The Bible and Evolution

[kebotDiNaMute]

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maypa mo lingaw na au mo , hahaahhaa. .. kapoy man gud istorya bot gud . hahaha
its called insanity -

Thats the whole point cro... i want you to get tired of talking about it... talk something that you are comfortable with... it seems a morning dose helps... I never insist coz i don't want to talk about it... I dont want you to insist.. if you want i can chase you! ill be glad to do it.

[jamesmusslewhite]

so mura diay kag si budha Mr. creation scientist. but im not trying to convince u ha. jus wna hear from ur POV ,.

how do u think would heaven and hell exist infact , i dun hav any idea about it scientifically.

do u think it exist in a parallel universe . or in the inner core/...

I am an evolutionary Biologist/ Botanist. The science of Biology and Botany can not really be used to explain Heaven of Hell, due to the are earth bound sciences. Man is to limited intellectually to devise a science credible enough to deal with supernatural and unexplained phenomena. If we can not see it it does not exist, even when 96% of the known universe's mass (Dark Energy, and Dark Matter) can not be seen but we know it has to be there to account for the gravity with hold our universe together. So the concept of God and the Holy Spirit are not beyond my belief. I have spent my whole life thinking outside the box of man's limitations.
I personally believe in the concept of Heaven and Hell. If they do exist where and how do we transport there upon our deaths? That is what our souls do according to so many religions. So lets first try to grasp an understanding of the basic mechanics of the soul.

I will try to explain the concept of soul and flesh in basic scientific terms as to try to keep my religious bias out of the equation? Please understand that I am trying to explain a concept that baffles modern science in the most basic of explanation.

Subject Flesh, What is Our Body? We are a large carbon based organic being consisting of 60% water and a massive nerve system connect to a brain. We are in essence a Carbon battery with complex conductive wiring.

Purpose for the wiring: If pricked unknowingly with a pin on the heal your brain receives a signal from pain receptors, processes information from these receptors in the CPU we call a brain. Then the evaluated information is sent to various muscles telling you to jump, rub the pained area, and yell in pain. All in a split second, How? Electric Energy which is stored and contained in this carbon based battery casing we call a human body. Our body is far more complex carbon based unit, than a carbon block with copper strips and 2 post. And the elctrical energy is far more complex than the stored charge in the car battery.
We can run 120 years without a recharge and require no external alternator or generator to maintain the discharge requirements of every day usage. You can steal the total charge of a car batter and replace it at a latter date. We can not do that to a human body we would call that process reanimation. Our Electrical energy is contained within this earth bound body, then released upon our death. Our body host and contains an electrical energy that has mass, weight , and can not be destroyed. In a way we are a very complex walking battery with eyes, independent thought, and the most complex chemical processor on earth.


When you die everyone loses, even if sealed in a big zip-lock baggie, several grams of unexplained weight loss. Electric Energy has mass, mass has weight. What happens to the Electric energy upon death: It appears to exist no longer in the host body. Does it die? No
One of the basic laws of physics is the Law of Conservation of Energy, which states that energy can not be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another. It is more profound than my understanding, yet it can be the only thing that can accounts for the unexplained weight loss of a human body upon death. we can no weigh the soul or thought essence of a human being. The consciousness leaves the body and it must have mass and weight or that Law of Physics is wrong and not a viable and reliable law. Consciousness must be present for reincarnation, past life experience, transcendental travel that have been reported and recorded through out the existence of man.

Many Theologies believe our consciousness, soul, life essence, and other terms move on to the next plane of existence. That that step of journey can only be achieved by our release from this earthly plane. Amputees often have the sensations of their severed limbs, can that be a reflex memory or chemical reaction; science is not sure yet it has been reported. One twin feeling pains of the other twin even if miles apart. Their is so much about or bodies, brains, and consciousness we do not understand. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam believe you take what is uniqetly your into the after life.

