take advantage of this for financial gains. I'm sure a lot of people here are familiar with religious leaders who have enriched themselves because of this...

III. I've also pointed out several cases where donations are used for personal needs instead of church programs. This all the more became an issue when the Vatican Bank came under investigation because of alleged money laundering violations. Another issue also cropped up when a German Catholic bank had investments in defense companies, tobacco and a certain contraceptive manufacturer... these investments run contrary to the Catholic Church teachings. This raises the question on whether there needs to be more transparency with regards to how the church is spending the money. These religious organizations are supposed to be non-profit organizations... Yet we have lots of church leaders who have enriched themselves, live in mansions and have lavish lives.


All I'm asking for is whether there should be more transparency so these abuses will be minimized... and that these donations that people are giving heartily will actually reach the needy.

[peewee_toot]

malain ta...

kumusta na kaha tong vatican bank sa?

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

I. This thread involves all religious organizations.. not only the Catholic Church.

I might have overlooked that but thing in mind , and you may disagree with it , what pushed you to start this topic ? Hehe ... because the Vatican is so wealthy right ?

II. I focused on religious organizations because they are non-profit organizations and are therefore exempted from paying taxes. But unlike other non-profit organizations, religious organizations are not required to disclose financial reports to prove them being non-profit organizations. This setup results in very little transparency and provides a system prone to abuse and manipulation by scrupulous people who take advantage of this for financial gains. I'm sure a lot of people here are familiar with religious leaders who have enriched themselves because of this...

A lot ! if you want to get rich quick , 3 ra jud ka industry sudlan nimo . You become a GAMBLING LORD , DRUGLORD and PRAISE the LORD .

III. I've also pointed out several cases where donations are used for personal needs instead of church programs. This all the more became an issue when the Vatican Bank came under investigation because of alleged money laundering violations. Another issue also cropped up when a German Catholic bank had investments in defense companies, tobacco and a certain contraceptive manufacturer... these investments run contrary to the Catholic Church teachings. This raises the question on whether there needs to be more transparency with regards to how the church is spending the money. These religious organizations are supposed to be non-profit organizations... Yet we have lots of church leaders who have enriched themselves, live in mansions and have lavish lives.

Big entities are always subject to scrutiny and investigations . An example would that be VATICAN itself but then as long as these accusations and investigations are not or yet proven ... it does not constitute anything at all na angay siya i subject for verification . They have better things to do rather than watched the church like a hawk .

For example ... kani si APOLLO QUIBOLOY ... who cares about TRANSPARENCY when in fact , it does not need a rocket scientist to figure out that he is ENRICHING himself .

Now my question is , if he indeed is proven in court na nag pa enrich siya ... what crime did he commit ?

All I'm asking for is whether there should be more transparency so these abuses will be minimized... and that these donations that people are giving heartily will actually reach the needy.

It doesnt make any sense at all if these HEARTILY GIVEN DONATIONS are meant for the needy . Might as well deretso na lang unta nila sa needy , sure pa madawat na walay kupit .

These donations are meant for a lot of things and di lang para sa needy .

[vipvip68]

I might have overlooked that but thing in mind , and you may disagree with it , what pushed you to start this topic ? Hehe ... because the Vatican is so wealthy right ?

Actually, ang naka start nako sa topic is when I heard about a certain parish nga ang priest nag buhi lang ug iyang mga kababayan. The donations were spent for people from his hometown instead of for the parish. Maka ingon gyud ka nga abusado kaayo ang pari... pero there are no systems of check and balance man sad so how will the faithful know if their donations are being used properly? Ang solution ra gyud is transparency and full disclosure.

Big entities are always subject to scrutiny and investigations . An example would that be VATICAN itself but then as long as these accusations and investigations are not or yet proven ... it does not constitute anything at all na angay siya i subject for verification . They have better things to do rather than watched the church like a hawk .

There's no need for investigation or proof.. that German Church already apologized for investing the money in weapons manufacturers, tobacco companies and pharmaceutical companies that make contraceptives. More transparency would have prevented this from happening in the first place.

For example ... kani si APOLLO QUIBOLOY ... who cares about TRANSPARENCY when in fact , it does not need a rocket scientist to figure out that he is ENRICHING himself .

Now my question is , if he indeed is proven in court na nag pa enrich siya ... what crime did he commit ?

Sa atong legal system... wala! because he is manipulating the system. He does however have a moral obligation to his flock who gave their donations expecting that he will use it for the benefit of all and not just for himself.

With transparency, if his followers have conclusive proof nga he is just enriching himself... then common sense dictates that they will stop giving him money. Transparency allows everyone equal access to information and prevents religious groups from committing abuses.

