The Bible and Evolution

[jamesmusslewhite]

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i can relate some higher power than us . other than god.

if uve seen alien versus predator . either one of them win , we lose.

i can say a higher probability tahn god are aliens.

its very posible taht we are under thwir influence , and laughing how we praise statues , kills each other bec. of believin on somethin that doesn exist. or not accurate choice of a god.

What if they are the same. Do you really think angelic beings fly everywhere on wings. The Hebrew text describes UFO's and other beings. Yes it is very easy to believe.

Example: the Watchers

Google, Yahoo, or Dogpile: The Dragon's Triangle. It is in the Philippine Sea off the coast of Japan, and is the Polar opposite to the Devils' Triangle. Many accounts of UFO's and USO's

[kebotDiNaMute]

if God has any regrets, then he is not God.

God has wrath. That tells us, his feelings. Thats why he is called a personal God. (my take)

[bluedes]

Not outer-space rather inner space; it must be an inner-dimensional event. String Theory is the first concept that could even begin to even try to explain the location of Heaven and Hell. We move through the same space shared by countless dimensions, each is beyond us in our present state of existence. Science is still just too young to grasp it at the present time.

too young? or your imaginations are too wild.. pick your choice..

If I walk by a heater and fell the heat on my leg, I do not need to try to find a device to detect the heat. My flesh did it already, and I know of the heats existence.
Once a a child I saw a diviner using a forked peach twig to find water on my father's farm. We found water where he said it was and within 1 meter of the depth he said it was. He let me hold the stick, but the stick would not move up and down for me. He touched me with one finger on my elbow, and the stick came alive twisting so hard I could barely hold it. His energy flowed through me. I could not see the energy, but a damn sure felt it's power. And learned a lesson, that there are true forces on this planet that do not need to be seen to be felt. Just because it can not be seen does not mean it does not exist, just not experienced yet.

that's because your skin has nerve centers that can detect heat, and your brain can extrapolate the source of heat based on the gradient of sensitivity covering the nerve centers on your skin. that's what you call an intelligent life form, which is you, a human. but you probably knew that already.. you just chose to interpret it as God within you instead..

Ask any man who walks with God and they will describe his warmth and the sensation of the power of his presence. You feel it in you heart, and it changes you. That transformation is the proof and truth and is all a follower needs to have and maintain his faith. I will never deny or turn my back on God again. I am lucky he allowed me to see again.

oh, so now God is felt thru the warmth and sensation within a person's presence? I thought God was somewhere out there with an IQ of 3000 and thinks that humans is a mistake of creation.. which is which really?

The truth is most Christians are false followers, they are slaves to a greedy building and false prideful dogma. They want you to be impressed with them by openly displaying how righteous they are, and act like fool in public. I pray in a closet of private place, and show my belief in the way I live my life. I am not a bible thumper, and have cursed priest, preachers, and whole congregations before.

True Christians will not want or cause harm to come upon their neighbors. They do not feel they have the right to hold judgments over other men. They try to follow the 10 Commandments and the 3 laws of Christ (feed, cloth, and love my people).

yeah.. so do you classify yourself as a true christian? and that's a mighty strong generalization against most Christians.. so what religion do you really belong to? a secret sect/cult of this supernatural alien-like god?

A Muslim knows of the Christ and chooses not to follow his teaching, rather they minimize him to a minor prophet. That they will have to answer for, but they have heard of him. I was warned to be aware of false Prophets and Teachings that would follow after Christ was ascended, and that is were I personnel relegate them. I follow the teachings of the Son of God not a mere man or an Arab war merchant. Some day Islam will try to conquer the world with their Satanist Convert of Die religion. All men will be forced to convert, me they can have my head. I will outlive my executioner.

you know, you're just contradicting your initial claim that the Muslims have the same God as the Christians.. so now, Muslims are agents of Satan? Allah is Satan then, huh? I'm getting confused here..

Yep, and he keeps a running score card. Why I do not know, his game and his rules. I am just a player like everyone else. I am struggling to get my "Get Out of Hell" card and trying to pass "Go" and collect my $200 like everyone else.
I told God you said hello, he said he has not heard from you in a while. He said for me to tell you to give him a visit sometime soon.