Hindu believe in reincarnation and memories of past lives, even after leaving and returning to this physical plane. The Dali Lama, was able to pass a strict test to prove he had memories of himself during his last life as the preceding Dali Lama. When he dies his followers will seek him out again so he will be able to take his place as Dali Lama again for his next life time, then again, and again.

In the Biblical text of Christianity it states we will all receive a resurrected body, even if dead 1,000's of years? As a Christan I believe our soul is much more than just electrical energy. Science does not presently have the ability to begin to understand, measure, or weigh the soul. I know some members say if they can not see it then it does not exist. If their statement is true then they have no souls, so they need not worry about Heaven or Hell. Yet all men have souls.

If Heaven or Hell Exist, Then Where?
With the advent of String Theory we can now conceive of infinite dimensions or realities sharing the same space. It would help explain what happens to our Electric Energy upon our death. The energy does not die yet the lose of the weight, of it's removal of mass, dictates that it does exit the body.

The term to cross over would be correct if the Electric Energy which is our essence, slips into a different dimension or reality, which is layered over our own reality. Heaven and hell just beyond our reach. Which reality could be based on negative or positive polarity. Christianity shows it as a possible 4 step process. Upon death you are in a sustained state. We then go before God for Judgments. Some go to Heaven. Some go to Hell. Four basic realities, each which our souls can travel? Or 1 reality with at least four levels? Enoch described Heaven having 10 distinct levels. As per Abhidhamma (3rd Pitaka of Dhamma), there are 8 main hells. There are 16 'mini' Hells surrounding each of these 8 main hells. There is a darkness Hell, a river like hell and a tree like Hell. So, (8x16)+3= 131 levels of hell. Each could be a different dimension or reality.

Could the Soul Have Polarity?
We do have Electrical Energy and an EMF field and discharge static electricity. There for we must have to have polarity.
POLARITY OF THE HUMAN BODY — Ch. J. Quetil, F.T.S.
What is Polarity Therapy? | What is Holistic Arts Healing?
Polarity Therapy: "Going Wireless"
ACS :: Polarity Therapy

Hope that helps with your questions.

[jamesmusslewhite]

of course nag struggle pa ang darwins law kay bag-o paman na cya. and its all fact.

about the hebrew text, sauna rman na disprove.

about dark matter , its still a theory . but from the fact that its has weight , it shows some solid evidence..
maybe if god shows - something that occupies space and has mass. maybe ma ka accept sad ta ug the god theory.

It has to exist or the gravitational requirements which hold our universe together would not exist. God will have mass and an IQ of about 3,000. He is tired of man's foolishness. If you had a dog that bit you constantly, chewed all your belongings, and pisses on everything you have; would you keep him in your house? He put us in the yard, he still loves us, put he just does not want to play with us right now. We did it to ourselves, because he once had us in his house, and walked among us. When he thought we were still worthy.

Boy did we show him, when he made man we proved he could make mistakes.

[bluedes]

It has to exist or the gravitational requirements which hold our universe together would not exist. God will have mass and an IQ of about 3,000. He is tired of man's foolishness. If you had a dog that bit you constantly, chewed all your belongings, and pisses on everything you have; would you keep him in your house? He put us in the yard, he still loves us, put he just does not want to play with us right now. We did it to ourselves, because he once had us in his house, and walked among us. When he thought we were still worthy.

Boy did we show him, when he made man we proved he could make mistakes.

i thought god was perfect, infinite, omnipotent, omniscient, etc, etc... it seems he makes mistakes..

[cromagnon]

@james

i agree on the first half of ur pose , if u differentiate a piece of ash and a corpse - there the same on composition ,. mostly carbon .

im not sure about the unexplained loss of weight cus i haven heard of it . but i do agree that , humans have energy inside . as wat it said it cant be created nor destroyd.
when a man dies the energy goes away from the body. or so called electrons body battery watever.

