Freethinkers And Skeptics

[chad_tukes]

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pinogos kai pagkabata nimo gibunyagan naka wala nalang gani pangutan-a ang bata if ganahan ba siya ma christian. 8-|

we have the same exact concerns when it comes to child baptism (posted it on the other thread "Why Humans Believe in GOD). it's good to know someone's on the same boat as me.

[chad_tukes]

now on to the topic... let's talk about being skeptical. anybody who thinks supernatural phenomena (ghosts, etc.), psychic abilities, mind control, predictions, communicating with the dead (seance), and anything paranormal are all bullsh!t---will you please raise your hand?

[Alel]

now on to the topic... let's talk about being skeptical. anybody who thinks supernatural phenomena (ghosts, etc.), psychic abilities, mind control, predictions, communicating with the dead (seance), and anything paranormal are all bullsh!t---will you please raise your hand?

Personal view: I just think that such things are not really what they seem to be. I don't think these things demonstrate anything beyond the natural - other than demonstrating how our mind likes to take easier shortcuts.

But I won't say that the 'phenomena' themselves are 'bullsh*t': the people that willfully reproduces such phenomena for fraudulent intent are.

I know people - from other parts of the globe - that uses their 'psychic' skills in helpful ways (transformation for the better, to boost self-esteem, psychological healing, etc.)...They openly admit within certain circles that they are no more human than anyone else, and they use the public's percieved image of them (that they are 'supernatural') for the better and not for worse.

Google Alejandro Jordorowosky...Here is a Wiki article - specifically read the 'Psychomagic' section: Alejandro Jodorowsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[chad_tukes]

Personal view: I just think that such things are not really what they seem to be. I don't think these things demonstrate anything beyond the natural - other than demonstrating how our mind likes to take easier shortcuts.

But I won't say that the 'phenomena' themselves are 'bullsh*t': the people that willfully reproduces such phenomena for fraudulent intent are.

I know people - from other parts of the globe - that uses their 'psychic' skills in helpful ways (transformation for the better, to boost self-esteem, psychological healing, etc.)...They openly admit within certain circles that they are no more human than anyone else, and they use the public's percieved image of them (that they are 'supernatural') for the better and not for worse.

Google Alejandro Jordorowosky...Here is a Wiki article - specifically read the 'Psychomagic' section: Alejandro Jodorowsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

psychotherapy borders more on the "psychological" aspect of things rather than on the psychic side of it---so nothing beyond the natural at all. when we talk "psychic", it entails having the ability to use extra-sensory perception. Psychomagic is interesting, but it in itself is not testable by means of scientific method, though on the other hand, our minds have the power to heal the body through numerous techniques (i.e. meditation). that is a biological fact, not some sort of a weird "phenomena" that happens. like faith healing---i think faith healing is BS. GOD heals your cancer in Jesus' name? Amen? COME ON. God talking divine through your pastor and stuff. faith healing has a psychological impact on people much like PLACEBO pills.

[Alel]

psychotherapy borders more on the "psychological" aspect of things rather than on the psychic side of it---so nothing beyond the natural at all. when we talk "psychic", it entails having the ability to use extra-sensory perception. Psychomagic is interesting, but it in itself is not testable by means of scientific method, though on the other hand, our minds have the power to heal the body through numerous techniques (i.e. meditation). that is a biological fact, not some sort of a weird "phenomena" that happens. like faith healing---i think faith healing is BS. GOD heals your cancer in Jesus' name? Amen? COME ON. God talking divine through your pastor and stuff. faith healing has a psychological impact on people much like PLACEBO pills.

I generally agree...

A 'white-hat' psychic would not overestimate and hype-up his 'power' (for lack of a better term) over his client. Here is an example: sangomahealer.com <- Check the disclaimer at the bottom of the page. This guy does not heal cancer, nor does he claim to. I respect him because of that.

(People often skip the fine prints nowadays, especially when it stands between them and what they want to achieve or happen. 'No Approved Therapeutic Claims' on herbal capsules, anyone?)

