How do you obtain Salvation?

[Malic]

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I'll make this simple, the writer of Philipians same as the book of 1 peter, addresses this to the ministry or to the believers (Christians).
Now, if they are called Christians or Believer are they not Saved? of couse some of them are Saved! Because that's the first step of being a Christians.

Now for this verse,
Philippians 2:12
12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

if you're going to read it to the top by it's context, you will understand that this verse was to encourage Christians to live by faith, bearing the fruit of the Spirit (Which is the good work found in the bible).
Because in this way unbelievers will know that they bare the testimony of Jesus Christ. Because they are different, that is why Peter branded the believer "strangers in the world"

What's my basis for this?

Because Paul said in Ephesians 2:8-9 "
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. "
Very Clear that it's only grace through faith!

would this contradict his writings on Philippians 2:12 which talks " work out your salvation"? of course not!. It's to encourage the believers to be Christ-Like in Character.

That's why I wrote this,

Salvation = faith
and this faith is being manifested by the fruit of the Spirit (Good works).

The Basis is this verses:
Ephesians 2:8-10 (New International Version)
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.
10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Salvation first before good works!

Not!

Salvation = faith + Good works

if faith + Good works is Salvation, how do we know that our good works are enough to save us? considering we have faith in God.
What if we stumble, we fall into sin, are we disqualified from our Salvation?

Yes, I agree with you about KJV, it has errors
yes, and they came up with other translation like "NIV", which are based from 1,000 plus references if i'm not mistaken.

About John 20:31, I did'nt say that it has "begotten" words on it?
I only said "But there's a lot of verses that proves that this verse is true?" base from JOhn 3:16

Even how many error, and translations as they say, but my question is this,
Did the message of God was Changed?
The Good news of his Salvation?

The Attackers of the Bible are really busy scrutinizing, every details or words in it, finding fault, forgetting what's really the message of it.

There just busy finding the pieces of the puzzle, but they don't figure what's really all about, what message it brings.

Here is where you falter my friend. You assumed already that when one becomes a christian he is already saved. Well i cant blame you because thats how you were indoctrinated.

but when we study the scripture it doesnt say anything near that.

Yes Philippians was written for the Christians as well as 1 Peter. And the writer was telling them the Christians to work out their salvation.

Where in the book of Philippians can you find that the writer were encouraging the audience to live by faith and to bear the fruit of the spirit in relation to the context of Philippians 2:12? do you know how to get a context sir? basing on what you previously posted i would say that you are unaware of extracting the proper context.

Again you still havent strike out the phrase "work out your salvation with fear and trembling".


on Ephesians 2:8-9...For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

but dont stop here on verse 9 sir continue till verse 10 lets read...

10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.


of course it does contradict when you proceed to verse 10 and quote James where he said Faith w/o work is dead and Philippians' work out your salvation.

no sir you are wrong...Faith+ work= Salvation. Dont assume that you are already save w/o first proving that your faith is a saving faith that requires work according to James and Philippians.

Remember in Matthew Jesus said not all who claim to profess Christ can enter into the kingdom of Heaven. Faith alone is dangerous you must prove it with good works.


let me paste your questions...how do we know that our good works are enough to save us considering we have faith in God.What if we stumble, we fall into sin, are we disqualified from our Salvation?

Thats where the mercy and grace of God comes in. Its not a matter of the quantity of the good works but the sincerity behind your faith and good works w/c leads you to salvation. About disqualification from our salvation...there is a particular doctrine in Christianity that says you can loose your salvation right? this doctrine is in collision with the doctrine of eternal security for a long long time already and till up to now it has been resolve.


Did the message of God was Changed?The Good news of his Salvation? Yes.

take for example John 3:16...the word begotten can change the whole perspective of that particular verse theologically speaking. If you know what i mean. Without the word begotten it can mean that Jesus is not begotten by the Father and if the word begotten is included it can mean that the Father employed human means for the incarnation of Jesus. And it can affect Christology .

The attackers of the bible are really busy? you know what...there are christian scholars who were involved in the study of bible criticism. Some are now in the favor of reforming the old christian beliefs.

You dont just take anything at face value. You must scrutinize it just like the berean church right? Well the message of the bible is very powerful and life changing but some doctrinal issues must be check also to avoid confusion and manipulation by the church.

[Malic]

Nope,
It is inspired by God, compare it to other books, no one dares to prophecy like the bible

2 Timothy 3:16
16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Nope? you dont agree that the bible should not be treated like any other book? im confuse.

in my study i found out that there are inaccuracies in the prophecy. Like the sign of Jonah and the death of Jesus.


ah the famous 2Tim 3:16...Paul wrote this before there was a bible. I wonder w/c scripture did he refer to as inspired.

