Legalize Abortion?

[AmorsoloX]

Actions and beliefs can be objectively right or wrong. We must use our judgement and evaluate actions and beliefs or else we will be totally unable to live moral lives at all.

on whose standards? sa church? yeah right...

morality is subjective..

if an action will benefit the many.. sacrifices of a few is acceptable... FOR THE GREATER GOOD! even if such action is seen as dirty to church standards..

you cant expect to win a war without losing a few soldiers dba?.. but while doing it, just make sure you keep your costs at a minimum..

[mannyamador]

morality is subjective..
if an action will benefit the many.. sacrifices of a few is acceptable

Using your own logic, benefit is also subjective. So you have no standards whatsoever to judge whether anything is beneficial.

You have just contradicted yourself again.




PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS AND THOSE OF THE UNBORN.
REJECT THE COERCIVE RH/ABORTION BILL (HB 5043)
Please sign the online petition AGAINST the RH/Abortion Bill (HB5043)
http://www.petitiononline.com/xxhb5043/

[AmorsoloX]

Using your own logic, benefit is also subjective. So you have no standards whatsoever to judge whether anything is beneficial.

agree.. benefit is subjective.... if it would improve the the circumstance of others then it is a benefit..
a benefit to someone might be a loss to another.. as long as there are more people enjoying the results of an action than suffering caused. its acceptable..

for me, i use something quantifiable as a measure.. like money.. thats why i consider monetary costs of actions, income made and savings generated by individuals. anything that can be expressed in numbers..

[moving]

Unborn children ARE existing human beings. Did you just relegate an entire class of people to non-human status? Just like Hitler did?

Wrong. Unborn fetuses are not existing human beings. Fetuses do not have existing rights.

Fetuses do not qualify as an entire class of people as they are not existing human beings. Hitler relegated existing human beings, just like you are relegating women -- existing human beings for the sake of fetuses.

No comparison was made between a building and a woman's body.. I made an analogy of the LOGIC involved. You should be able to tell the difference.

by making an analogy you are in fact admitting that you see women similar to that of buildings. there is nothing similar between a building and a woman. newsflash: in case you're still living in the "the world is flat" era, women are existing human beings, women have rights.

women's bodies, women's rights. its nobody else's business.

[mannyamador]

Wrong. Unborn fetuses are not existing human beings. Fetuses do not have existing rights.

Kindly read the Philippine Constitution, Section II, Article 12. They DO have existing rights that are protected under our Constitution. Do your homework.

by making an analogy you are in fact admitting that you see women similar to that of buildings.

I suggest you go back to your lessons in logic. An analogy is NOT the same as a similarity.

An analogy is done to show that the LOGIC is the same. The subjects, however are different.

A similarity -- in the sense that you are using it here -- is when the subjects are the same in some way.

Like I said: do your homework.

agree.. benefit is subjective.... if it would improve the the circumstance of others then it is a benefit..

Like I said, there's no way to determine "improvement" if it is subjective.

as long as there are more people enjoying the results of an action than suffering caused. its acceptable

That is unworkable and extremely dangerous. Despots throughout history have claimed such to justify their mad schemes. Look at Hitler. By his measure, 30 million Germans were to benefit from the murder of six million Jews. Such determinations are also subject to irrational whims and quickly-changing public opinion. That is hardly an intelligent way to do things. Why do you think democracies are designed to cushion the effect of rash changes in public opinion?



PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS AND THOSE OF THE UNBORN.
REJECT THE COERCIVE RH/ABORTION BILL (HB 5043)
Please sign the online petition AGAINST the RH/Abortion Bill (HB5043)
http://www.petitiononline.com/xxhb5043/

[AmorsoloX]

That is unworkable and extremely dangerous. Despots throughout history have claimed such to justify their mad schemes. Look at Hitler. By his measure, 30 million Germans were to benefit from the murder of six million Jews. Such determinations are also subject to irrational whims and quickly-changing public opinion. That is hardly an intelligent way to do things. Why do you think democracies are designed to cushion the effect of rash changes in public opinion?

