MERGED: All About RP-US Mutual Defense Treaty/ VFA-MLSA and Related Issues

[diatabz]

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No one should do so, in my opinion. The world is far better off with power diffused. I think that's true internal to societies as well. I wish it were true that US power was used to "encourage democracy and the freedom to earn an equal wage" and to "promote freedom." I'm afraid that belief will not stand up to investigation.

Unfortunately, things in the real world don't work out that way. If it did, I'm sure we'd have a picture of Marx in each of our homes yeah? History has taught us some lessons, as Vern pointed out. Not every government handles the power it wields very well. Sure America has made some mistakes, particularly over the last decade, but they still are the defenders of truth and beauty, so to speak.

Now I don't think America should police the world. We have far enough problems at home. But neither do we want to go to extremes and isolate ourselves from the rest of the planet. To go about things and act only when they affect our vital interests seems morally bankrupt. Saying, "Who cares? It doesn't affect us." is wrong. If people hate America for meddling in the interests of other nations, I assure you that even more will despise us for adopting that policy.

There's a time to act, and there's a time to let things be. When you see two guys having a heated argument in a bar, you leave them alone. But when one dude is beating the crap out of the other, would you not do something if you were capable? This is an over-simplified analogy of course, but in essence presents the basic problem of this issue.

What America is doing in the Philippines doesn't even infringe on our sovereignty. There's hardly a reason to complain.

[CaliforniaKid]

Diffusion of power works just fine when all the parties agree that power needs to be diffused. This is actually the whole principle the US government is based on: checks and balances. The power is diffused between the judicial, legislative, and executive branches, all of which ultimately answer to the law and to the American people. It only works because everybody really believes it works.

On the global scale, there is no mutual belief in the need for a diffusion of power. What you really have are a number of nations that want to conquer their neighbors, commit genocide against rival ethnic groups, and control trade routes and strategic resources. The fact that there is a diffusion of power among these nations often leads to violent conflict and mass destruction rather than to peace. Frankly, the good guys need to stand together against the bad guys. I believe both the US and the Philippines are good guys.

[vern]

Are we to assume that the US know the interests of others?

The US knows it's interest.

[dmcebu]

Let the US invade the Philippines, we need the US very badly. We don't have AIRFORCE, NAVY, COAST GUARD to protect our country.

[grovestreet]

Unfortunately, things in the real world don't work out that way. If it did, I'm sure we'd have a picture of Marx in each of our homes yeah? History has taught us some lessons, as Vern pointed out. Not every government handles the power it wields very well. Sure America has made some mistakes, particularly over the last decade, but they still are the defenders of truth and beauty, so to speak.

Now I don't think America should police the world. We have far enough problems at home. But neither do we want to go to extremes and isolate ourselves from the rest of the planet. To go about things and act only when they affect our vital interests seems morally bankrupt. Saying, "Who cares? It doesn't affect us." is wrong. If people hate America for meddling in the interests of other nations, I assure you that even more will despise us for adopting that policy.

There's a time to act, and there's a time to let things be. When you see two guys having a heated argument in a bar, you leave them alone. But when one dude is beating the crap out of the other, would you not do something if you were capable? This is an over-simplified analogy of course, but in essence presents the basic problem of this issue.

What America is doing in the Philippines doesn't even infringe on our sovereignty. There's hardly a reason to complain.

of course, in the "real world" meaning the f--ked up world... diffusing power would seem idealistic and contrary to "human nature" (as if there is only one human nature).
but i can dream can I? hehe

i still stand firm on my belief that military institutions are an outmoded institution. but this is not what this thread is about.

[people watcher]

una, maayo tingali atong tanawn ang situation gkan sa lain-laing POV before nato tanawn ang bigger picture.

ang US manghilabot sa problema sa laing mga nasod, dili tungod kay naa silay deep sympathy anang mga nasora, pero tungod kay naa silay interest nga gipanalipdan anang mga lugara. example mao ang pinas. bisan unsa ka corrupt ang pinoy govt makig ally gihapon ang mga kano sa pinas, mo tabang gihapon sa afp tungod sa strategic location sa pinas (among many other reasons).

naay mga pinoy nga wa malipay sa pag apil2 sa mga kano, pagtabang sa afp. sud sa daghan nang mga decades, sukad pa sa cold war, daghan kaayong mga pinoy nga nag dumot sa mga kano. tungod ni kay ang ilang tanaw sa mga kano maoy dakong babag sa pag realize sa ilang dream state, sa ilang ideology. sayun ra man pag justify ang ilang kalagot, or should i say, sayon ra pag tago sa ilang tinuod nga tumong. ingnun ra nila nga ang amerika imperialista -- tinuod man pud. sa ing-ani nga pama-agi ang attention ma focus sa exploitative tendency sa amerika, dili sa unsay tinuod nga tuyo sa mga kontra sa amerika. kun kining mga tawhana hatagan sa ilang gusto, maoy pakupton sa gobyerno, maka expect lang tag dagkong kausaban: sila na pud ang magpahimos sa gahom, mo bawos sa ilang mga kontra, mag witch hunt. hinumdumi unsay gibuhat sa khmer rouge, naa na kay idea unsay mahitabo.

naa say mga pinoy nga nalipay sa pag apil2 sa mga kano. na man gyuy mga tao nga motila sa lubot sa laing tao in the hope nga mahatagan og pabor.

[people watcher]

i still stand firm on my belief that military institutions are an outmoded institution. but this is not what this thread is about.

simple ra ang pag evolve sa society bai. ang institution ma outmoded na gani, mopadung nag extinction tungod kay mahimo na man nga irrelevant sa kinabuhi sa mga tao. bisan himu-on pa nga accessible, ang mga tao na mismo maoy di intresado.

way available evidence nagpakita nga nahimong irrelevant ang military. gani, in contemporary times, mao ni pinaka active nga industry. billions of dollars are spent every year sa lain-laing mga nasod para pag upgrade sa ilang military tungod kay nakita nila nga necessary ni para pag maintain sa ilang state.

[flanker]

The USA still stands for the kind of freedom and democracy that defines the dreams of the oppressed living in so many other countries.

Hahaha! Democracy like sa Iraq? ...

Operation Iraqi Freedom? or Operation securing oil?..


@Topic

Gamit man sad ang joint military exercise.. both countries maka benefit..

[revolt!]

u.s out of southeast asia!

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

@ FLANKER ....

Have read the news lately ? The one in Iraq whom a suicide bomber blasted the lives of 78 locals and oppressed the lives of hundreds of family members of the casualties ?