[sanggano_boy]

Here is where you falter my friend. You assumed already that when one becomes a christian he is already saved. Well i cant blame you because thats how you were indoctrinated.

but when we study the scripture it doesnt say anything near that.

Yes Philippians was written for the Christians as well as 1 Peter. And the writer was telling them the Christians to work out their salvation.

Where in the book of Philippians can you find that the writer were encouraging the audience to live by faith and to bear the fruit of the spirit in relation to the context of Philippians 2:12? do you know how to get a context sir? basing on what you previously posted i would say that you are unaware of extracting the proper context.

Again you still havent strike out the phrase "work out your salvation with fear and trembling".


on Ephesians 2:8-9...For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

but dont stop here on verse 9 sir continue till verse 10 lets read...

10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.


of course it does contradict when you proceed to verse 10 and quote James where he said Faith w/o work is dead and Philippians' work out your salvation.

no sir you are wrong...Faith+ work= Salvation. Dont assume that you are already save w/o first proving that your faith is a saving faith that requires work according to James and Philippians.

Remember in Matthew Jesus said not all who claim to profess Christ can enter into the kingdom of Heaven. Faith alone is dangerous you must prove it with good works.


let me paste your questions...how do we know that our good works are enough to save us considering we have faith in God.What if we stumble, we fall into sin, are we disqualified from our Salvation?

Thats where the mercy and grace of God comes in. Its not a matter of the quantity of the good works but the sincerity behind your faith and good works w/c leads you to salvation. About disqualification from our salvation...there is a particular doctrine in Christianity that says you can loose your salvation right? this doctrine is in collision with the doctrine of eternal security for a long long time already and till up to now it has been resolve.


Did the message of God was Changed?The Good news of his Salvation? Yes.

take for example John 3:16...the word begotten can change the whole perspective of that particular verse theologically speaking. If you know what i mean. Without the word begotten it can mean that Jesus is not begotten by the Father and if the word begotten is included it can mean that the Father employed human means for the incarnation of Jesus. And it can affect Christology .

The attackers of the bible are really busy? you know what...there are christian scholars who were involved in the study of bible criticism. Some are now in the favor of reforming the old christian beliefs.

You dont just take anything at face value. You must scrutinize it just like the berean church right? Well the message of the bible is very powerful and life changing but some doctrinal issues must be check also to avoid confusion and manipulation by the church.

This apparent problem is answered by examining what exactly James is talking about. James is refuting the belief that a person can have faith without producing any good works (James 2:17-1. James is emphasizing the point that genuine faith in Christ will produce a changed life and good works (James 2:20-26). James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but rather that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his life. If a person claims to be a believer, but has no good works in his life – then he likely does not have genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26).
Paul says the same thing in his writings. The good fruit believers should have in their lives is listed in Galatians 5:22-23. Immediately after telling us that we are saved by faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8-9), Paul informs us that we were created to do good works (Ephesians 2:10). Paul expects just as much of a changed life as James does, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come” (2 Corinthians 5:17)! James and Paul do not disagree on their teaching on salvation. They approach the same subject from different perspectives. Paul simply emphasized that justification is by faith alone while James put emphasis on the fact that faith in Christ produces good works.

Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?

Here's a link to help you understand about Philippians 2:12
Working Out Your Salvation--Philippians 2:12

If you will only pick those words to justify your belief, you will missed out the true message of Salvation. We have to read it, and understand it's totality. We only read in our eyes, but a genuine believers are enabled by the power of the Holy Spirit to understand God's word by heart.
John 6:65
He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

Luke 24:44-45
44He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."
45Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.


Even if we phase out John 3:16 in the Bible, and all the "begotten" words in the Bible, still the message of Salvation will not changed. That Jesus Christ died for our sins and was resurrected, and He is the only way to Salvation according to John 14:6

My Personal Question to you is:
Are saved? Is you eternal destiny secured? If so what's your basis?

[regnauld]

My personal basis? You come from GOD and you return to GOD! Simple

[nonoyantoine]

d ba save nmn daan ta?aw kung d gud.. pa good boy ra tah.hehehehe

[pixelwise]

faith alone versus faith + works ... one has to view it from the right perspective. As far as the christian god is concerned, he looks at man's faith (through christ, like a polarized lens of sorts) and for him it's enough to say, "welcome to my heaven my child." ... somewhere in the OT it was said that man's good deeds are but rags (lit. wound bandages) before god. i guess it's in isaiah's book.

the confusion is in the context of man's perspective. man can not see the heart. ako, I can not see sanggano_boys's faith. If i knew him personally i can probably say to myself, "ah luwas siguro ning bataa kay maayo man ug binuhatan" ... but even then i can not be sure, can never be sure. it's between him and god to know.