- probably this is where they took , the idea of reincarnation .
so as the carbon in the body in the cemetery goes on the grass above it.

so this energy from the body m from ur theory may be consider as the soul, from the latest discovery on string . this electron energy may go on diferent dimentions in the parallel universe. and might end up on a hell/ heaven. judgement thing and purgatory.

in the world of multiverse , anything is possible. which includes different life forms from other galaxy./ universe. which thus very interesting thought.

but from theologians/pagans point of view , purgatory stuff are man made concept, there is very little probabilities on this. but of course just like god we cant disprove it.

but like , im open to countless posibilities on our universe. but from what this religious claim .
it very much , far out. in its conce[t like judgement from what we did for the last 80yrs of our life etch.

prety much fantastic . but thnx anyway by sharng u pov. i dun contes....

[cromagnon]

It has to exist or the gravitational requirements which hold our universe together would not exist. God will have mass and an IQ of about 3,000. He is tired of man's foolishness. If you had a dog that bit you constantly, chewed all your belongings, and pisses on everything you have; would you keep him in your house? He put us in the yard, he still loves us, put he just does not want to play with us right now. We did it to ourselves, because he once had us in his house, and walked among us. When he thought we were still worthy.

Boy did we show him, when he made man we proved he could make mistakes.

i can relate some higher power than us . other than god.

if uve seen alien versus predator . either one of them win , we lose.

i can say a higher probability tahn god are aliens.

its very posible taht we are under thwir influence , and laughing how we praise statues , kills each other bec. of believin on somethin that doesn exist. or not accurate choice of a god.

[jamesmusslewhite]

yeah, i agree with you on these.. i never said that science is everything.. but it sure does explain a lot of things so far.. as much as science has it flaws, because its not perfect, otherwise it wouldn't keep on changing itself, the bible too has its flaws because its not perfect either..
but between science and the bible, i'd rely more on the science for definite facts in nature than some 2000 old book written by who knows.. the bible has its purpose, but definitely not explaining the material universe in such accuracy and detail..

i prefer to put my faith in the present and the future, than in the past..
because science has shown that *some* beliefs and *God* in the bible simply does not exist. where is this *heaven* that God is supposed to reside in? its not up in the skies, and its not beyond in outerspace.. i'm pretty sure its not in some distant galaxy.. and talk of another *place* where we are supposed to go when we die is just based on pure speculation and wild imagination..
Not outer-space rather inner space; it must be an inner-dimensional event. String Theory is the first concept that could even begin to even try to explain the location of Heaven and Hell. We move through the same space shared by countless dimensions, each is beyond us in our present state of existence. Science is still just too young to grasp it at the present time.

you do not need to prove God and that he dwells in the hearts of men.. yeah, that's your claim, but then again, you cannot prove it.. and when you use that claim to begin saying that those men who have no (alleged) God in their hearts will go to *hell*, well, now.. who's pushing who's beliefs down one's throats.. i'm just not talking of you in particular, its pretty much all the other so-called believers out there too..
If I walk by a heater and fell the heat on my leg, I do not need to try to find a device to detect the heat. My flesh did it already, and I know of the heats existence.
Once a a child I saw a diviner using a forked peach twig to find water on my father's farm. We found water where he said it was and within 1 meter of the depth he said it was. He let me hold the stick, but the stick would not move up and down for me. He touched me with one finger on my elbow, and the stick came alive twisting so hard I could barely hold it. His energy flowed through me. I could not see the energy, but a damn sure felt it's power. And learned a lesson, that there are true forces on this planet that do not need to be seen to be felt. Just because it can not be seen does not mean it does not exist, just not experienced yet.

Ask any man who walks with God and they will describe his warmth and the sensation of the power of his presence. You feel it in you heart, and it changes you. That transformation is the proof and truth and is all a follower needs to have and maintain his faith. I will never deny or turn my back on God again. I am lucky he allowed me to see again.

true christian, i also believe will never cause suffering on others, but try telling that to the false christians, not to the ones who openly claim they don't believe in an anthropomorphic god..
The truth is most Christians are false followers, they are slaves to a greedy building and false prideful dogma. They want you to be impressed with them by openly displaying how righteous they are, and act like fool in public. I pray in a closet of private place, and show my belief in the way I live my life. I am not a bible thumper, and have cursed priest, preachers, and whole congregations before.