It doesnt make any sense at all if these HEARTILY GIVEN DONATIONS are meant for the needy . Might as well deretso na lang unta nila sa needy , sure pa madawat na walay kupit .

These donations are meant for a lot of things and di lang para sa needy .

Thats why we have philanthropists / anonymous donors ... / weekend groups that do socio-civic activities. These people do good as well. Their work has a direct effect sa community pa gyud unlike sa Church where a 100 peso donation would only result in around 80 pesos or less aid to the needy... naa pa may "operational expense" sa church.

Makalagot lang when some people give money to the church "para ma langit sila"... some would say nga that is charity.. pero para nako... ilang objective is not really to help others... pero they are just donating to save their own asses.

Mas bilib pa ko anang people who aren't so religious yet find the time to give money , create a foundation or really do things to help the needy. They do good not because of their fear of going to hell ... but they do good out of their own genuine goodness and humanitarianism.

[Xilcher]

naa ko question..

Ngano man ang mga katoliko ra i single out?
ug ngano man ang ubang religion kusog mangayo donation sa kadalanan..
naa pa pinugsanay baligya religious item..kahuman kusog mangdaut sa katoliko?

Di ba sala man mag judge ug mangaway?
sorry TS... wa ka labot..discussion ra man atoa..

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

Actually, ang naka start nako sa topic is when I heard about a certain parish nga ang priest nag buhi lang ug iyang mga kababayan. The donations were spent for people from his hometown instead of for the parish. Maka ingon gyud ka nga abusado kaayo ang pari... pero there are no systems of check and balance man sad so how will the faithful know if their donations are being used properly? Ang solution ra gyud is transparency and full disclosure.

Even if there is a check and balance but walay gi buhat ang mga parishioners , that certain parish priest will be like that mintras walay ni badlong niya with or without TRANSPARENCY .

There's no need for investigation or proof.. that German Church already apologized for investing the money in weapons manufacturers, tobacco companies and pharmaceutical companies that make contraceptives. More transparency would have prevented this from happening in the first place.

In light of the scenario ... why is TRANSPARENCY is needed if they only invested ? TRANSPARENCY is needed when you are making profits and how you are about to spend it .

Sa atong legal system... wala! because he is manipulating the system. He does however have a moral obligation to his flock who gave their donations expecting that he will use it for the benefit of all and not just for himself.

And like I said ... everyone knows he is only enriching himself and not the church . Why is he still getting richer each and every day ?

With transparency, if his followers have conclusive proof nga he is just enriching himself... then common sense dictates that they will stop giving him money. Transparency allows everyone equal access to information and prevents religious groups from committing abuses.

That is an implication ilabi na sa Katoliko na hantod karon nagpaka buta ug bungol lang because we all know how corrupt is vatican but why do we still donate every mass offering ? nagpaka buta ug bungol lang ba ang Katoliko ?

Thats why we have philanthropists / anonymous donors ... / weekend groups that do socio-civic activities. These people do good as well. Their work has a direct effect sa community pa gyud unlike sa Church where a 100 peso donation would only result in around 80 pesos or less aid to the needy... naa pa may "operational expense" sa church.

Then why push the church to do the jobs of the PHILANTROPIST and ANONMOUS DONORS ?

Makalagot lang when some people give money to the church "para ma langit sila"... some would say nga that is charity.. pero para nako... ilang objective is not really to help others... pero they are just donating to save their own asses.

Bai ... 2010 na ta karon .

Mas bilib pa ko anang people who aren't so religious yet find the time to give money , create a foundation or really do things to help the needy. They do good not because of their fear of going to hell ... but they do good out of their own genuine goodness and humanitarianism.

Naa sad uban ingon ana maski 2010 na and that is because they are scared of going to hell .

[masakiton]

\Second , why should we focus on scrutinizing RELIGIOUS ORGNIZATIONS when in fact , these money are donations which is by defitnion , given heartily . UNlike sa GOVERNMENT TAXES ... it makes more sense na kana ang angay i SCRUTINIZE ug una and if ever man gani makita ninyo asa padong ang buhis ninyo , bahalag dili ko authorized in behalf of VATICAN to speak for them na ok ra kaayo ninyo i check jud ang books sa Katoliko , if not all the other religious organizations .

naa ra pud sa member kung mo stay or dili sa iya religious organization

[peewee_toot]

naa ko question..

Ngano man ang mga katoliko ra i single out?
ug ngano man ang ubang religion kusog mangayo donation sa kadalanan..
naa pa pinugsanay baligya religious item..kahuman kusog mangdaut sa katoliko?

Di ba sala man mag judge ug mangaway?
sorry TS... wa ka labot..discussion ra man atoa..

pwede ra pd sa tanan arn fair...