The Philippine Situation: A change in social dynamics is what we need

[raski]

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If by instant gratification you mean the satisfaction of man's biological, physiological needs, as I have earlier discussed using Maslow's theory of the hierarchy of needs, that is but natural. For how can one even labor to understand things on an empty stomach(we all know hunger has its consequences to our mental processes).

It is not that our people are too lazy to work, there may be jobs available, but this are jobs that they cannot do because they do not have the necessary skills and they cannot afford the training to acquire the required skill.

That is why we have to elect leaders who are able to provide the people with the skills, training and education needed to survive in our complex and modern world. And you are totally wrong in saying our people are not too lazy to work. That is not to say that all of our people are lazy, but laziness in our culture is pervasive and insidious.

You are missing the whole point. I never said go ahead let's force businesses to give everything they have to charity, which is in fact a form of socialism Marx describes as conservative or bourgeious socialism, a sick attempt at making the masses believe that the businessman is doing his share for the benefit of the masses. The way you respond tells me you actually did not read point for point what is being discussed. Go back to the wealth pie analogy I earlier posted.

But why should anyone be forced to do anything? If the position of a businessman is so coveted and so wonderful, why don't we have more people just DYING to become a businessman? You talk about Marx as if you'd be completely happy for businessmen to be forced to give away everything they've dreamed up and conceived (though it seems even that isn't enough for you -- how far will you go really?). The keyword being FORCED. On the other hand, nobody is forcing the employee to work for the businessmen. If he wants he can go establish his own business. If the issue is simply that of capital and we have so many genius entrepreneurs just waiting to be unleashed upon our grateful society, then perhaps the government should provide seed money so a thousand businesses can bloom throughout the country and there will be scarcity in labor. Viola! Utopia. High wages for everyone. Oh!!! But what about this thing called REALITY... the real, sad fact that the people who are not businessmen, do not have the vision, diligence and ideas to keep a company from falling on itself. Oh right, but let's continue to dream that every single person in the Philippines is an intelligent being deserving of 'his equal share'. Unfortunately, you may have to discuss with God the reason why IQ is in the form of a bell-curve as opposed to a flat line, as most communists are wont to believe.

As what grovestreet has pointed out, there is stratification in the delivery of even the most basic of services. Further he mentioned, people won't fix things when there is no money in it for them. How much more if we change the system and take away a part of the estate away from the few hands that control them as a measure of social equity?

SIMPLE: Create a company that provides these basic services directly to the people. If it's so easy to vertically integrate everything, eliminate the middleman, then heck there's money to be made there man! It's that easy right? Waste no time, go make that company post-haste! Because distributors provide no value with their stupid logistics mumbo-jumbo, because packagers provide no value what with their stupid way of placing food in convenient packaging for easy transport, because markets provide no value what with their dumb way of selling to people in convenient places when those people can just walk all the way to the damned farm and pick the fruit themselves. Clearly all these things are useless and need to be done away with so we can live in Nirvana. Get real...

Simply put, there is not enough jobs for everyone because businesses have packed their bags to lands where they can exploit cheaper labor.

No, that is the wrong way to look at it. Our labor is cheap because we are incompetent and uncompetitive with the rest of the world. If we were better than everyone at everything, we would be unbelievably rich, but of course we're not rich, because we're incompetent. That is common sense.

Imagine something like the iPhone or a flat screen LCD TV being invented here. ACTUALLY NO DON'T IMAGINE IT, it will just make you sad to be you and for us to be us. It won't happen here because our system encourages laziness and unimaginative behavior and our Constitution has been corrupted by communist insertions. Even our justice system with the "those who have less in life should have more in law" mentality has been corrupted by marxist ideology of certain Justices that should have long been relegated to the trash pile called "failed ideas".

[raski]

dili man tingali kinahanglan gyud nga mag armed struggle para ma change ang social dynamics. Businesses can start say for example with sharing at least 20-30% of their net profits to their employees who by the way worked hard for them to realize that profit anyway.