Hitler once said this qoute - "if i win the war, i will be called the greatest genius, if i lose, i will be the most hated man"



im not anti semite or something ha.. but the allies fought world war 2 not for the jews but for europe.. again, they have their own political agenda.. its an added bonus they found hitler killing many jews, to put a "sense of morality" to their actions of occupying and dividing germany.. we can say, it backfired into hitler.. if hitler won, he would have been regarded a hero.. if i were him, should have just made them slaves or taxed them heavily.. that would make better economic sense... hitler was some bastard who believed that his side was the right side.. just like somebody insisting that his beliefs are the only correct ones.. if you impose your beliefs on others, your just like hitler.. (bdw, the church is sometimes acting like hitler, on being a bully at political matters like this RH-bill, different goals, similar method)

i prefer to gauge something on how much it costs and how much it will benifit me.. im not being greedy.. im just being practical.. my bible is sun-tzu's art of war.. it guides my decision making.

again. i just want to say that i always look at the economic sense of these things.. i prefer numbers over words.. for numbers are impartial to neither side...

[mannyamador]

now, who says we cant enjoy S*X without creating a baby.

If you prevent the natural design and consequences of a good act, you are perverting it. Doing so has grave and dangerous practical consequences.

Studies have shown, for example, that artificial and abortifacient contraceptives lead to MORE unplanned pregnancies and MORE demand for abortion. That is the consequence of the perversion of the beautiful and sacred s3x act that God created.

So it's not just that some killjoy people teach contraception to be evil. Contraception IS evil and has very grave bad consequences for society as a whole.

People should not be ignorant about these consequences. That is all the more reason to teach young people to abstain and NOT to use contraceptives.

the RH-Bill will surely improve the S*X lives of couples..

That's ideological garbage with no foundation. The evidence shows otherwise.

I have posted much evidence that shows that contraceptive usage leads to greater risky behavior, more unplanned pregnancies, and more demand for abortion. But, like any person who won't listen to reason, you choose to ignore the evidence.

FACT: Increased contraceptive usage leads to an increase in unwanted pregnancies and an increase in demand for abortion.

• Increased access to contraception not linked to decrease in numbers of unplanned pregnancies, abortions
  http://www.news-medical.net/?id=20761
  
  
  The belief that increased access to contraception will “reduce rates of unintended
  pregnancy and abortion” has “intuitive appeal, but the data prove otherwise,”
  Susan Wills, associate director for education for the U.S. Conference of Catholic
  Bishops’ Secretariat for Pro-Life Activities, writes in a Washington Post letter to
  the editor in response to a Post opinion piece by William Saletan, science and
  technology reporter for Slate magazine.
  
  
• Habit Persistence and Teen ***: Could Increased Access to Contraception have Unintended Consequences for Teen Pregnancies?
  http://www.econ.duke.edu/~psarcidi/teensex.pdf
  
  
  The persistence in sexual activity is such that policies that affect access to
  contraception will have very different effects in the short run than the long run.
  Our results suggest that increasing access to contraception may actually increase
  long run pregnancy rates even though short run pregnancy rates fall. On the other
  and, policies that decrease access to contraception, and hence sexual activity,
  are likely to lower pregnancy rates in the long run.
  
  
• Contraception – It’s time to stop ducking the issue
  http://www.noroomforcontraception.co...t/view/106/57/
  
  
  According to the study Trends in Premarital *** in the United States, 1954-2003,
  the increase in premarital *** amongst a group of teens turning 15 during the
  years 1964-1973 “may be partly due to increased availability of effective
  contraception (in particular, the pill), which made it less likely that *** would lead
  to pregnancy.” (Finer, 2007)
  
  
• The Role of Contraception in Increasing Abortion
  By Ruben Obregon
  http://www.noroomforcontraception.co...d-Abortion.htm

All of this was posted earlier at:

https://www.istorya.net/forums/politi...ml#post5106667

Of course a pro-RH fanatic will simply ignore such evidence. That's what happens when ideology blinds one to reality.

if you impose your beliefs on others, your just like hitler.. (bdw, the church is sometimes acting like hitler, on being a bully at political matters like this RH-bill, different goals, similar method)

This is ridiculous. If you can't discern the HUGE DIFFERENCE between moral persuasion (the Church's method in the RH/Abortion Bill issue) and armed force (Hitler's method in a whole lot of issues) then you have some really serious problems with your thinking. Your posts are getting nuttier by the minute.




PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS AND THOSE OF THE UNBORN.
REJECT THE COERCIVE RH/ABORTION BILL (HB 5043)
Please sign the online petition AGAINST the RH/Abortion Bill (HB5043)
http://www.petitiononline.com/xxhb5043/

[mannyamador]

Here is another article exposing the hidden aboprtion agenda that is behind so-called "repropductive health".

