is sayin this right?

[jamesmusslewhite]

---

oopss... looks like i've hit a nerve again.

Yes, but I forgive you for it, and I know that I sometimes come on too strong. That is the Texan and Marine in me, we fight for our beliefs and are raised on a strict honor code.

I have made the Dead Man's Prayer, as I know every soldier in the Philippines who puts their lives in harms way for you country are doing or have done. Every Filipino veteran on this forum would be insulted, just the same as me. Men of Honor who have seen friends and good men killed on the field of battle. There are no Atheist in fox-holes. When bullets and mortars are passing you head and shaking the ground under your feet, trust me you will be praying harder than the Pope.

You would have to be in that situation to understand this I guess. When you are doing a Dead Man's Prayer it is not because of being unintelligent or trying to make God responsible for your actions. You are praying hoping God will let you live, that you will be allowed to see your family and friends again; and if not, then you will be forgiven for the deeds you must perform and not have to take those sins with you to your grave. You first have to be put in the situation were you know you will kill another man, or be killed trying.

Do not let your hatred for God and religion cause you to be too cynical, to the point that you have to disrespect everything pertaining to the subject. You can lose your honor that way, and HONOR is all you have to be measured as a righteous man.

[bluedes]

ahmm.. theres always the "ubusan ng lahi" option hehehe.. but im not the genocidal freak unless i really really need to, i dont go for unnecessary actions... always save resources for battles that are yet to come

hehe.. i understand what you mean.. its a tribal characteristic.. kung sa locals pa, isug ug dugo.. kung pwede pa, astang kaliwat i-apil sa gubat..

although murphy's law applies, "anything that has possibity of happening, will happen", i dont consider it karma.. better play it safe by taking out other's capability first to inflict evil on me..when people throw you stones, shoot them.. dont give them the chance of acquiring guns..

its far better to die fighting that to rot in a deathbed..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

that's contrary to what jesus would say..

but anyway, why rush to battle when u can avoid one.. u can always run and hide.. i'm not saying u be a coward, but sometimes, to hide and duck is a wise thing to do..

also, to a certain extreme, this logic will be contradictory to this world.. i sort of buy into it because i'm not so attached to this physical form anymore..

dont talk poetry to he who is not a poet, when meeting a samurai, draw your katana. - from the book of five rings - miyamoto mushashi

hahaha..

and again, those who live by the sword, die by the sword..
nice that u've read go rin no sho.. hehe

[chad_tukes]

Yes, but I forgive you for it, and I know that I sometimes come on too strong. That is the Texan and Marine in me, we fight for our beliefs and are raised on a strict honor code.

I have made the Dead Man's Prayer, as I know every soldier in the Philippines who puts their lives in harms way for you country are doing or have done. Every Filipino veteran on this forum would be insulted, just the same as me. Men of Honor who have seen friends and good men killed on the field of battle. There are no Atheist in fox-holes. When bullets and mortars are passing you head and shaking the ground under your feet, trust me you will be praying harder than the Pope.

You would have to be in that situation to understand this I guess. When you are doing a Dead Man's Prayer it is not because of being unintelligent or trying to make God responsible for your actions. You are praying hoping God will let you live, that you will be allowed to see your family and friends again; and if not, then you will be forgiven for the deeds you must perform and not have to take those sins with you to your grave. You first have to be put in the situation were you know you will kill another man, or be killed trying.

Do not let your hatred for God and religion cause you to be too cynical, to the point that you have to disrespect everything pertaining to the subject. You can lose your honor that way, and HONOR is all you have to be measured as a righteous man.

so you're saying that as an atheist, i would have to be sent to battle to be able to comprehend the presence of God? sorry, i wouldn't even dare make myself to do that. it's not because of cowardice (as what you suggest), but because killing people is not right even though you kill for freedom; it's still killing, and i don't need a GOD to forgive me for my actions because i killed someone. i wouldn't even kill in the first place.

[chad_tukes]

Do not let your hatred for God and religion cause you to be too cynical, to the point that you have to disrespect everything pertaining to the subject. You can lose your honor that way, and HONOR is all you have to be measured as a righteous man.

oh trust me James... i do not hate GOD. how would i hate "GOD" if i don't believe he exist? we're just talking GOD, that's all it is. and don't say that i can lose my HONOR by doing that, because honor is not just having to believe in an imaginary entity. honor can be served in numerous ways.

[bluedes]

So every soldier that prayed "Dead Man's Prayer" before a battle or prayed before he took vengeance on an evil, showed that he is unintelligent? That inaction is intelligence?

war was never a smart thing to do..

That is a statement of a fool who have never been at the edge of his own oblivion, or facing his own own possible self sacrifice. That he has to contemplate what he might be forced to do in battle, and the realization that his death may come before he can have time to pray after the battle. Cowards can never understand a dead man's prayer, because he will always leave that sacrifice to others who are more man than him. Their is no atheist in fox-holes. Any boy who was man enough to become a soldier can understand, but cowards have no concept of such things, for you would have to have been man enough to have been a soldier first. Some time little punk boys need to keep their ignorance and bias bigotries to themselves.