I don't know where this God you talk of is.. maybe he should give me a visit instead.. i'm sure it won't be much of a bother to him.. he can just teleport immediately to where i am now..

I believe all facts, sources and beliefs need to be put on the table for review. Our past is of a people with amnesia of our past. That the whole tapestry must be rewoven but the threads are found in the stories and beliefs of our past. It is hard to put together a complete picture, if you do not even allow possible pieces to be viewed. Math does more to explain the universe our world exist in then Biology does. Biology can not get the history of the world right yet, it is useless without support of the other sciences. The science of Biology did not get the men to the moon and back, it was math.

yeah, the power of numbers because of the reason of human mind..

To date there is no fossil that can truly show a missing link to a transition from one stage to another stage in the changing development of a species. Just existence and extinctions. It is the holy Grail for Biology, that one fossil that can substantiate the Darwinian theory. That is why when I hear the fossil records prove evolution, I know it is a false claim. They sure have tried to fake quite a few over the last 120 years.

i see.. i believe that will be a problem of history in the next couple of decades.. we've already begun to sequence the genomes of these fossils, and with a phylogenetic tree analysis, we can figure out that *missing* link sooner or later with the use of mathematics.

but i keep an open mind, so i'll look into that as well..

Survival of the fittest has never been proven to advance a species to the next transitional stage. I that were true than man would be a superman and only the healthiest, strongest, and most intelligent breed. Sorry but I have seen some real F--K Ups have kids. It does not allow for too many variables. Catastrophes, Plagues, mass diseases, and just plain luck.

that's why I asked you what your definition of fittest is.. we cannot define what fittest is by our own standards.. it is nature and the environment that defines the fittest. by idealistic sense, the closest i could get to define what the fittest is, is an life-form that is the most flexible, adaptable in any type of environment.. that would be with the use of intelligence, and cunning.

look up what Cladism means.. maybe ull get an idea of what an alternative definition of fittest is..

healthiest, strongest, and most intelligent breed. If you want to breed the perfect dog, chicken, horse, bird, human; do you not try to pick the best of the best? Anything less is not the fittest.

the word *perfect* is still vague.. how do you measure intelligence?

I believe most parts in the study of Biology, but I understand the failings too and choose not to hide or ignore them out of convenience.

if you understand the failings and choose not to ignore them, why don't u write a book about it, and really rigorously develop your ideas that should make up for the failings that you have noticed..

The Bible was written for people 2,000 years ago. Before the sciences that try to destroy a history book of the Jewish people. See the problem is the want to hold the Bible to a very stringent standard. They choose the flawed newer translations of the Hebrew text, and yet their science is still in transition and a state of flux. Science is not trying to test a prove the text, they are waging open warfare. The Atheistic attempt to dismantle the Bible, it is a crusade not scientific critical thinking, It is Cynical thinking which has no place in science. Still they have to hide, ignore, and fabricate evidence; often resorting to false claims and silly word play games.

you already postulate that the bible is written by a supernatural being.. that cannot be proven.. if the bible was written by such, why would he use such crude writings? and why give it to a bunch of people in ancient times? if god is so powerful, why not put this bible in some kind of material that cannot be broken, altered, or messed up with, and he could have at least written it in a number of languages so different nations could understand it.. that's a very unlikely postulate already for such a simple happenstance.. ever heard of Occam's Razor?

It is healthy for a child to question creationism and evolution. The way it is presented should be fare and balanced. But it is not example. If I made the following Statements:
a. I am a preacher of a church, but I am an Atheist.
b. I am an Evolutionary Biologist but I am a Christian.

Question: a. Would offend the offend Christians who would say I am unworthy to practice.
Question: b. It does offends the Atheist who say I am unworthy to practice.
And who are these flawless, supermen who think they have to right to judge? The fittest? Or just a bunch of stupid yahoos who are damn lucky they were even born. If man is the product of "Survival of the fittest" then 2 things must be believed.
1. The ancestors must have been a sorry lot for the sorry excuse the state of mankind is in.
2. Or all the fittest were killed defending the cowards and misfits, so that is all that were left to breed.
Yep, Survival of the Fittest really works as a Theory, and they say I am blinded by faith in false dogma.

you obviously have not made any connection of the characteristics of humans to the rest of the living kingdom.. our ancestors were not a sorry bunch.. they survived, and some of them evolved into us now.. anyway, you're too sold out on creationism already that your mind has closed to its own imaginings only, you have not really followed up on the current developments of evolution (which is not a theory anymore btw).

