You can be a moral person without God...

[grovestreet]

---

Our religious indoctrination (REed classes hehehe) keeps telling us that we're born with sin (aka original sin).

why?

so people will show up at churches that's why. Go figure.

[AmorsoloX]

so people will show up at churches that's why. Go figure.

so people will show up at church with their love offering.. tsk tsk tsk

[miyay]

Instinct of a man,.he doesnt need God when he feel everything is alrayt,.he needs God when there's no way out but to cry help from Him,..

true, especially kung moreview og motake og board exams

[kebotDiNaMute]

never liked organizations (except work, ofcourse) which impose "requirements". IMO, it's better to get out of that "crap".

OT

We share the same sympathy sis... but remember this... we are subject to physical laws and requirements.

What you are thinking if we can eliminate those odds then we can be better...

Yes of course we can... How about we are not subject to gravity... Clark Kent? Wow I want that too... hehehe


Point is requirements are there to accomplish something.

[kebotDiNaMute]

Instinct of a man,.he doesnt need God when he feel everything is alrayt,.he needs God when there's no way out but to cry help from Him,..

Well you can start from there... Not everytime is alright... right? so why take him away to people who needs it? Does that feel right? hmmmm. Alright then kebot follow through!

[kebotDiNaMute]

it's better to do good because you know it is good. you don't do good because there's some kind of heavenly eyes watching over you. so what if there wasn't? does that mean it's okay to do bad?

ok lets talk about bad things... we have no problem with good things..

if you do bad things who will tell you its bad?

if we do bad things He will tell us its bad.

Question:

What is the benefit there is or there is nothing watching over us?

My answer is CONVICTION.

does that mean it's okay to do bad?
--- well if it works then good for you, if it doesnt then you are toast dba?
--- well even if it works for us, we still do not want to do it... as much far as we are concerned.
--- if tax evasion works for you i bet you will keep doing it. What if everyone will do the sameway like this... think again...

[NapoleonBlownapart]

Then why need a god? Why go to church? Why pray?

because people are not justified before God by how "moral" they are..

All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

[munzter666]

In my case, I would not try...hell, what's the worth in being moral without God, I could not have any conscience...it's the same feeling when I play terminator and sprays two cannisters of insecticide under the kitchen sink and kills perhaps a hundred or so worthless cockroaches...in reality perhaps it could be my office manager or my annoying neighbors.

that's weird. if you take away a man's religion and god belief(setting on DEFAULT) doesnt necessarily make one a SERIAL KILLER of some sort.

[kebotDiNaMute]

that's weird. if you take away a man's religion and god belief(setting on DEFAULT) doesnt necessarily make one a SERIAL KILLER of some sort.

yea, serial killer is a gift not for everyone... hehehe! but you can always be a born liar. what du think?

[jamesmusslewhite]

because people are not justified before God by how "moral" they are..

All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Enoch, Job, Abraham, and Jesus were moral men of righteousness. So that is like 4 out of a possible 10 Billion that have been born. Yes there can be truly righteous people of moral standing but they still have original sin.

I know that I am not one and I can safe to say, that the odds are none of the other members on this forum can claim to be truly moral righteous people. Without you being either delusional, foolish, are a liar. That was why Jesus had to have his blood shed at the Hill of Skulls the place of his crusifiction. God being a perfect being can not look at us without seeing the filth of our sins. We have to be bathed in the blood of his beloved son so he can even look at us. Then when he looks at us he does not see the filth of sin, rather he sees the purity of the blood of his perfect son which he loves.

Those that were born before Christ or have never heard of Christ will be judged different than those that have heard of the Christ. Those that have heard his name and reject Christ will be judged hardest of all. It is a sliding scale, fair, just, and final. Not my rules, because I will be judged same as everyone else. I have a lot to be judged for, and probably Hell bound if not Graced by Christ and his Father. Faith is salvation, but salvation is hard to earn and easy to loose. I fall short of God's Grace every day and have to struggle constantly with this world to keep my faith. It is not enough to only say it, you have to live it, and that is the great internal struggle. That is the curse of Free Will.