Holy? Inquisition

[Pein]

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unya kung amo gidawat bro sala bana?.. unsaon man ganahan man muhatag 4 the reason wala mi kbaw.. or bcn ganahan cla mutabang..

sala na oi...wala diay ka kahibalo nga abomination sa mata sa Ginoo ang halad sa dautan? giunsa man ninyo pagsure nga ang gihatag sa tawo nga dili ninyo member dili gikan sa dautan? aw hinuon mudawat man gihapon mo bisan pag dis a na gikan, kintahay ang kinitaan sa burikat ninyo nga member nga gikan sa ilang pagpamuring dawaton man gihapon ninyo noh? kwarta na gud na...

[dartzed]

sala na oi...wala diay ka kahibalo nga abomination sa mata sa Ginoo ang halad sa dautan? giunsa man ninyo pagsure nga ang gihatag sa tawo nga dili ninyo member dili gikan sa dautan? aw hinuon mudawat man gihapon mo bisan pag dis a na gikan, kintahay ang kinitaan sa burikat ninyo nga member nga gikan sa ilang pagpamuring dawaton man gihapon ninyo noh? kwarta na gud na...

bang! unsa mani oi kalimot naman ni sa commandment nga "thou shall not bear false witness" lolz.. how sure are you bro nga inyo member walay kwarta gikan sad sa dautan pud?

[regnauld]

kindly elaborate mr. regnauld..interesting lagi na..what is this conformity to authority?..in my opinion i think it was unbridled greed and paranoia

The so called Holy Inquisition can be likened to the Holocaust done in World was II.


Authority, Conformity, Obedience and the Holocaust
By Bob Curtis



Today, many people in the U.S. say, 'We don't need to protect ourselves from tyranny; the Holocaust happened in the 1940's, and it's now the 21st Century - and besides, this is America, we Americans are more independent, people here would resist any authority such as Hitler.' Well, I'd like to think this is true, BUT there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