I can tell you that this is already happening in most businesses. In fact, 50-60% of REVENUE in some businesses goes to SALARIES AND WAGES. And businesses are expected to give more than this to the employees? Why don't the employees set up their own business, maybe they will learn to appreciate how hard it is to actually make a profit in the first place...

he classic case of the NBA superstar with his multi-million shoe endorsement deals that sell for sky-high retail prices yet are manufactured using child laborers in Indonesia, China or Vietnam

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this statement. I guess you're missing a few very obvious things here. Firstly, the multi-million shoe endorsement. It's multimillion because it is hard to be an NBA superstar. Do you agree or disagree with that statement? If you disagree, then go join the NBA then. If anybody could be Kobe Bryant, then nobody would whining about multi-million dollar shoe endorsements. Fact of the matter is, once again, someone who envies and is not capable of being that which he envies, whines instead.

Now about child laborers, that is only because the law has not been enforced in those countries. But if we're talking about ordinary laborers, then they get whatever wages their services are able to acquire. That's fair. The people who designed those shoes, who make the attractive packaging and who market them deserve more because they are the people who actually SELL the shoes. If these shoes are being sold for sky-high prices, why are people buying them? Because they like them, because they really are better or look better or are simply cooler. Otherwise you or I could design some stupid ugly shoe and people would buy them. Actually this happens in communist countries because ugly shoes are the only kinds of shoes that can be sold and anyone who dares make a nicer, cooler shoe gets shot in the head...

I also want to respond to your comment regarding the spot market. Actually, that is a pretty useless analogy, because trading in foreign exchange is more akin to gambling. Of course, as with gambling, those who play such games should be aware that any gains have to come from someone's loss and vice-versa. The more fitting analogy would be that of the stock market, as it is the epitome of the global capitalist system, and in such a market it is actually possible for everyone to lose money and possible for everyone to gain money as well. It has at its basis, corporate capability to create value and also reflects improvements in productivity. The communists would have us believe that it is a zero-sum game, that someone always loses whenever someone gains. This is not how the real world works, if everyone is good at something, and that something is equally desired by all, then everyone GAINS. Unfortunately, the sad fact or reality so to speak is that not everyone is good at many things, in fact I would go so far as to say as that some people are just so bad, they aren't good at anything at all. And so they lose, and being the sore losers or sourgrapes that they are -- they blame "the system" in this case the "evil" capitalist system instead of blaming themselves for being unable to come up with anything valuable or valuable enough for anyone else.

In reality though, the capitalist system is a value-neutral system, it is neither good nor bad, it is valueless because that is all it is a SYSTEM and those who contribute value gain whereas those who are adept only at whining and obsessed with their own incompetence and incapability to rectify said incompetence, lose. The communist system, on the other hand, being a totally fake system that needs to be imposed by force upon people to take away all their ingenuity, creativity, drive and intelligence, is a man-made system that is evil precisely because it is biased and tends to devalue the ingenuity of some and overvalue the contribution of the incompetent. A laborer who does nothing but twist screws into cars is in reality not as important as the person who actually invented the car, but the communist system seeks to impose the idea that they are! It is a system that tries to squeeze a square peg into a round hole...

Lastly man can never transcend our animal instincts because we are basically just animals. Actually, this is the biggest conceit of communists and communist propaganda, that they seek to place man upon some kind of pedestal, as if we are transcendent beings that gloat over the poor insignificant "animals". But look at what these people do when they try to implement communism.. you can argue all you want that Cambodia, North Korea and Russia (in its time) are failed implementations of communism, but the fact you cannot deny is that the objective was always to implement communism as espoused by marx in these countries, whether or not it is the communism you envision is irrelevant because the people who attempted this awful experiment in their societies believed THEY WERE. That is all that matters. And these people ended up butchering, torturing and creating suffering that would embarrass even the wildest, base animal. So much for transcendence. Capitalism works because humans are animals and cannot transcend certain animal traits! Once you communists realize that, so much the better so you can stop dreaming that we are something more than what we really are. Capitalists are realists who have learned to make the most out of our imperfection and live in our world. Communists are dreamers who are not grounded in reality, and are imagining a utopia that doesn't exist and end up creating a nightmare in this world whilst their utopia remains forever out of reach. It really is that simple...