Why is it that it is the same few sad members that have to make such negative and pathetic comments on every topic pertaining to religion. Being a Atheist does not make you cool, rather it make you at biggest of fools, damn you are a pathetic bunch of cowards. You hate God, we get it, but do not act as if you deserves any respect for you defiant blasphemes.

Atheist should not discuss topics of religion and faith, because you have none, and have no true understanding on the subjects. All you posses is just blind hatred derived from an empty existence, which you must direct at those that posses what eludes you. A christian will never listen to your ignorance, because we have found faith, and we know we do not want to be you. A man who does not walk with God is a waist of good air.

ooohh.. really struck a nerve there..

so sorry about that..

but seriously, all this fighting is foolishness.. and that's why i dont buy into any form of war.. why go into one in the first place?

if it is one's time to perish, then he/she shall perish..

i would not struggle against my destiny.. of course, i will exhaust whatever i have in my power to try to change that (but NEVER USING VIOLENCE as a form of power), but in the end, if it has already been written, then why fight against my own fate.. i would rather die in peace (and pieces if necessary or surrender) than die with such feelings of anger and vengeance in me.. and that means to not fight at all. there is a reason why we become slaves to another in this physical universe.. there is a time for everything..

contrary to what you have posted, some people here have gone thru battles like you have and maybe worse, and see that all that fighting is really stupid..

i also do not believe in the saying that "to preserve peace, one must be ready to go to war.." that is an arrogant excuse of generals who lack infantry for their armed forces..

that dead man's prayer, i'm afraid, is just another tool of religion for an excuse to be violent against another..

tell me, what do you do when u win the war?

[chad_tukes]

^^a ridiculous tale of brainwash? hehehe.

[bluedes]

^^a ridiculous tale of brainwash? hehehe.

yeah.. brainwashed by a trigger happy general bent on going to war..

[jamesmusslewhite]

that piece of prayer seems to warrant religious people to do evil things.. it made me remember a quote

"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion" Steven Weinberg

religion is a tool that people use to give reason to the evil deeds that they are going to do.. it somehow clears their consience from responsibility.. which is really wrong.. just plain wrong

Yes I am sure that ever soldier who has gone into battle, feels that prayer is their reason to kill. That prayer will allow them kill another man without conscience. And that praying to God before a battle is just really wrong and plain wrong. Here is where you are wrong. I prayed that prayer before battle, and after 24 years nightmares of the faces I killed still haunt my sleep and burdens my soul. I still pray to this day that I will be forgiven for those deaths.

Here is where you are correct. A person that think a simple prayer takes that away is a dumb-ass fool. There are times when it is an honorable prayer. But it does not release you conscience or soul of the burdens of your actions. Only an evil man who has no understanding of biblical text could believe that it would. Many can claim to be religious but you have of live by the laws to be religious. An evil act is still an evil act and can not be forgiven with a hollow prayer. You can not use the prayer to be forgiven cheating on a spouse, cheating your neighbor, stealing, murder, getting drunk, taking drugs, are the thousands of other uses that a shallow person could try this type of prayer for. Then even trying such a prayer is an evil act.

[chad_tukes]

Yes I am sure that ever soldier who has gone into battle, feels that prayer is their reason to kill.

hehehe... no wonder why our world is so messed up.

[bluedes]

Yes I am sure that ever soldier who has gone into battle, feels that prayer is their reason to kill. That prayer will allow them kill another man without conscience. And that praying to God before a battle is just really wrong and plain wrong. Here is where you are wrong. I prayed that prayer before battle, and after 24 years nightmares of the faces I killed still haunt my sleep and burdens my soul. I still pray to this day that I will be forgiven for those deaths.

Here is where you are correct. A person that think a simple prayer takes that away is a dumb-ass fool. There are times when it is an honorable prayer. But it does not release you conscience or soul of the burdens of your actions. Only an evil man who has no understanding of biblical text could believe that it would. Many can claim to be religious but you have of live by the laws to be religious. An evil act is still an evil act and can not be forgiven with a hollow prayer. You can not use the prayer to be forgiven cheating on a spouse, cheating your neighbor, stealing, murder, getting drunk, taking drugs, are the thousands of other uses that a shallow person could try this type of prayer for. Then even trying such a prayer is an evil act.

not intending to add further hurt to injury.. but why did u have to kill in the first place?
if you had not killed or went to war, u would not have to use that "prayer", and needn't have to go thru all 24 years nightmare..

its a simple thing to see.. yet a lot of people miss it..

if you already feel a hesitation about war, and you're about to start the war (funny!), then of course, that prayer will become a coward's prayer because he is just trying to pass on to God the responsibility of killing another.. but if you were smart enough not to lead yourself into war, you wouldn't have to go thru that prayer at all.. (but i do symphatize with your dillemma, and i hope u find a way to get rid of those nightmares..)

this is all idealistic.. and we're not perfect, we err and make mistakes in our lives.. but i've learned good enough to see a war coming if i would make this step way ahead.. wars are not caused by major offenses.. wars are caused by simple mistakes way back in the past out of subtle pride and arrogance..