• <LI class=contentarea_ul>First, consider this passage from the book Night by Elie Wiesel, a Jewish survivor of the Holocaust and winner of the 1986 Nobel Peace Prize:
  "Spring 1944... People said 'The Russian army's making gigantic strides forward... Hitler won't be able to do us any harm, even if he wants to.' Yes, we even doubted that he wanted to exterminate us. Was he going to wipe out a whole people? Could he exterminate a population scattered throughout so many countries? So many millions! What methods could he use? And in the middle of the twentieth century!" Sound familiar? And just look at how late in the war this was - 1944 - and even then these Jews doubted their imminent destruction at the hands of Hitler's troops. So, being in a certain year, decade, century, geographical location or whatever, does not necessarily keep one safe from tyranny, nor does present safety necessarily mean safety in the future.
  <LI class=contentarea_ul>Second, we must look at some experiments conducted here in the U.S. by Stanley Milgram throughout the 1960's and 1970's, some 20-30 years after the World War II and the Holocaust (my source of information on these experiments is Social Psychology by David G Myers, p. 208-217). Milgram's feeling was that people in the U.S. would be more independent and more willing to resist authority when ordered to inflict pain on others. To prove this, his initial experiments were designed to see if an average American could be persuaded to inflict a cruelty equal to those cruelties performed under Nazi rule in Germany.
  For each experiment, a 'teacher' and a 'learner' were brought into a room by an experimenter dressed in a lab coat (unbeknownst to the teacher, who was the actual subject of the experiment, the learner was actually an actor in league with the experimenter). They were both then told that the experiment was to see how physical punishment affected learning. The teacher then watched as the experimenter strapped the learner into a chair and an 'electrode' was attached to him. The teacher was then led into an adjoining room, where he could hear but no longer see the learner, and placed in front of a control panel labeled 'Shock Generator.' The control panel had a series of switches labeled with various levels of electrical shocks ranging from 15 to 450 volts, in 15 volt increments. Various positions on the voltage dial were further labeled, from 'Slight Shock' on up to 'Very Strong Shock,' and even 'Danger: Severe Shock.' Under 435 and 450 volts was merely printed 'XXX.' The teacher was then given a long series of questions to ask the learner, and was told to shock the learner for every wrong answer; the shocks were to begin at 15 volts, but for every wrong answer the learner gave, the teacher was to increase the level of 'shock' given by the 15 volt incriments.
  As the experiment went on and the 'shocks' were increased, the actor would begin to complain increasingly, first with simple grunts and then later with complaints about severe pain, cries to end the experiment, refusal to answer further questions, and finally even going totally silent (as if passed out or even dead); whenever the learner refused to answer, or was silent, the experimenter prompted the teacher to consider any non-responses to any question as wrong and to shock him accordingly. If the teacher asked to quit the experiment at any point, the experimenter prodded him to continue by saying things like 'Please continue,' 'The experiment requires that you continue,' 'It is absolutely essential that you continue,' 'You have no other choice, you must go on,' etc. In later experiments, he changed various factors (such as supposed heart conditions in the learner) to see how they changed the results, but most of his experiments were based on this general scenerio.
  Before his initial experiment in 1965, Milgram "described his experiment to 110 psychiatrists, college students and middle-class adults. They were then asked, how far would you go as the 'teacher.' Most felt that they would quit the experiment by around 135 volts, and none felt that they would go beyond 300 volts. They were then asked, how far would others go, and almost none of them expected anyone proceed all the way to 450 volts. In fact, on average the psychiatrists guessed that one in one thousand would go all the way to 450 volts.
  The actual results, however, completely surprised and disturbed everyone involved. When the experiment was initially conducted, 25 of the 40 participants went all the way to 450 volts!. The disturbing conclusion here is that 65% of the teachers continued with the experiment, even when their learner asked to quit the experiment or when they seemed to be dying or to have died. In later experiments Milgram changed various factors and the results also changed, but in general the results were very similar.
  Milgram said of the subjects of these experiments,
  "Some subjects were totally convinced of the wrongness of what they were doing... and felt that - within themselves, at least - they had been on the side of the angels. What they failed to realize is that subjective feelings are largely irrelevant to the moral issue at hand so long as they are not transformed into action. Political control is effected through action... Tyrannies are perpetuated by difficult men who do not possess the courage to act out their beliefs. Time and again in the experiment people disvalued what they were doing but could not muster their inner resources to translate their values into action." (1974) And these are the independent, rebellious Americans everyone is relying on to not give in to tyrannical authority?!?!?
  See Social Psychology: Obedience, Overview of Milgram's Theory and Milgram's own book Obedience To Authority for more info on Milgram's obedience experiments and theories.
  <LI class=contentarea_ul>Third, consider this statement by Robert F. Melson, Professor of Political Science at Purdue University. He states
  "Since the Second World War many more people have been killed as victims of domestic massacres and partial or total genocide's than by international war. State-perpetrated massacres are a greater danger to the world community than war itself." Stalin, Hussein and Milosovich are only easy, famous examples of such modern day tyrants... there are MANY others. This CAN happen and IS happening in the here and now.
  
  
  <LI class=contentarea_ul>Fourth, consider some real world examples of soldiers who were "just following orders."
  1. Adolf Eichmann, at the Nuremberg trials after world war two, said he was only following orders when he caused, together with others, the slaughter and torture of Jews as a part of the Nazi's "Final Solution of the Jewish Question."
     Hannah Arendt said of Eichmann, "Eichmann did not hate Jews, and that made it worse, to have no feelings. To make Eichmann appear a monster renders him less dangerous than he was. If you kill a monster you can go to bed and sleep, for there aren't many of them. But if Eichmann was normality, then this is a far more dangerous situation."
     See also The Trial of Adolf Eichmann
  2. William Calley, who ordered a slaughter of hundreds of innocent Vietnamese in the village of My Lai. In the trial regarding this incident, one participant recalled that Calley,
     "told me to start shooting. So I started shooting, I poured about four clips into the group... They were begging and saying, 'No, no.' And the mothers were hugging their children and... Well, we kept right on firing. They was [sic] waving their arms and begging..." (Social Psychology, David G Myers, p. 214).
     See also The My Lai Courts-Martial 1970

Authority, Conformity and the Holocaust

If the Roman Catholic Church was a military organization, the authorities like the Pope and Cardinals would have been court marshalled and put into prison for taking part in the orders of the torture and killing of innocent civilians during the Spanish Inquistion.