I will still stick to my text, I have yet seen any credible evidence to prove otherwise. Other may not understand that. Too bad.

how can you see any credible evidence when you've stuck you're nose too deep in all that religious hocus-pocus.. its sad to think that you just threw out all those 14 years of being an evolutionary biologist to become a dogmatic creationist.. i beg to question if you were really an evolutionary biologist, or just pretending to be one..

[bluedes]

God has wrath. That tells us, his feelings. Thats why he is called a personal God. (my take)

you're talking of a personal idol.. not God..

[chad_tukes]

You are a funny man, you really think God should do some magnificent thing so he can win your approval. Yes, God must dance for the monkeys. What have you ever said or done to think you are worthy of his time.

Man has sunk lower than dogs or pigs. Man is devolving not evolving.

All he owes us is death, and eternal torment. We owe him everything, heart, body, and soul; then pray we are worthy for salvation.

Man is devolving, not evolving? where'd you get that? lol... please present concrete sources to support your statement that humans are devolving. or better yet, you can check my other thread (which unfortunately got closed out because of OTs).

https://www.istorya.net/forums/scienc...-evolving.html

[chad_tukes]

If Evolutionist spent more time trying to prove and not disprove the Bible. If Creationist would research the root text and properly understand what was actually meant, and not base their dogma on poorly translated English translations. If the two side met in the middle, they could finally get at the truth. I am not far left of far right, rather I am a centralist. A Christian Scientist. You are still too far Left, your God is a flawed Darwin; and you will never truly understand until you too become a Centralist. Enlightenment is in the middle of the two sides my friend.

funny. calling yourself a centralist would be contradicting to your own behavior in the forums. your posts clearly shows you utterly reject the idea of Evolution, if not totally reject it, gearing towards creationism. you said it yourself, you studied 14 or so years of evolution and saw flaws in it. you even went as deep as telling us Evolution is a lie. and you call yourself a centralist. you are a Christian Scientist? that is only a title. it does not coincide with your beliefs whatsoever.

[chad_tukes]

You can not see Dark Matter or Dark Energy yet it makes up 96% of the universe around it, so you do not believe in them either?

failed logic. you are a scientist as you claim. you should not make statements that project a logic that is out of this world. you've been taught to think critically. yet you compare Dark Energy and God? come on James, you can do better than that. do not disappoint.

[chad_tukes]

It has to exist or the gravitational requirements which hold our universe together would not exist. God will have mass and an IQ of about 3,000. He is tired of man's foolishness. If you had a dog that bit you constantly, chewed all your belongings, and pisses on everything you have; would you keep him in your house? He put us in the yard, he still loves us, put he just does not want to play with us right now. We did it to ourselves, because he once had us in his house, and walked among us. When he thought we were still worthy.

Boy did we show him, when he made man we proved he could make mistakes.

lol... seems to me like you are now gearing towards Pantheism. so what are you?

[jamesmusslewhite]

too young? or your imaginations are too wild.. pick your choice..
True they are still young theories in Quantum Physics, String Theory, and Multi-Dimensional Reality. Sorry if I am not limited enough for you. You sound like someone cable of stepping out of the box.
I did not realize your limitations.

that's because your skin has nerve centers that can detect heat, and your brain can extrapolate the source of heat based on the gradient of sensitivity covering the nerve centers on your skin. that's what you call an intelligent life form, which is you, a human. but you probably knew that already.. you just chose to interpret it as God within you instead..
Too literal, the point was, if you feel it then you know. I have no need to prove to myself what I feel. I am not the one questioning the existence of God. I need not to try to prove something to someone who actually has no desire to listen.

oh, so now God is felt thru the warmth and sensation within a person's presence? I thought God was somewhere out there with an IQ of 3000 and thinks that humans is a mistake of creation.. which is which really?
You obviously have never actually read the Bible. You would have no problem with my statement. God is always with you and around you and you walk through him. Just as Heaven and Hell are always around you just out side your ream of reality and understanding. Yes I believe personally man is a total waste of time. Most men have the morals of dogs.
So you are offended if I say God created man and he loves you. You then are offended if I say man is not worth being created by a God. Maybe you are just offended? My point man is a waste of time.

