The Universe - is it Created? or by Chance?

[josephdc]

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Which raises more questions that it answered?
Which doesn't add additional unknowns?

Yep. That was what I was saying. I had to spell it out for redhorse to understand it. He kept name dropping scientists who say the universe "began" 14 billion yrs ago. What he does not understand was, said scientists were referring to the expanded universe.

Oh, okay. But if the universe is in a state of expansion, doesn't that mean that it would have to have an absolute beginning?

[josephdc]

Universe is always there, nobody created it, no spirit created it. it is just there.

But bro, the Big Bang model does tell us that the universe had a beginning. It hasn't always existed.

[josephdc]

You right that the idea of an infinite past(regards to time) is impossible because time was created after the big bang. But wrong when you mean relate time with the existence of the universe itself. In layman's terms, time is "inside" the universe. Ergo, the universe itself is outside space and time, it contains them. I can settle with the universe always having existed. You are taking an additional unknown by bringing in god.

Bro I think it's really a mistake to say that the universe exists outside space and time. Space and time, matter and energy just are what makes up the universe. It wouldn't make sense to say that beyond space and time lies more space and time.

[schmuck]

Bro I think it's really a mistake to say that the universe exists outside space and time. Space and time, matter and energy just are what makes up the universe. It wouldn't make sense to say that beyond space and time lies more space and time.

Which is why I didn't say such a thing

[josephdc]

logic has its flaws. its too theoretical and conformist.

And yet you rely on logic to formulate that sentence.

[schmuck]

Oh, okay. But if the universe is in a state of expansion, doesn't that mean that it would have to have an absolute beginning?

YouTube - The Search For Hidden Dimensions - Brian Greene, RDF TV
skip to 5:07 if you are pressed for time.

[josephdc]

this argument is going nowhere....think of it this way, atheist are atheist...leave them alone with their own argument....they believe in empirical evidences....our beliefs are different from them....we just have to hold on to what we believe in and our own faith....

Bro you're assuming that Christians don't have a reasonable faith and simply rely on blind faith. That's a mistaken view that we should get rid of.

[orcgod]

wahaha, then you agree with me, "I see nothing", of course thats my point, its nothing, its pitch black, infinite universe, thats why theres no GOD, because nobody creates the universe. thats why it is by CHANCE that everything here under the PITCH BLACK INFINITE UNIVERSE existed. It existed from NOTHING, no GOD.

How could you claim that you are a science enthusiast when you don't even know what the universe means?
I'll give you a basic description what the Universe is: Universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Universe is commonly defined as the totality of everything that exists, including all physical matter and energy, the planets, stars, galaxies, and the contents of intergalactic space.

If there was NOTHING before the Universe, then there was NO universe.
It's not a PITCH BLACK INFINITE UNIVERSE, it was just simply VOID, NOTHING.

Now if you're expecting to see God on that PITCH BLACK NOTHINGNESS, then you must be dreaming.
In order for your eyes to see a thing, that object should be in a form of matter or energy in order to reflect
light. If it's in a form of matter and energy, then that object is already part of the space-time Universe, not beyond it.

Like what I've mention on my previous posts:
The beginning of the Universe from nothing points on a Creator that is beyond space and time.
It is beyond space and time not part of it.
Please try to lookup about the space-time Universe so you will understand.

It existed from NOTHING, no GOD.
How can NOTHING exist?
Ever watched Kung-Fu Panda? Ingon to iyang ama2x nga itik:
"The secret ingredient is: NOTHING!, There is no secret ingredient!"
If you really going to argue that "there is an existing secret ingredient, an it's NOTHING", mo-undang nalang ta ani.

Please try to look up what the word NOTHING is.
Nothing is a concept that describes the absence of anything at all.
Nothing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Universe is commonly defined as the totality of everything that exists, including all physical matter and energy, the planets, stars, galaxies, and the contents of intergalactic space.

there you go my most intelligent student. ni agree nasad ka nako, wahahahaha. ka kataw anan ba ani. Lets repeat...

The universe is compose of physical matter, energy, planets, stars, galaxies, and contents of intergalactic space, and GOD! wahahahahaha

aw sorry, walay diay GOD. wahahahaha. There you go. Thats my point, the components of the universe comes from nothing, it existed there by itself. its always been there. no Imaginary, Lunatic, Homophobic, Genocidal, Loving but Jealous, Patient but Impatient, Respectful but Disrespectful, Omnipresent but cannot be Seen GOD. wahahaha, mata sa dong, mata sa.

[orcgod]

Bro you're assuming that Christians don't have a reasonable faith and simply rely on blind faith. That's a mistaken view that we should get rid of.

Of course your relying on BLIND FAITH, what else can you describe about your Faith? NOT-BLIND FAITH? wahahaha.

You are believing in a GOD, that you NEVER SEE, and WILL NEVER SEE. Thats why you have a BLIND FAITH, because you believe in something you cannot SEE!

Thats why i urge you to leave FANTASY land of Angels with Wings and a Huge Kingdom in heaven sitting above the clouds. wahahahahahaha! mata na, mata na, ga damgo ra ka.

[bungot25]

YouTube - The Search For Hidden Dimensions - Brian Greene, RDF TV
skip to 5:07 if you are pressed for time.

many big bangs! haha another failed hypothesis! Greene's idea sucks!