[Pein]

bang! unsa mani oi kalimot naman ni sa commandment nga "thou shall not bear false witness" lolz.. how sure are you bro nga inyo member walay kwarta gikan sad sa dautan pud?

mao na diha kay wala man gud mo tudlui sa inyong mga pari kung unsay tarong nga panginabuhi...sa amo una bawal mangawat. bawal magnegosyo nga gikan sa dautan like sugalan, mamaligyag mga sigarilyo, beer, bawal magtrabaho ug illegal or dautan nga trabaho like prosti, etc etc...kamo naa mo ana? wala tanan bisan unsang negosyoha bahalag makadaot sa iyang isig ka tawo basta mukita lang pwede na sa inyo diba? sa amo dili na pwede maong maka sure mi dili gikan sa dautan ang kwarta nga madawat sa Iglesia. kung naa man gani makalusot, aw ang manubag sa Ginoo ana ang nihatag.

ipakaon ni nga verse sa inyong pari sis...

Pro 21:27 The sacrifice of the wicked is abomination: how much more, when he bringeth it with a wicked mind?

sa inyo sus bahalag gikan pa sa drug lord, gikan sa sugal, gikan sa prosti, gikan sa mga illegal nga binuhatan ang kwarta, dawat gihapon ang inyong mga pari kwarta na gud na...

[dartzed]

mao na diha kay wala man gud mo tudlui sa inyong mga pari kung unsay tarong nga panginabuhi...sa amo una bawal mangawat. bawal magnegosyo nga gikan sa dautan like sugalan, mamaligyag mga sigarilyo, beer, bawal magtrabaho ug illegal or dautan nga trabaho like prosti, etc etc...kamo naa mo ana? wala tanan bisan unsang negosyoha bahalag makadaot sa iyang isig ka tawo basta mukita lang pwede na sa inyo diba? sa amo dili na pwede maong maka sure mi dili gikan sa dautan ang kwarta nga madawat sa Iglesia. kung naa man gani makalusot, aw ang manubag sa Ginoo ana ang nihatag.

ipakaon ni nga verse sa inyong pari sis...

Pro 21:27 The sacrifice of the wicked is abomination: how much more, when he bringeth it with a wicked mind?

sa inyo sus bahalag gikan pa sa drug lord, gikan sa sugal, gikan sa prosti, gikan sa mga illegal nga binuhatan ang kwarta, dawat gihapon ang inyong mga pari kwarta na gud na...

how can you tell nga wicked ang usa ka donation bro?..

[Pein]

how can you tell nga wicked ang usa ka donation bro?..

kung ang kwarta nga gihatag gikan sa tawo nga dautan ug gikan sa dautan gikita ang kwarta...wala lagi mo ana lagi sa inyo bisan pag asa gikan ang kwarta dawat gihapon mo kwarta na gud na...

[dartzed]

kung ang kwarta nga gihatag gikan sa tawo nga dautan ug gikan sa dautan gikita ang kwarta...wala lagi mo ana lagi sa inyo bisan pag asa gikan ang kwarta dawat gihapon mo kwarta na gud na...

giunsa man sad nimo pagkabaw kung dautan ang nagdonate or deli?..

[Pein]

giunsa man sad nimo pagkabaw kung dautan ang nagdonate or deli?..

mao bitaw para maka sure mi nga dili gikan sa dautan ang kwarta nga among madawat, dili mi mudawat ug kwarta sa dili namo kapareho ug pagtuo. bisan gani ug member na bawalan paghatag ug kwarta kung dautan ang binuhatan...

[dartzed]

mao bitaw para maka sure mi nga dili gikan sa dautan ang kwarta nga among madawat, dili mi mudawat ug kwarta sa dili namo kapareho ug pagtuo. bisan gani ug member na bawalan paghatag ug kwarta kung dautan ang binuhatan...

so how sure are you lagi nga walay wicked donation nahitabo dha sa inyo simbahan?..

[r3roble]

so how sure are you lagi nga walay wicked donation nahitabo dha sa inyo simbahan?..

makaila siguro sila sa nawong plang...