For the record: I totally believe that the scientific approach IS the way to go. Better and safer. I just dont think that everything that can be related to psychic phenomena is 'bullsh*t'. There is a lighter side in such things, afterall. (Not that I encourage it over scientific approaches.)

About Alejandro's 'Psychomagic': I may be wrong, but I think it is Alejandro Jodorowski who travelled to the uncivilized corners of the world to research the psychotherapeutic nature of non-scientific healing. Im longing to read his book to read more about his findings.

[Alel]

To add:

Question: If a person's psychological health needs help, and the person believes in the 'psychic world' more than he believes in science, do you think a psychiatrist is the person that could help him?

People with such a belief system is not rare you know...

I think the authoritarian approach in psychiatry is being abandoned and a more utilitarian and cooperative approach is now adopted. Rather than forcing it to someone, its easier and its generally more effective to use what is already there.

I see the 'white-hat' psychics as 'undercover Ericksonians'. (Milton H. Erickson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <- read 'Resistance' section. Google for more credible sources. )

[chad_tukes]

I generally agree...

A 'white-hat' psychic would not overestimate and hype-up his 'power' (for lack of a better term) over his client. Here is an example: sangomahealer.com <- Check the disclaimer at the bottom of the page. This guy does not heal cancer, nor does he claim to. I respect him because of that.

(People often skip the fine prints nowadays, especially when it stands between them and what they want to achieve or happen. 'No Approved Therapeutic Claims' on herbal capsules, anyone?)

For the record: I totally believe that the scientific approach IS the way to go. Better and safer. I just dont think that everything that can be related to psychic phenomena is 'bullsh*t'. There is a lighter side in such things, afterall. (Not that I encourage it over scientific approaches.)

About Alejandro's 'Psychomagic': I may be wrong, but I think it is Alejandro Jodorowski who travelled to the uncivilized corners of the world to research the psychotherapeutic nature of non-scientific healing. Im longing to read his book to read more about his findings.

i guess the question here is: do "white-hat" psychics have unique abilities for which they claim to possess? are psychics real or do they possess a "gift" to heal? or is it simply a genuis ploy mixed with linguistic techniques to convince the client that they are real? you don't have to answer these questions bro---but definitely questions for the believer to ponder on.

[chad_tukes]

To add:

Question: If a person's psychological health needs help, and the person believes in the 'psychic world' more than he believes in science, do you think a psychiatrist is the person that could help him?

I think the authoritarian approach in psychiatry is being abandoned and a more utilitarian and cooperative approach is now adopted.

(People with such a belief system is not rare you know...)

the probability of that person seeking a psychic than a psychiatrist is high enough that my answer would be NO. i know a lot of relatives who are like this: dili na lang mu adto ug DOCTOR kay adto ra sila sa "mananambal". hehehe...

[jamesmusslewhite]

free in a box? i don't exactly understand what you mean. the "free" i'm thinking is emancipation from the bounds of religious authority. things beyond man's understanding? like what, spiritual life? there is actually no proof of this. if we take that same logic then i'd choose to worship the Sun---at least i know the Sun exist.
You think religion is an enslaving force, but religion is freedom from the enslavement of sin. You may persist that there is no such thing as sin or Satan, but it does not change the fact they still exist. Sin and the evil acts of men is what enslaves us. You think you are free because you denounce religion and the concepts of God, Christ, and Satan; but is you disbelief that actually enslaves you, as with those fools in the churches that you despise so much. They are actually disbelievers and are twisted by the same weaknesses that plague all men.

You blame religion and God for the acts of arrogant ignorant evil men. You turn your back on what will save you because you can not distinguish between dogma and the dogs that attend churches. They are lazy and do not read, and they have false pride and will not understand. They are just as lost as you, and many if not most are slated for the pit.