yeah.. so do you classify yourself as a true christian? and that's a mighty strong generalization against most Christians.. so what religion do you really belong to? a secret sect/cult of this supernatural alien-like god?
I am a Born Again Christian. I follow the Law of God as they pertain to the Gentile and the teachings of the Christ. I am no member of a Man's church, rather I follow Christ's universal church. You will have to read and understand the Bible's New Testament to grasp the difference. See you distain reeks from the language of your comments. It is beyond your acceptance and I refuse to be limited. Classic Catch-22.

you know, you're just contradicting your initial claim that the Muslims have the same God as the Christians.. so now, Muslims are agents of Satan? Allah is Satan then, huh? I'm getting confused here..
Jews and Muslims each claim to follow the God of Abraham. Christians follow the Jewish God and the teachings of a Jewish Rabbi names Christ. No contradictions, just fact. Islam comprises aspects of the Hebrew and Christian Old Testament text, but also contain the writings of their Prophet Mohammad with his 164 War Verses. Yes and like most of man's religions it is twisted by the influence of Satan. Jehovah, Aravat, and Allah are the same God and not Satan. Satan is his own being and his only task is to confuse and twist man's will and turn him from God's path. If that confuses you then read the Bible, or stay confused. I can not take the walk for you and I can not think for you.

I don't know where this God you talk of is.. maybe he should give me a visit instead.. i'm sure it won't be much of a bother to him.. he can just teleport immediately to where i am now..
What makes you are worthy of a personal visit? Why should he care when you blaspheme and show him disrespect? Yes, God owes you Parlor tricks. Maybe if you stop the BS act and actually try to seek him out of respect, with regret in you heart for your foolish


yeah, the power of numbers because of the reason of human mind..



i see.. i believe that will be a problem of history in the next couple of decades.. we've already begun to sequence the genomes of these fossils, and with a phylogenetic tree analysis, we can figure out that *missing* link sooner or later with the use of mathematics.

but i keep an open mind, so i'll look into that as well..



that's why I asked you what your definition of fittest is.. we cannot define what fittest is by our own standards.. it is nature and the environment that defines the fittest. by idealistic sense, the closest i could get to define what the fittest is, is an life-form that is the most flexible, adaptable in any type of environment.. that would be with the use of intelligence, and cunning.

look up what Cladism means.. maybe ull get an idea of what an alternative definition of fittest is..



the word *perfect* is still vague.. how do you measure intelligence?



if you understand the failings and choose not to ignore them, why don't u write a book about it, and really rigorously develop your ideas that should make up for the failings that you have noticed..



you already postulate that the bible is written by a supernatural being.. that cannot be proven.. if the bible was written by such, why would he use such crude writings? and why give it to a bunch of people in ancient times? if god is so powerful, why not put this bible in some kind of material that cannot be broken, altered, or messed up with, and he could have at least written it in a number of languages so different nations could understand it.. that's a very unlikely postulate already for such a simple happenstance.. ever heard of Occam's Razor?



you obviously have not made any connection of the characteristics of humans to the rest of the living kingdom.. our ancestors were not a sorry bunch.. they survived, and some of them evolved into us now.. anyway, you're too sold out on creationism already that your mind has closed to its own imaginings only, you have not really followed up on the current developments of evolution (which is not a theory anymore btw).



how can you see any credible evidence when you've stuck you're nose too deep in all that religious hocus-pocus.. its sad to think that you just threw out all those 14 years of being an evolutionary biologist to become a dogmatic creationist.. i beg to question if you were really an evolutionary biologist, or just pretending to be one..

You act as if only atheist can be scientist. You actually think that a man can both a scientist and believe in a God? I am not dogmatic

[bluedes]

True they are still young theories in Quantum Physics, String Theory, and Multi-Dimensional Reality. Sorry if I am not limited enough for you. You sound like someone cable of stepping out of the box.

thanks.. but i step out of the box cautiously.. not jump out wildly and begin uttering such wild claims without any valid proof whatsoever.. that's viewed as crazy and lunacy by some people already.. for example, to believe that i could fly, i would jump off the building and test that i could fly? i certainly hope not..