True Christians will not want or cause harm to come upon their neighbors. They do not feel they have the right to hold judgments over other men. They try to follow the 10 Commandments and the 3 laws of Christ (feed, cloth, and love my people).


you're just proving your own point.. when a follower begins to condemn others who do not share their beliefs, wouldn't you call them fuc*ed up followers? when a muslim begins to condemn you because you don't believe in Allah, wouldn't you call that muslim a bit looney?
A Muslim knows of the Christ and chooses not to follow his teaching, rather they minimize him to a minor prophet. That they will have to answer for, but they have heard of him. I was warned to be aware of false Prophets and Teachings that would follow after Christ was ascended, and that is were I personnel relegate them. I follow the teachings of the Son of God not a mere man or an Arab war merchant. Some day Islam will try to conquer the world with their Satanist Convert of Die religion. All men will be forced to convert, me they can have my head. I will outlive my executioner.
get angry and resort to insults? i beg to disagree.. that's the problem there.. does your God even exist to begin with for him to be insulted? oh well.. tell your *God* I said hi.. let me know what his response is, okay..
Yep, and he keeps a running score card. Why I do not know, his game and his rules. I am just a player like everyone else. I am struggling to get my "Get Out of Hell" card and trying to pass "Go" and collect my $200 like everyone else.
I told God you said hello, he said he has not heard from you in a while. He said for me to tell you to give him a visit sometime soon.


yeah right.. tell that to the majority of muslims.. see if they believe that Christ is the son of god.. whoever that god of the muslims are, Allah, he sure didn't have any son at all..
Jews and Muslim each claim to follow the God of Abraham, and Christians follow the Hebrew text and the writings of the Apostles of Christ. At least the ones the Church wants us to read. There are many other books that were excluded.

This is a good site to find these other text
The Lost Books of the Bible - The Hidden Truths

which is why it explains a lot of things.. its like a universal truth.. it makes sense by all accounts.. the mere discovery of such an idea, the pain-staking development to arrive at a tautology is solid foundation/cornerstone of a branch of knowledge. much like karma.. karma is a tautology too..

now, ud probably beg to disagree that tautologies have no place in science.. but on the contrary, it has every right to be in science. the reason why science stands so well is because it is backed up by rock-solid mathematical foundations (which are tautologies as well).. a triangle will always have three sides that equal 180 angles.. 1 + 1 = 2 in base 10, 1 + 1 = 10 in base 2.. those are in themselves tautologies.. you can't refute that in whatever dimension you put yourself into..
I believe all facts, sources and beliefs need to be put on the table for review. Our past is of a people with amnesia of our past. That the whole tapestry must be rewoven but the threads are found in the stories and beliefs of our past. It is hard to put together a complete picture, if you do not even allow possible pieces to be viewed. Math does more to explain the universe our world exist in then Biology does. Biology can not get the history of the world right yet, it is useless without support of the other sciences. The science of Biology did not get the men to the moon and back, it was math.


i see where you're getting at.. it would be contrary to laws of probability for a random event to have a definite evolutionary pattern.. if you are only considering the random events themselves, the specific random event that caused the change at one time-frame has a limiting factor on what random event can happen in the next time-frame. but there are still other factors to consider, and that is the environment. the random event in one time-frame could have a totally different environment than the next time-frame, and it would be difficult to show that the cause of variation in a species directs the next change in the time line. all we can do is just trace the time line and infer what changes have occurred.

so how do you explain fossils in a *creationist* type of origin?