[meru_valley09]

[quote=raski;5324166]I can tell you that this is already happening in most businesses. In fact, 50-60% of REVENUE in some businesses goes to SALARIES AND WAGES. And businesses are expected to give more than this to the employees? Why don't the employees set up their own business, maybe they will learn to appreciate how hard it is to actually make a profit in the first place...

bai, can you give some data on this It's a bit interesting should this be a fact...

ang by the way can you differentiate between SALARY & WAGES....aside sa spelling ha...

[unsay_ngalan_nimo]

[QUOTE=meru_valley09;5325806]

differentiate between SALARY & WAGES....aside sa spelling ha...

slary kay kang monthly na imo madawat... wage kanang every day rate nimo sa imo pagtrabaho... salry kuyog na allowance ana wage ang rate ra gyud na evryday.... ay ambot sad...

[thadzonline]

the problem with mr.politico and mr. tv game show is they dont teach them how to fish but give them the fish instead...

as like what master bob ong said : "walang gamot sa tanga kundi pagkukusa"


and being lazy and depending on polticians and luck is plain stupidity.

True. Pero daghan ana nila naay mga trabaho pero di lang gyud magkasya ang kita sa kamahal sa prices sa basic commodities.

is MArlow hierachy of need still applicable? ummm... wait i've read somewhere naa nay updated version ana... like those people na mag hungerstrike parehas ni gandhi and buddah and even jesus sa iya 40 days of fasting and dying on the cross... last na ang biological need kay gi-una ang ila ideology..

what the for the balana the maslow still applies...

What percentage of the population are the Gandhi's, the Buddha's and Jesus? Further research following Maslow has pegged the figure at 2%, mostly those that have entered the realm of religious and the mystical(rightly so, Buddha and Jesus, and in later years Mother Teresa). I wouldn't go as far as arguing that the kind of self-transcendence these personalities displayed came much later near the twilight of their lives, probably when they already have been exposed to what the world has to offer, but even this is interesting as an object of inquiry.

Besides, we'd look stupid telling all the hungry people, forget about your hunger, let's be upright first. Or Pasagdi ug magutom na or magsakit ang imong mga bata basta unahon sa gyud nato ang mamahimong matarong. Mas dali man gud na if unta fair lang ang access sa social services, pero dili man in reality.

[wikki]

@thadzonline - its not dli ma kasya ang kita sa basic commodities ang unang paliton nila nig dawat sa kwarta, or sa wala pa gani ang sweldo mang utang na, mu palit og lapad! frankly its not that the governments not providing any jobs, its also the majority of the people that are really to lazy and to stupid to even try to comprehend the situation they are in and take the necessary steps to better themselves. walay mga disiplina, and im a witness to this everyday in fact. suwayi adto sa carbon market or any squater area aron ma kita gyud nimo kung unsa ang taw diri. mao gyud na ang batasan sa majority, i didnt say all, there are those who really work and achieve things and i really respect that. your spouting theories and ideas like youve memorized them, but i suggest you to see the actual thing before you even post.

