NOAH's FLOOD A MYTH?

[jamesmusslewhite]

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if religion dies... whose going to teach atheist morality and order? we'll be back to where we were before -- uncivilized people.

come to think about it... if nobody taught us goodness in the first place, wed still be in chaos.

Stalin was an Atheist leader, closed all churches, then killed 60 Million Russian citizens. Very Moral
Mao was an Atheist leader, closed all churches, then killed 70 Million Chinese. Very Moral

[Hackerz]

to.o nalang gud mo sa bible..

para walay gubot.. awa.. daghan na kaayo og answers.. you dont even know where to believe.. kung religious man gani ka.. why not stick to your belief.. no doubts..

[chad_tukes]

Stalin was an Atheist, closed all churches, then killed 60 Million Russian citizens.
Mao was an Atheist, closed all churches, then killed 70 Million Chinese.

...and Hitler was a Christian. oh wait, Hitler only killed 17 million people. not a whole lot.

Hitler never formally renounced Catholicism. though a lot of Christians today are fond of making "Hitler is an Atheist" an example---and we burst their bubble by saying, "no he's not!"

how ridiculous and bias is that James. yes, Stalin and Mao were atheists---but they didn't kill millions of people because they were atheists. as to whether atheism systemically influences people to do bad things, there is not a slight evidence for it.

[AmorsoloX]

Stalin was an Atheist leader, closed all churches, then killed 60 Million Russian citizens. Very Moral
Mao was an Atheist leader, closed all churches, then killed 70 Million Chinese. Very Moral

hmm.. i see no problem with that.. there are time when you really need to kill potential trouble makers.. didnt the inquisition did the same? killing those who defied the church?.. genocide is only a political tool used for political purposes.. religion is also a political organism, its not limited to the catholic church, even the muslims are using islam for their claim in mindanao, religion is the prostitute of politics.... morality is subjective.. what is moral to you may not be to another...

[Ger]

hmm.. i see no problem with that.. there are time when you really need to kill potential trouble makers.. didnt the inquisition did the same? killing those who defied the church?.. genocide is only a political tool used for political purposes.. religion is also a political organism, its not limited to the catholic church, even the muslims are using islam for their claim in mindanao, religion is the prostitute of politics.... morality is subjective.. what is moral to you may not be to another...

true, but without someone to identify right from wrong, we wont be condemning them otherwise...

[jamesmusslewhite]

ok then, so i'll take it as your OPINION, no better than everyone else's opinion. you can't present hard facts, so why should i take your comments upfront? present me hard facts that America is better off with a religion, and that America is what it is now because of RELIGION.

it's obvious now that you can't.
No one could it is a stupid trick question that can not possibly be answered. No more than you could prove the US would be better off as Atheist. There is no working example of an Atheist Godless America, in which to compare. It is like saying "Prove God" but if you do not, can not, or will not accept the answers, than it is just a futile exercise. There is just too much you do not know and too much you are willing not to accept to ever accept the explanations of anyone.

Just like you can not say the US would be better off without religion. The fact is none o the Godless societies even compare to the United States. There is no prof of one that stands taller or better without religion, while providing what the US provides to a population of 300 million or more citizens. I say it is because no Godless country has the blessings of God, therefor they do not have the blessing that bless the US. Could you prove me wrong. Of course not, that is why I would not ask you that type of question, because it can not possible be answered. Stupid trick questions resolve and accomplish nothing.

If you remove religion from the US then it would not be the US that we know. Even if you took God out of the US, that society would have still been built on it's original religious beginnings. You can change the wordings in all the documents but it still be a carbon copy but the judiciary will have to change. It is based that when a defendant, witness, or victim places their hand on the Bible that their fear of God will keep them from committing purgery or bearing false witness.

The United States Declaration of Independence
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."

i love how you try to sway the topic away by posting things like NEW WORLD ORDER, SATAN, etc... we were talking about RELIGION and ECONOMY. it's a big JOKE in itself to say that religion and economy go together. this is not college James---you can't go tell me to go google your argument because you're unable to. i asked you to present FACTS then you pass it on to me instead. this is not a dinner table. or maybe it's just an excuse. it's okay. i don't have the luxury of time either. if you were my college professor then i'd probably do it so you can give me an A.
A religious country should have solid Morality Code that the people follow. If it is a religion that has a written Morality Code for the believers to know to follow. A Morality Code religion means the possibility for honest business and trade practices, fair and open markets, and excellent business/ client relations. To say that they are not related is equally a Joke. Lets take a Christian (predominantly non-Catholic), Christian (predominately Catholic, Buddhist, Hindu, and two predominant Atheist countries for examples. If you were going to invest your money in a business where would prefer to invest China, India, Russia, Philippines,Taiwan, United States. which of those country would you prefer to buy a big ticket item over the internet? Each country is in the top 1/4 list of best world economies.