the way i've understood natural selection, there is no intelligent design out there that has directed the course of change in species.. this *intelligence* is inherent in the species and it has directed its course of evolution.. if it wasn't intelligent, it would not survive the current environment unless it adapted to it and thus sparked a step of change in evolution..
To date there is no fossil that can truly show a missing link to a transition from one stage to another stage in the changing development of a species. Just existence and extinctions. It is the holy Grail for Biology, that one fossil that can substantiate the Darwinian theory. That is why when I hear the fossil records prove evolution, I know it is a false claim. They sure have tried to fake quite a few over the last 120 years.

honestly, i'm confused what your understanding of that phrase is..
Survival of the fittest has never been proven to advance a species to the next transitional stage. I that were true than man would be a superman and only the healthiest, strongest, and most intelligent breed. Sorry but I have seen some real F--K Ups have kids. It does not allow for too many variables. Catastrophes, Plagues, mass diseases, and just plain luck.

but in any case, the survival of the fittest stands true today as the first time it was coined. you probably have just an emotional misunderstanding of it.. what is your definition of the "fittest"?
healthiest, strongest, and most intelligent breed. If you want to breed the perfect dog, chicken, horse, bird, human; do you not try to pick the best of the best? Anything less is not the fittest.

and how would you know what the species pure pattern is? evolution does not claim such, but the Bible seems to.. and that's a mighty claim without any proof whatsoever either.





i'm sorry, but i don't belong in that category you have just stated.. i don't believe in evolution.. and i don't have any dogma in evolution whatsoever. i accept evolution as a fact, not as a belief.. that's because i have studied it considerably, on the grounds of science and not on some religious dogmatic affinity. probably you have aligned yourself as an atheist before and *clinged* to evolution which more likely explains your dogmatic stand against it now..
I believe most parts in the study of Biology, but I understand the failings too and choose not to hide or ignore them out of convenience.

creation story is just that.. a story.. a fable.. it may attempt to explain the origin of living things, but its quite crude.. its best suited for children who have not developed their thinking capabilities well enough yet..
The Bible was written for people 2,000 years ago. Before the sciences that try to destroy a history book of the Jewish people. See the problem is the want to hold the Bible to a very stringent standard. They choose the flawed newer translations of the Hebrew text, and yet their science is still in transition and a state of flux. Science is not trying to test a prove the text, they are waging open warfare. The Atheistic attempt to dismantle the Bible, it is a crusade not scientific critical thinking, It is Cynical thinking which has no place in science. Still they have to hide, ignore, and fabricate evidence; often resorting to false claims and silly word play games.

for a child to question the creation story, i'm sure he would ask further questions, and this is a sign of growth of thinking capabilities on the child's part.. but how would you go about answering his questions? you just tell him to shut up and just believe? i certainly hope not.. that's why there is science..
It is healthy for a child to question creationism and evolution. The way it is presented should be fare and balanced. But it is not example. If I made the following Statements:
a. I am a preacher of a church, but I am an Atheist.
b. I am an Evolutionary Biologist but I am a Christian.

Question: a. Would offend the offend Christians who would say I am unworthy to practice.
Question: b. It does offends the Atheist who say I am unworthy to practice.
And who are these flawless, supermen who think they have to right to judge? The fittest? Or just a bunch of stupid yahoos who are damn lucky they were even born. If man is the product of "Survival of the fittest" then 2 things must be believed.
1. The ancestors must have been a sorry lot for the sorry excuse the state of mankind is in.
2. Or all the fittest were killed defending the cowards and misfits, so that is all that were left to breed.
Yep, Survival of the Fittest really works as a Theory, and they say I am blinded by faith in false dogma.

I will still stick to my text, I have yet seen any credible evidence to prove otherwise. Other may not understand that. Too bad.

[jamesmusslewhite]

i thought god was perfect, infinite, omnipotent, omniscient, etc, etc... it seems he makes mistakes..

Yes I think he regrets making man, he almost wiped us all out of existence before, and have no doubt we have done no better this time around.

[Hellblazer 2.1]

if God has any regrets, then he is not God.

[hizuka007]

tama jud..