All the more reason to reject the RH/Abortion Bill (HB 5043).


UNFPA to Push Abortion at Population Commission
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/mar/09032704.html

NEW YORK, NY, March 27, 2009 (C-FAM) - As the United Nations (UN) gears up to commemorate the fifteenth anniversary of the International Conference on Population and Development (ICPD+15), UN agencies like the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) and abortion advocates such as the Center for Reproductive Rights (CRR) are pushing “sexual and reproductive health and rights,” with a particular focus on the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs).

The recent CRR publication “Using the Millennium Development Goals to Realize Women’s Reproductive Rights” cites the ICPD as the guide for its work and identifies the MDGs as an access point to push “sexual and reproductive health and rights.” CRR calls on advocates to “take advantage” of the focus on the MDGs as “a significant opportunity for reproductive rights advocates to press governments to comply with their human rights obligations.”

. . .

However, CRR stretches its “reproductive rights” argument even further, to the goal of “developing a global partnership for development” with its targets of cooperating with pharmaceutical companies for access to “affordable and essential” drugs and the private sector to make the benefits of new technologies available. CRR argues that access to such drugs and technology “speak directly to important aspects of women’s reproductive rights, including access to modern contraception” and “safe abortion services.”

More info on abstinence and purity at
True Love Waits Philippines

DEFEND YOUR RIGHTS! NO TO THE COERCIVE, TOTALITARIAN RH/ABORTION BILL (HB 5043)!
Please sign the petition AGAINST the Reproductive Health/Abortion Bill (HB5043)
http://www.petitiononline.com/xxhb5043/

[AmorsoloX]

This is ridiculous. If you can't discern the HUGE DIFFERENCE between moral persuasion (the Church's method in the RH/Abortion Bill issue) and armed force (Hitler's method in a whole lot of issues) then you have some really serious problems with your thinking. Your posts are getting nuttier by the minute.

hmm.. atleast im not the nut who said we should not enjoy s*x.. pasalamat gani ko kay naa condom para anytime pwede (except sa red days).. kay lisud na kung gusto jud ni misis pero dili ka mka provide.. atleast contraceptives allows the couple to enjoy it anytime they want without making a baby..

kung ang vatican parehas pa sa una, naa jud armed force ang church. and people like me would have been dead many times already.. ahm.. hitler "moraly persuaded" germany into war before using armed force.

anyways OT na ta..

the church has no right to interfere with any of the governments actions.. the fact that it bully pro-RH politicians is a transgression. the church like old times is abusing its political influence again..

unsa may mawala sa kung naa RH-bill... hahay.. hantod karon uto2x pa gyud diay ang pinas sa simbahan.. no wonder hinay ato progress.. daghan man kaau superstitions..

naa ko feeling manufacturer sa baby products nag-una2x ani. kay kabalo sila lost profit jud ni if madaun ang RH-BILL

TOTAL SUPPORT for RH-BILL. pro-life.. pro- quality-of-life. no to poverty..

[mannyamador]

hmm.. atleast im not the nut who said we should not enjoy s*x.

No one said we should not enjoy s3x. Who's the nutcase who imagined that was said? You?

atleast contraceptives allows the couple to enjoy it anytime they want without making a baby.

The evidence shows that widespread use of contraceptives leads to more unplanned pregnancies and increased demand for abortion. Do you want that?

the church has no right to interfere with any of the governments actions.. the fact that it bully pro-RH politicians is a transgression. the church like old times is abusing its political influence again..

All Filipinos have a right to lobby and exert influence on the government. That is how a democracy works. The Church is exercising its rights. They are Filipinos.

You don't seem to understand what "separation of Church and state" means. It means the government cannot interfere in religion, NOT the other way around. If you disagree then I challenge the Constitutional provision that explains that "separation of Church and state" m,eans the Church cannot engage in politics.

I think I've asked you that before. You could NOT provide me an answer. That's because there aren't any such Constitutional provisions.

ahm.. hitler "moraly persuaded" germany into war before using armed force.

Wromg. He had goons to help him take over the government years before the war. He used force way before 1939. Can't you get your history straight?



--
NO TO ABORTION. NO TO THE ABORTIFACIENT-PROMOTING RH/ABORTION BILL (HB 5043)
Please sign the petition AGAINST the Reproductive Health/Abortion Bill (HB5043)
http://www.petitiononline.com/xxhb5043/