MERGED: FEDERAL DEMOCRACY: A solution to the sick country, the Philippines.

[okah]

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Sakto ni.. ang issue ani kay fair play. Ang situwasyon karon kai ang Manila naay usa ka kamot sa atoang bulsa. Kahibalo ba mo ngano nag-guerra ang U.S. og ang England sa una? Tungod pud ani.. dako kaayong tax ang gibutang sa US inya halos tanan gipadala ra sa England. Pobre kaayu ang US atong panahona.. mao na nisukol sila sa England. Basig angay sad ni nato buhaton diri, kai gisaput nako aning mga tagalog nga kusog kaayo manaway sa mga probinsyano, pero dili maulaw sa ilang pag-kawat sa atoang kuwarta.

Kana brod ok kau, unsaman langsad ka butar ko nimo.

[Jaggernought]

This already happens in the present system. And I don't think federalism will encourage total control since national defense would still be at the federal, not the state level. In all other respects with regards to this, federalism will be no worse than the current system. The police are already under the control of the mayors in the present set-up anyway, so transferring control over to the governor/premier level won't provide more control to local politicians than currently already exists.

Yes Partially agree for the control, how about the survivability of each federal state, can they stand alone and compete globally, economically I think we are still so frail.
I'm not against federalism but it should be timed at the most appropriate period.

[RMK711]

Yes Partially agree for the control, how about the survivability of each federal state, can they stand alone and compete globally, economically I think we are still so frail.
I'm not against federalism but it should be timed at the most appropriate period.

They are surviving now, so what makes you think they won't survive when federalism is in place. Under sa present nga system, even the poorest provinces are remitting most of their taxes to manila. Does that sound fair to you? In Cebu, our average income is lower than that in Manila, yet we remit most of our taxes to them.

If you leave people alone and let them fend for themselves, I believe they will do better. It's wrong to think that subsidizing regions and propping them up will be better for them in the long run, they will just become dependent and lazy. Federalism also allows support for poorer states, they practice this in Australia, because the Federal government still has its own funds which it can funnel to places as it sees fit. The only difference is that the funds are limited under the federal system, as opposed to nearly unlimited under the present system and in our case the money is not being funneled into the places that need them most, but are funneled to manila where it gets lost in a black hole. In my opinion, that's not a bad thing.

[laplink]

Sakto ni.. ang issue ani kay fair play. Ang situwasyon karon kai ang Manila naay usa ka kamot sa atoang bulsa. Kahibalo ba mo ngano nag-guerra ang U.S. og ang England sa una? Tungod pud ani.. dako kaayong tax ang gibutang sa US inya halos tanan gipadala ra sa England. Pobre kaayu ang US atong panahona.. mao na nisukol sila sa England. Basig angay sad ni nato buhaton diri, kai gisaput nako aning mga tagalog nga kusog kaayo manaway sa mga probinsyano, pero dili maulaw sa ilang pag-kawat sa atoang kuwarta.

tumpak jud bro. Ubos jud kaayo ilang tan-aw nato nga taga-probinsya. napay batasan nga dili jud magpalupig. Pero para nako layo rana cla sa atua kay mga tapulan mana kaayo cla, maayong lang sa sugo.

To think baya, ang kita baya nga taga probinsya ang daghan ug talent. dba? maski sa kanta, boxing ug uban pa, Sikat ang probinsyanong pinoy...

Unsa ramay sikat sa ilaha? dba ang pagpangurakot or pagkahakug sa kwarta nga dili ilaha.

[BIGMAN]

They are surviving now, so what makes you think they won't survive when federalism is in place. Under sa present nga system, even the poorest provinces are remitting most of their taxes to manila. Does that sound fair to you? In Cebu, our average income is lower than that in Manila, yet we remit most of our taxes to them.

If you leave people alone and let them fend for themselves, I believe they will do better. It's wrong to think that subsidizing regions and propping them up will be better for them in the long run, they will just become dependent and lazy. Federalism also allows support for poorer states, they practice this in Australia, because the Federal government still has its own funds which it can funnel to places as it sees fit. The only difference is that the funds are limited under the federal system, as opposed to nearly unlimited under the present system and in our case the money is not being funneled into the places that need them most, but are funneled to manila where it gets lost in a black hole. In my opinion, that's not a bad thing.

Got it RMK, very well stated huh. I salute you.

[redtag]

mao jud....magpakadato cla sa kwarta nga dli ilaha....kwarta nga dli ila hinagoan....cge lang na lingkod mga tawhana wlay nahimo....

[masakiton]

repost.. asa aman to c RMK711 ..

Sure, federalism won't eliminate corruption, just take a look at Indonesia. But it allows corruption to be dispersed, and hence, the wealth to be dispersed as well rather than being concentrated in one area. Take a look at Bali in Indonesia and compare it with Cebu. They have it so much better than us, so many more tourists, that's because they have a lot of autonomy and the local people there are said to be better than the average Indonesian.

sir . unsa imo pasabot ani?? federal system ang indonesia?