[wikki]

@thadzonline - if youre just replying for the sake of a debate then stop, youre actually defending all the wrong things in this country that in fact alone is dumb enough. BTW: are you still a student? or an activist cuz you definitely reply like one. and the last paragraph in your last post is actually what people in Japan and China did after WW2 and look at were they stand now, excusses are what people in this country have the most. while its pure unflenching dicipline thats needed. take a good look at countries that were colonized by the spanish and spain itself, how are they now? see the problem!. this country needs a cultural revolution and the entire government purged clean of all officials.

oh and the dumbest concept of people here is that they really want to have kids alot and they breed like freakin dogs and then complain that they cant feed thier 8!!! children or more while earning so little, so whats stupid again

[raski]

@thadzonline - if youre just replying for the sake of a debate then stop, youre actually defending all the wrong things in this country that in fact alone is dumb enough. BTW: are you still a student? or an activist cuz you definitely reply like one. and the last paragraph in your last post is actually what people in Japan and China did after WW2 and look at were they stand now, excusses are what people in this country have the most. while its pure unflenching dicipline thats needed.

I think you hit the nail right on the head gyud bai.. Notice nga when the real debate and arguments are fielded he doesn't even bother to reply kai memorize+regurgitate ra gyud na iyahang mga propaganda. He does not know how to directly, even collaterally, attack any counterarguments because he does not even understand the propaganda deeply enough to be able to formulate an effective rebuttal to the issues laid forward.

oh and the dumbest concept of people here is that they really want to have kids alot and they breed like freakin dogs and then complain that they cant feed thier 8!!! children or more while earning so little, so whats stupid again

On this issue I will have to totally disagree with you. I do not believe that the majority of people here actually want to have 8 or 9 children. The problem is that they are not given effective tools and education to plan their families carefully. It is well established fact that the more educated women are, the fewer children they have. That is what is lacking in this country. Look at the people who tend to have very large families, they are not the university educated grads who have the best jobs but the uneducated ones (either by choice through laziness or by circumstance through our governments inability to provide acceptable mass education).

In other countries, like China, they simply pass laws that directly control the number of children parents can have, which I think is unduly restrictive but nonetheless WORKS. I'm more in favor of greater spending in education and reproductive health information and contraceptive dissemination which will also work and make a dramatic impact on overall poverty levels (see: experience in Thailand).

[wikki]

china is another issue its not that its people are breeding like crazy (im not being biased here), its that its a huge fertile country to begin with just like India (very fertile rice and other crop lands), and its population has been huge since acient times. the problem came when china industrialized and that it had to develop and urbanize huge scales of land and with that the loss of fertile agricultural lands, the policy works of course and people there are following cuz its a fact that if they grow even more its land cant support them anymore. note: when india gets to a level of urbanization like that of china (i mean asphalt city and factories) their also gonna have huge problems on food shortages, thier already having problems now on a small scale especially on rice.

if you compare the two China and PHP, thier not in contrast in relation to population percentage, land lize and crop productive lands.

the last post i made was also a fact on the majority of people, only a small percentage of educated people are family planning, well if youre in a city then youd think that its a lot because actually thats the most of them, its a totally different case in provinces and squater areas. ive been there and have seen it, ive even asked people around carbon market area. and i agree with you that education is the way to help the people understand, but also a serious need for culture change. gahi man gud ulo mga taw diri, may kaayo mang supo wala pa gani naka sabot or naka human ang ang storya suphon na.

another fact though, daghan mga taw karon naay mga kabit tag 3 pa gani ahak lang, then naay daghan mga anak sa gawas, so even if you say nga tag 2-3 ra ang anak sa kana na family, apila ihap ang naa sa gawas, pila naman tanan?

[BananaQ]

Better close this thread. Nindot ra man ni ug title, no need to further discuss this topic.

I really don't hate pump attendants. Actually I even give tips to some nicer ones. I doubt if they even consider sharing those with anyone there. But I do have a problem if anyone claims that their contribution to their company is worth this much and that much, when it's very far from the truth. Give me a 25-centavo discount at a gas station and I will pump gas there myself. Done that abroad, why not here? Actually, make that if the pump attendant is so slow as to not notice your car in front of the pump until you actually honk, I'll gladly just pump the gas myself so that I can leave the gas station faster without any additional discount. That's how valuable their services are to me, so please... don't start telling me that they deserve thousands and thousands of additional profit sharing, and the gas prices will then go up again to accommodate these leftist demands.