Karma and Reincarnation.

[regnauld]

Mat 22:29 Apan sa mitubag si Jesus, nag-ingon kanila: Nangasayup kamo, kay wala ninyo hibaloi ang mga Kasulatan, bisan ang gahum sa Dios.

ayaw intawn patakag interprete bro...

Sige dili ta magpataka ug interpret and I will let you show another interpretation!

Hebrews 9:27 Does Not Disprove Reincarnation

Hebrews 9:27 is often quoted out of context as proof that the New Testament preaches against reincarnation. The verse that is quoted says: "... man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,.. KJV.

The logic expressed is that since a man only dies once that this is proof that we only incarnate physically once. The argument goes that if we reincarnate over and over then we die more than once. Since this scripture plainly says we die only once then this scripture obviously disproves reincarnation. However, this logic doesn't hold up. The New Testament teaches that more than one death is possible. In fact it teachs that the majority of mankind is in danger of a second death. Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Why would Hebrews talk of man only dying once and in Revelation speak of man dying twice? Is this a contradiction? There is no contradiction. This is made clear when Hebrews 9:27 is read in the context of what is being taught.

The author of Hebrews 9:27 was not discussing reincarnation at all. The subject being addressed was whether or not Yeshua (Jesus) had to die more than once for the sins of mankind. One of the misconsceptions about the sacrifice Yeshua made for the sins of mankind was whether or not he had to be sacrificed over and over like the sacrifices made in the temple were every year. From the Jewish mindset, this was a legitimate concern. The Jewish law required a blood sacrifice every year for the sins of the nation. The author of Hebrews dispells the notion that Yeshua had to die more than once and this is made clear when it is read in the context of the other verses.
However, this verse isn't talking about reincarnation at all. If you read the entire Chapter of Hebrews 9 you will notice that the subject was about whether or not Christ had to be sacrificed more than once. This is made obvious when the scripture is read in context with the before and after scriptures.


Hebrews 9:19 When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20 He said, "This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep."21 In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. 23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. NIV

The author of Hebrews uses a simile here to make his point that Christ only has to die once. With the exception of individuals such has Lazurus, who died and was physically resurrected by Christ as one of the miracles he performed to prove he was the Messiah, most people only die once. Hebrews 9:27 is not about reincarnation but is part of a series of verses that are discussing something else entirely. As such, the scripture is useless in proving or disproving reincarnation.


Reincarnation: Hebrews 9:27 Does Not Teach Against Reincarnation

So, Have you carefully read and analyzed this?

[regnauld]

Purgatory can erase and cleans all our wrongdoings too. That is why God's love is endless and limitless.

Why is there a need for purgatory? Purgatory for me is here in earth because TO LIVE IS TO SUFFER and to SURVIVE is to FIND MEANING IN THE SUFFERING! Why do I have to go to Purgatory when I am already suffering here on earth? That's very illogical and that is double jeopardy!

[regnauld]

toinks...hahay, same old story...gi istoryahan naman na namo ni reg last year palpak man siya...kinsa kaha nang mga tawhana...wala mana sila gi mention sa bible unsaon man nila pagka church fathers? ang mga church fathers, kadtong mga apostles, evangelists, prophets etc dili nang kung kanus a ra nitunga kay naa rabay prophecy sa bible kung unsang mga tawhana ang mutunga inig kamatay sa mga apostoles...

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

palpak gihapon...

palpak para nimo but for millions out there who use CRITICAL THINKING and not only the bible as the source, you failed too!

[necrotic freak]

Why is there a need for purgatory? Purgatory for me is here in earth because TO LIVE IS TO SUFFER and to SURVIVE is to FIND MEANING IN THE SUFFERING! Why do I have to go to Purgatory when I am already suffering here on earth? That's very illogical and that is double jeopardy!

Well, that is for you sir.

[regnauld]

kalma lang pein ha, ayaw ni loboga. ako ra ka gi inform nga wala ko ga base sa bible.