Too literal, the point was, if you feel it then you know. I have no need to prove to myself what I feel. I am not the one questioning the existence of God. I need not to try to prove something to someone who actually has no desire to listen.

oh, but you do.. u see, ur the one claiming that God exists, why do you claim this? just because you feel it? if every other schmuck begins claiming that, imagine how many crazed followers we'd have now..

You obviously have never actually read the Bible. You would have no problem with my statement. God is always with you and around you and you walk through him. Just as Heaven and Hell are always around you just out side your ream of reality and understanding. Yes I believe personally man is a total waste of time. Most men have the morals of dogs.
So you are offended if I say God created man and he loves you. You then are offended if I say man is not worth being created by a God. Maybe you are just offended? My point man is a waste of time.

dang.. so now I have not actually read the Bible already.. FYI, I grew up with christian catechism, and unlike most children, i had the curiosity to read the Bible from cover to cover for the fun and joy of reading it.. i don't claim to have an understanding of any grand purpose of the Bible, but from what i've read before, it sure did contain a lot of funny and interesting stories.. if you read it like a child, its very entertaining indeed.. but if you begin to scrutinize it like an adult, ud be surprised to find a lot of idiosyncracies..

and to imagine that a lot of people follow it like a zombified human.. well, that was just way too much for my head.. as a child, why should i do that.. even less as an adult.. however, i don't despise the bible because our religious education teacher focused more on the virtues and moral lessons of its stories than the technicalities and crazy logic of the bible..

I am a Born Again Christian. I follow the Law of God as they pertain to the Gentile and the teachings of the Christ. I am no member of a Man's church, rather I follow Christ's universal church. You will have to read and understandthe Bible 's New Testament to grasp the difference. See you distain reeks from the language of your comments. It is beyond your acceptance and I refuse to be limited. Classic Catch-22.

who created Christ's universal church? don't tell me it just came out of nowhere.. *poof*

Jews and Muslims each claim to follow the God of Abraham. Christians follow the Jewish God and the teachings of a Jewish Rabbi names Christ. No contradictions, just fact. Islam comprises aspects of the Hebrew and Christian Old Testament text, but also contain the writings of their Prophet Mohammad with his 164 War Verses. Yes and like most of man's religions it is twisted by the influence of Satan. Jehovah, Aravat, and Allah are the same God and not Satan. Satan is his own being and his only task is to confuse and twist man's will and turn him from God's path. If that confuses you then readthe Bible, or stay confused. I can not take the walk for you and I can not think for you.

ahh, so every other religion/church is twisted by Satan, while yours is the one that's pure and true?
okay.. whatever makes you happy.. (Note to self: make a reference to fuc*ed up followers of anthropomorphic god in previous post.) sorry, just having some fun and laughs here..

What makes you are worthy of a personal visit? Why should he care when you blaspheme and show him disrespect? Yes, God owes you Parlor tricks. Maybe if you stop the BS act and actually try to seek him out of respect, with regret in you heart for your foolish

aww.. too bad.. i wasn't thinking of worthiness or all that hoopla at all.. i guess ur god ain't the friendly type.. he's all too high and mighty huh.. bruce almighty..

You act as if only atheist can be scientist. You actually think that a man can both a scientist and believe in a God? I am not dogmatic

oh well, i guess u didn't respond to the rest of my post anymore..

actually, a true scientist has to let go of a premise of a supernatural.. because that will be a block or contradiction to his method of inquiry (which is the scientific method btw).. so in a sense, a scientist can only be an atheist with respect to that which is supernatural.. but it doesn't say anything about being atheistic to a phenomenon.. i hope you can distinguish between the two..

and calling yourself a Christian Scientist is a joke right? the only way you can call yourself a christian scientist is when you're a christian, but not making the mistake of mixing your so-called wild fatnastic beliefs with science. but you ceased to become a scientist already the moment you left the field 14 years ago and began mixing the two.. i'd sure like to see how you can survive in a lab now having to set aside your dogmas, if u can do that, then you're a *christian* scientist.. a christian at home, a scientist in the lab.. much like dr. jekyl and hide..