You call your disbelief enlightenment but actually it is blindness and false pride. Yes worship the sun, worship the words of another blinded prideful atheist writer of vial lies, and scoff at the writings that can save you deluded soul. You are not enlightened, you are hollow and you will remain hollow until you fill that hole with God. You do hate, and it come out in many of your comments and remarks about religion, God, Jesus, Bible, and Christians. We do not hate or despise you, hell I like you, but we understand something you can not grasp yet, faith.


it's a business of SAVING LIVES? like, how exactly? can a life be saved when you go to Church every Sunday to compare clothes with the guy next to you? or perhaps, chick sight-seeing? maybe you can get drug addicts off the streets. but how does religion directly saves lives? let's get real---religion is business like any other business in the world. only difference is it's TAX FREE---and your GOD seems to need a little more money everytime. lol
Church does save lives, but more important they save souls. I have heard many testimonies of those on destructive paths who lives were saved. How many churches sent funds and supplies to the Philippines? How may church groups send doctors, surgeons, and dentist to do free medical procedures in the Philippine poor. Real Christians and churches do. Of course it is obvious that the church you attended was a hollow building full of dogs. I know I was turned of to religion because of this. I have first hand experience myself of a Godless church that served as a den for dogs. It was just a business and not a house of God, there is a big difference. The sins of man reeked from it's halls and Satan's presence permeated from the parishioners as vile lies and greed came from the podium .

Money, money, money, Satan needs your money, Satan will kick you in the ass and call it God's work, and lazy gullible prideful fools will not know the difference. His hands are in all churches, religions, and denominations. there are hundreds of demons for every man, woman, and child on this earth. A 36,000 year battle field engaged in a war raging from the beginning of the First creation. When Satan lost his bid for power and fell with 1/3 third of all the angles to the earth. He fell with a force numbering over a trillion. They have 36,000 years to prefect their craft, and their sole purpose is to destroy our bond with our creator and deceive mankind.

Jesus never asked for money, do you know why? He was not a Levite, only Levites received tithes to maintain the Temple. If Christ took monies it was a sin. Is there a temple? No, so there are no tithes to be given. Churches are guilty of blasphemy when they demand your tithes, and they do not distribute the tithes as God commanded the Levites to distribute it, which is a sin. To give tithes to a church is a sin. People are too stupid and lazy to read the text for themselves. You just turn off, hate, and act prideful, I did for 20 years. But you really are just refusing to read the text to learn for yourself. Do not be too clever to learn the old knowledge because it takes lots of research, work and commitment. It is easier to skip all that and just insult those that do. Been there and done that myself. It enslaves you and does not fill that void until you do. The message is what is important, not the messenger.

A true Christian's Faith are not threatened by your disbelief, and can live beside you and be a good neighbor. Oh he will talk you ear off and bore you with bits of scripture, but you will live in peace in mutual coexistence. To an Atheist there are bigger dangers. In the Philippines Christianity pushed the Moros out of most of the lands of the Philippines. Christianity also pushed the Muslims out of France, Spain, and a large portion of central Europe. They still think of these lands as their territories and will not be satisfied until they are reclaimed. This has been too well documented to be just disregarded.

You want to hear something that should scare the hell out of you watch this.
YouTube - RICHARD DAWKINS REASONS WITH A MUSLIM

[Alel]

the probability of that person seeking a psychic than a psychiatrist is high enough that my answer would be NO. i know a lot of relatives who are like this: dili na lang mu adto ug DOCTOR kay adto ra sila sa "mananambal". hehehe...

Hehehe!

If the problem is psychological of some sort, then the "mananambal" could probably provide help. But if its physical, they stand no chance. Hehehehe

Seriously, if these "mananambals" really care for the welfare of their sitters or clients and not just the money they earn, then they should recommend the client to see doctor, psychologist, lawyer, or any professional for real help in their troubles.

The problem is that, some psychics are what are called 'shut-eye' psychics - that they truly believe that they have real gifts, and that they can provide help to any problems, psychological; or physical (which isn't scientifically true)