Yes there are church Fathers that believed in them, like Origen ( 185-254 ), Justin Martyr ( 100-165 ), Irenaeus ( 130-200 ), Tertullian ( 145-220 ), Gregory of Nyssa ( 335-395 ).

Pope Arrested for Believing in Reincarnation

History records that the early Christine church believed in Reincarnation and of the souls journey back to oneness with God. This all changed by Emperial decree some 500 plus years after the death of Christ.

Emperor Justinian in 545 A.D. was able to apply the full power of Rome and his authority to stop the belief in reincarnation. He forced the ruling cardinals to draft a papal decree stating that anyone who believes that souls come from God and return to God will be punished by death. The actual decree stated:



“If anyone asserts the fabulous preexistence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema. (The Anathemas against Origen), attached to the decrees of the Fifth Ecumenical Council, A.D. 545, in Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, 2d ser., 14: 31.”

What does it mean when it says monstrous restoration? This passage is aimed straight at the teachings handed down from Yeshua (Jesus) the Christ to his disciples that mankind came from God and was destined to become one with God as he was one with God. When the Jews tried to stone him for calling himself the son of God, Jesus responded by reminding them that were all gods.



John 10:33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." 34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? 35 If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came--and the Scripture cannot be broken-- 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? NIV

Later, just before Christ was crucified, he revealed in a prayer that he wanted his disciple to become one with God just as he was.



Jesus Prays for All Believers

John 17:20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23 I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. NIV

A prominent theologian named Origen wrote around 250 AD about the pre-existence of the soul. He taught that the soul’s very source was God and that the soul was traveling back to oneness with God via the lessons learned in multiple lives. He taught that Christ came to show us what we can become. For centuries this was the mainstream view of Christianity but 300 years later it became a huge issue and the belief was made illegal because Emperor Constantine believed it was dangerous to the Empire to believe in reincarnation.



In the sixth century A.D., Emperor Justinian and Pope Vigilius disagreed on whether or not the teachings of Origen should be condemned as heresy. The Pope supported the teaching as being consistent with the teachings of Jesus the Messiah. The Emperor was determined to eradicate the belief even though the Pope and the church believed in reincarnation. The fact that the doctrine of reincarnation had been a part of Christian theology for over 500 years did not sway the Emperor.
Origen's writings were considered heresy by important cardinals in the sixth century. Origen's teachings had been considered as profound spiritual wisdom for three centuries. Origen lived around 250 AD and wrote about the pre-existence of the soul and in reincarnation. He taught that the soul’s very source was God and that the soul’s was traveling back to oneness with God via Reincarnation.



Emperor Justinian wanted Origen’s writings and teachings to be condemned and destroyed but Pope Vigilius refused to sign a papal decree condemning Origen's teachings on reincarnation. As a result of his disobedience, the Emperor had the Pope arrested and put into jail. In 543, Justinian convoked the Fifth General Council of the Church and told the Pope he would sign whatever into doctrine whatever the council decided. On the way there, under guard, the Pope escaped to avoid being forced to condemn Origen’s writings. The Emperor commanded the council to continue despite the Pope’s refusal to attend.



There was a logical reason why the Emperor was opposed to the concept that all of mankind originally came from God and was returing to God via the cycle of birth and death. Justinian had been convinced by high ranking cardinals that it was not in the interest of the empire to allow Origen's writings to continue to be copied and distributed. A powerful group of Cardinal’s and Bishop’s explained that if every soul had once pre-existed with God, then Christ wasn’t anything special to have come from God. These Cardinals convinced the Emperor that if people realized they were the children of God they might begin to believe they no longer needed an Emperor, or to pay taxes, or to obey the Holy Church. But since they reasoned that only Christ had come from God but God made brand new souls at the time of conception and only the Holy Church could bring these souls to God. Without the protection of the Empire or the guidance of the church, all people would be doomed to be forever cut off from God in Hell. This doctrine was very acceptabloe to the Emperor. Once Justinian understood the political danger inherent in Origen’s teachings, the rest was simply an Emperor doing what was in his best interest.