PS... i seldom use Google when i post. i find it pathetic to see some members posting here like a walking encyclopedia with Google placed so conveniently on the other window.
I told you to look up these topics so you can see through the Vail and the puppeteers who are pulling our strings, We think we are free and they think we are their personal property, there are different forms of slavery.
I agree Cut and Paste is used to much on the forums, I try to use it as little as possible. Only if I am using it for verifiable facts and accuracy of numbers, and then I list the URL that I got it from, we should not plagiarize other's work and try to pass it as our own. But we both have excellent writing skills and control of the English language, so I see why other members use it so much.
I personally primarily use Dogpile Web Search it is a mega-search engine for looking up research, it rarely ever fails finding the hard topics.

Do not look up the information for an A, just look at the subjects to see what is being done around you, who is doing it, and why it is being done.

[jamesmusslewhite]

hmm.. i see no problem with that.. there are time when you really need to kill potential trouble makers.. didnt the inquisition did the same? killing those who defied the church?.. genocide is only a political tool used for political purposes.. religion is also a political organism, its not limited to the catholic church, even the muslims are using islam for their claim in mindanao, religion is the prostitute of politics.... morality is subjective.. what is moral to you may not be to another...

This is true that Morality is controlled by those in absolute power, but sometimes masses are killed just out of convenience, like too many mouths to feed, racial cleaning, or population control. Those figures do not even reflect yearly abortion numbers, 13 million in China, 6-7 million in Russia, and 1.2 Million in the US. Who many great mind that could help guide us in the future were never even given a chance to live?

[skoilhp]

the purpose of myth is to hide the real message/story with an entertaining unreal story... just like the parable of Jesus

[chad_tukes]

I keep telling you have not hurt my feeling. I am not Filipino you do not have to worry about hurting my feelings. I was a Marine Sergeant and I am a big boy. I am just gruff and stern, you have been dealing with a Texan, not a Filipino. I like the exchange, and I am the one always worried about hurting feeling on the Forum. I am the one member you can say go F**K themselves it is this worry of hurt feelings that cause a unnecessary barrier for free exchange. I can disagree with out having my feeling being hurt, you should know that being American. Americans can argue till red in the face and then sit down a drink beer together as friends. Get off this hurt feelings kick, you do not matter enough to me, that anything you say will hurt my feelings, piss me off maybe but hurt my feelings.
There are parts Darwin can be correct on, but there are parts he was wrong about. There are parts of the Evolution theory that are correct and parts that are fairy tales with no actual facts backed by real evidence. I only accept that which has prof, and being a Christian I accept the text of the Bible. I can sort through the haze and see they are both trying to tell the same story. You accept everything about Darwinian and Evolutionary theory as hard facts, and that is an over assumption. You refuse the Biblical text, therefor do not research the text in depth, and you ignore anything that may challenge you precious Darwin. I choose rather to research the Bible and test it with the facts that science has varified. I am not bound by Atheistic agenda and look at science for varification, where you try to look at science to disprove the Bible and God. I am an enlightened Christian, where you can only be a bias minded Atheist trying to find enlightenment. That is the difference between us, is how we look at the known evidence

this is where we greatly differ. i perceive the real world as a world backed up by evidence; a world which is observable and tested by science; not a world built upon conclusive statements written on an ancient scripture made thousands of years ago by people who didn't know much about the world around them. even though science tries hard to prove its authenticity, on the other hand it manages to disprove some of its contents. like Adam and Eve... like the origin of the universe... i could go on. it is hard to convince someone whose brain is hard-wired to believe in the scriptures and a "supernatural being".