Category:Federal countries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
File:Map of federal states.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

sa ako nahibaw an ang malaysia ang federal dili ang indonesia

note:
before ang singapore is part sa malaysia which has federal system
pobre ang lugar... kadto under pa sila sa federal system
pero after na kick out sila sa country... diha sila na dato


its not the system but the people who runs the system

[Romeojin]

I agree with you that federalism won't necessarily make the whole country richer, but there is evidence that it allows regions to prosper more than the capital. Manila and Luzon will probably suffer the most because they are so used to being subsidized by the rest of the country, but ultimately the best cities/regions with the best people will succeed. It's about fairness more than anything else. There's no question that Cebu has succeeded despite the odds stacked against us in the current system, but there's no doubt that more infrastructure and therefore more wealth, would accrue to Cebu if we didn't have to remit most of our money to Manila.

Secondly, there is a distinct level of bureaucratic inefficiency to centralizing things, all corruption money goes to Manila, making its politicians fat, arrogant and lazy. If you want to put up a BPO you have to not only secure local licenses, you have to go to Manila and get PEZA certification as well. I'd have to wonder where you got your information that federalism is more expensive than centralized. In Australia their GST is only 10%, our VAT is 12%. Their income tax is higher, but that's not because of federalism but rather because schooling is free until college, and even private schools are subsidized by the government.

Sure, federalism won't eliminate corruption, just take a look at Indonesia. But it allows corruption to be dispersed, and hence, the wealth to be dispersed as well rather than being concentrated in one area. Take a look at Bali in Indonesia and compare it with Cebu. They have it so much better than us, so many more tourists, that's because they have a lot of autonomy and the local people there are said to be better than the average Indonesian.

On what will happen to poorer provinces, I disagree. If what you say is true, then why do richer countries invest in poorer countries? Because labor will be cheaper. Thus, as some regions become richer, businesses will think of moving to the provinces to get cheaper labor. And since they don't have to deal with red tape from the national government, business is easier. What you say just doesn't make sense, the negatives you mention are already present in the current system. People in Cebu make a lot less money than people in Manila, hence we are poorer, so then why are Manila businessmen investing here? Surely you don't think it's because of our present system do you? This in my opinion has nothing at all to do with the topic whatsoever...

So in short it is mainly about two things: the first and most important being that of plain fairness, the second that of regional as opposed to capital city only development.

First where's your proof that decentralization will affect the economy, im basing mine from a study. if one province cant do much with 20% of tax how much can they compete with the other regions if we moved to federalism. people will keep on flocking the big cities cause they know there is opportunities there. Cebu made cause Cebuano made it happened with our current system.

Second, you completely missed out my point. federalism is expensive cause of government duplication that would lead to national inefficiency. how many times should i explained it that once we had federal democracy we would need to elect more government officials and hire more government workers. Plus we need build infrastructure to make the federal government running, for example we need to build State Capitol for every state this also goes for every branches of government (DILG, DENR, DoH, DeEd etc) each of those would need a HQ in every state. the cost of initiating federalism would cost us Trillions nationwide plus every state would had to pay the cost of maintaining and running it which is Billions for every state. Instead pooling in money to the central government to run a branch of government what we are doing now we make a central government for every state (duplication) its expensive and some state will not be able to cope up. of course raising taxation is a popular choice to keep the state running. stop comparing Philippines to Australia.. layo ra kaayo ta. ayaw ko ingna maka afford pud ta ug nationwide Health and Education plan. ang government mo pay sa atong medical bills and tuition lol. how i wish...

Corruption is at worst at lower levels, cause ang check and balance is at minimal. compare to the president na gi check ng senate and congress also goes to VP,senators, government official etc. and Indonesia is pareho lang sa ato, i think an archipelago country should always be centralized. Bali made it because they worked on it same reason like Cebu it just happened mas daghan ang population ng indonesia.

Poor province will remain poor, by the time maka abot sila ug 50 storey skyscraper naa na sa 100 storey ang sa cebu ug manila. it takes money to make money. cheap labor but no investment oppurtunities means nothing .

tell me ang manila lang ba nakinabang sa tax money? padung ra ba tanan sa manila ang pagmaintain palang sa central government kulang ang budget. and this central government works for the entire nation.

[Romeojin]

What? No direct positive relation between decentralization and economic growth? Sure ka, Basa oi, basa! Unsay gusto nimo kausaban o mao lang gihapon? Kung ang income sa Cebu og uban pa naa pa tanan sa probinsya mismo, mas daghan ug mahimo ang kana nga lugar.

Unsaon paglambo sa Mindanao nga 40% ra man sa income ang naa nila. Sige pa jud gubat didto.

you saying kung mag change atong systema mulambo atong ekonomiya automatically. unsaon man paglambo nidako man pud ang maintenance.

pila man pud gasto ng central government ang pagpadala ug military didto aber. basin kulang lang sa gihatag didto. mao pud nganong di kaau progressive didto kay tungod sa insurgencies. kung ma federal government na ta ang MILF.. federal army na ng ARMM .

[Romeojin]

Mao nay naka pabor sa agriculture regions ang ilahang product. asa man diay ta mangumpra diba sa ilaha, ug usa pasad dili naman siguro kinahanglan nga matukod pang mga building or and fodd chains anang mga lugara kay naanad naman na sila, ug lain sad limited funds, samot na siguro ka limit kung ang income ipadala pa sa national ug ang mabalik samot ka gamay.

sunod unsa man ibayad/suweldo sa state police, military, state official, juwes, etc .. unsa ? bayaran nila ug gulay tan-aw nimo naa pa kwara ang state kung ang maintenance palang nila is in the Billions lol. basin magtanum nalang ning mga agriculture state ng marijuana