The council, as instructed by the Emperor, produced fourteen new anathemas and the very first one condemned reincarnation and the concept that souls pre-existed with God.



"If anyone asserts the fabulous preexistence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema."

Even though these events are in the history books, modern Christianity treats the doctrine of reincarnation today as if Jesus never taught it or that the early church ever believed it. The fact that a soul comes from God and is destined to become God, as Christ is God, is the very reason why Satan rebelled.


Reincarnation is one of the Lost Doctrines of Christianity.

[The_Child]

Also through here passes a spiral stairway, which sinks abysmally and soars upwards to remote
distances. In the hallway there is a mirror which faithfully duplicates all appearances. -Borges, The Library of Babel

[Tirong-say]

Vladimir Zatovka, head of the reanimation department in the Kaliningrad regional hospital revealed many astonishing facts about life and death when journalists interviewed him several years ago. The experienced doctor believes that clinical death is one of the biggest mysteries that modern science still cannot solve. Indeed, patients who revive after clinical death say they get some mysterious information and learn new things. Journalists were slightly shocked to hear the doctor saying the soul actually exists and lives its individual life.

Extracted from:

The Great Reincarnation Debate Not Solved Yet

"As far back as I can remember I have unconsciously referred to the experiences of a previous state of existence."
- Henry David Thoreau

Doctrine of reincarnation is neither absurd nor useless. "It is not more surprising to be born twice than once."
- Voltaire

[Existanz]

Well I could be wrong and you could be wrong too!

Let us analyze another context and the real translation of that verse from a bible scholar!

Paul said in Hebrews 9:27 that "it is appointed unto men once to die"

This misreading comes from a mistake, made while translating the original text in Greek to Latin and from there passed to all versions that took the Latin Vulgate as source. The problem starts with the Greek syntax which has the word "once" before the subject "men" so instead of translated in the way that you read in your Vulgata's inspired Bible (yes, your KJV use it as it main source), it should read: It is appointed once men die"... Otherwise, we must believe then that the son of the Ebionite woman, Lazarus and the young girl that Jesus resucitated should be alive today...since they already died -therefore the need to be resucitated- and considering that there is not other possible death, they stood arose to live forever...

Facts and Myths on Reincarnation - 144000.net

Heb 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this cometh judgment...

Regarding Judgment:

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.

[Existanz]

Q: Is there a proof of the existence of reincarnation?

Yes, and increbidly enough, both in the spiritual and in the science fields. In the New Testament read about the reincarnation of the spirit of Elijah into John the Baptist. And that this is not a metaphor is proven by the very words of Jesus Christ in Matthew 14:14. And from a scientific point of view look at Reincarnation and Human Science to see what advanced science has found regarding past lives and reincarnation.

Mat 14:14 And he came forth, and saw a great multitude, and he had compassion on them, and healed their sick.

Wala lagi diri about reincarnation Reg?

[Existanz]

Q: Where is the logic or the need for reincarnation?

If there is no reincarnation, then God's love and forgiveness are not unlimited, it has a limit, our sins. But if, as Jesus stated and John confirmed, God's love is endless and limitless, there should be a way in which the spirit can erase all his wrongdoings and errors. And that way is reincarnation.

Reg, kadto ba'ng mga 6 million Jews nga gi-ihaw ni Aryan Boy Hitler, buot pasabot tungod to sa mga bad karma sa 6-million Jews nga victims? How about to'ng 21% sa population sa Cambodia nga gi-execute ni Pol Pot, buot ba pasabot nga tungod to sa bad karma sa mga victims?

Also, assuming nga mi-reincarnate na ni sila Hitler ug Pol Pot unsa man ila life forms ron? Tao ra gapon sila? If yes, sa unsang paagi ka maka-ingon nga nag-serve na sila ron sa ilang karma?