Well if Russia, China, and Cambodia are to be examples then you have to ignore their governments killing 90+ million of their own citizens. Yep, real Utopian. So how many million will be killed in the US and the Philippines? 2,4.10,20 Million, more? Know your World History.

oh, i already know my World History. no need to dig my personal library for me to know that Russia, China, and Cambodia are countries with a religion. so it's kinda far-fetched to say imagine if they're Utopian. well heck, if they're Utopian then it would be better!

The United States was founded on religious principles, by members who were religious men. That is the History and is just the facts. Yes, it is a Blessed country that has evil forces trying to destroy it. Sorry you can not see it, but that is your problem not mine.

oh, i don't have to start from scratch. i devoted a whole year in college studying World History. you keep telling me to know my World History as if you know so much about it. many of America's founding fathers were no doubt religious, but it can be argued that some of the greatest were atheists. their writing about religion during their time can leave no doubt that some of them were atheist. but whatever their inclination to beliefs were, they collectively can be labeled as secularist. and oh, i'll give you a little bit of USA history. contrary to what you said, the United States is NOT founded as a Christian nation. want proof? read about the treaty of Tripoli.

[jamesmusslewhite]

this is where we greatly differ. i perceive the real world as a world backed up by evidence; a world which is observable and tested by science; not a world built upon conclusive statements written on an ancient scripture made thousands of years ago by people who didn't know much about the world around them. even though science tries hard to prove its authenticity, on the other hand it manages to disprove some of its contents. like Adam and Eve... like the origin of the universe... i could go on. it is hard to convince someone whose brain is hard-wired to believe in the scriptures and a "supernatural being".
No where we differ, is every day I try to fit the pieces of the bigger puzzle together, but I use all the pieces of religion and science to find the larger picture. You try to make the pieces you choose to fit into your own concept of what the puzzle should be.


oh, i already know my World History. no need to dig my personal library for me to know that Russia, China, and Cambodia are countries with a religion. so it's kinda far-fetched to say imagine if they're Utopian. well heck, if they're Utopian then it would be better!
I see Stalin and Mao were religious and not Atheist, and they did not close all churches so they could establish Atheist Utopian societies as written by daddy Marx and Lenin


oh, i don't have to start from scratch. i devoted a whole year in college studying World History. you keep telling me to know my World History as if you know so much about it.
Yes I am sure your year of History taught you so much and then you make statements that show you actually know very little. I have studied history longer than you have been alive, and I still do not have a total grasp. You could devote a year to study just one decade in history and not know everything that occurred in that decade. The Revolutionary war, Civil war, WW1, the Great Depression, WW2, Cold war, Vietnam each of these events changed and influenced America as we now know it. You don't know squat yet.

many of America's founding fathers were no doubt religious, but it can be argued that some of the greatest were atheists. their writing about religion during their time can leave no doubt that some of them were atheist. but whatever their inclination to beliefs were, they collectively can be labeled as secularist. and oh, i'll give you a little bit of USA history. contrary to what you said, the United States is NOT founded as a Christian nation. want proof? read about the treaty of Tripoli.
You ignore too much, and transfix on too small of a point. What does and Agreement with Barbary Pirates written 20 years after the country was founded, have to do with the Founding Father and their core beliefs when establishing the foundations of the United States, or America being founded on Christian values?
204 unique individuals in this group of "Founding Fathers." These are the people who did one or more of the following:

- signed the Declaration of Independence
- signed the Articles of Confederation
- attended the Constitutional Convention of 1787
- signed the Constitution of the United States of America
- served as Senators in the First Federal Congress (1789-1791)
- served as U.S. Representatives in the First Federal Congress

Hate to bust you little lie bubble you choose to exist in, but they were all church goers and considered themselves Religious.

Religion of the Founding Fathers of America
http://earlyamericanhistory.net/founding_fathers.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundin..._United_States

"It can be argued that some of the greatest were atheists. their writing about religion during their time can leave no doubt that some of them were atheist."
Show me your proof to this fabrication of facts. because the real history shows just the opposite.
This post unfortunately exposed your failings and basic understandings of both World and American History. You actually are not bright and clever, rather you are quite average. Prove me wrong.

You always demand proof and facts, yet never actually provide any real evidence yourself. That is not a good trait.

Show your proof:
Leninist and Stalinist Russia were religious and not Atheist states
Mao's China was religious and not Atheist "Read the Dali Lama's accounts of his meeting with Mao"
Some of the Greatest Founding Fathers were in fact Atheist, and just "How Many" is some out of the 204.