Cause and effect ni sya. Us humans can only see the effects (deeds) and we use those to try and make sense of the cause (faith). Every believer IS a gospel and the way others can read him is through his deeds. Oh well, I mean c'mon, klaro man sa bible ba nga kung spirtiual salvation ang topic the only requirement is faith. That's how the early christians understood it and they understood it right. Mao bitaw nga sila peter, paul and others inig magpadala ug sermon they always remind them about making their faith work. "Work out YOUR own salvation" dili man "FOR" ... klaro man.

As a christian this is what i believe. I will not shove it down anybody's throat however, because that act, for me, isn't a good deed ... Now as a christian (or not, actually, whenever i think of it in technicalities ) trying and hoping to get out of the box .. hmm it's another story

[flying fish]

pananglitan ug magtinarong lang ko sa akong pagkatawo, meaning: just & fair ko sa ako dealing ako isig katawo; if im a husband/father resonsible ko sa akong expected duties; sa envoronment dili ko pataka ug labay sa mga hugaw, rspnsible sad ko sa akng mga personal na products na gamiton na dili maka daut sa earth; sa laktod nga pagkasulti pinasubay sa pagkamangi-angayon ang akong pagpakabuhi pero nahitabo lang nga i dont belong to a particular religion but practice the essence of evry good relgion, aduna akoy kaluwasan? kung ang akong faith mao kanang pagtoo nga "all good religion are like different water vessel. they may appear different but essentialy they serve the same purpose; to quence the thirsty soul" . malowas ko?

[DeathFox]

pananglitan ug magtinarong lang ko sa akong pagkatawo, meaning: just & fair ko sa ako dealing ako isig katawo; if im a husband/father resonsible ko sa akong expected duties; sa envoronment dili ko pataka ug labay sa mga hugaw, rspnsible sad ko sa akng mga personal na products na gamiton na dili maka daut sa earth; sa laktod nga pagkasulti pinasubay sa pagkamangi-angayon ang akong pagpakabuhi pero nahitabo lang nga i dont belong to a particular religion but practice the essence of evry good relgion, aduna akoy kaluwasan? kung ang akong faith mao kanang pagtoo nga "all good religion are like different water vessel. they may appear different but essentialy they serve the same purpose; to quence the thirsty soul" . malowas ko?

Alangan, don't listen to some christian sect *cough iglesia cough* propaganda na dili ka maluwas if la ka sa ilang religion. La ta kabalo, ng mga ga.sulti ato kay naa run sa impyerno >_>

[flying fish]

Alangan, don't listen to some christian sect *cough iglesia cough* propaganda na dili ka maluwas if la ka sa ilang religion. La ta kabalo, ng mga ga.sulti ato kay naa run sa impyerno >_>

pananglitan bro ug minus ko ug faith whatsoever, let us say busy lang ko ug buhat sa mga butang nga gilalisan sa relihiyon, or simply nagtarong ko w/o didicating to god, dili sad ko atheist pero i just do the right thing to do kay its the right thing to do & not bec. aron malowas ko in the future, ma-apil pa ko sa kaluwasan aning istoryaha?

[pixelwise]

pananglitan ug magtinarong lang ko sa akong pagkatawo, meaning: just & fair ko sa ako dealing ako isig katawo; if im a husband/father resonsible ko sa akong expected duties; sa envoronment dili ko pataka ug labay sa mga hugaw, rspnsible sad ko sa akng mga personal na products na gamiton na dili maka daut sa earth; sa laktod nga pagkasulti pinasubay sa pagkamangi-angayon ang akong pagpakabuhi pero nahitabo lang nga i dont belong to a particular religion but practice the essence of evry good relgion, aduna akoy kaluwasan? kung ang akong faith mao kanang pagtoo nga "all good religion are like different water vessel. they may appear different but essentialy they serve the same purpose; to quence the thirsty soul" . malowas ko?

it is not any man's place to say kinsa'y maluwas, kinsa dili. not even the average religious leader can guarantee his flock's salvation (there are exceptions of course, particularly the neo-messiahs) .. an interesting thought: luwas kaha si soriano? si manalo? si white? si smith? ang mga popes? i wonder how many followers of each ask themselves this question.

sa yong pananaw ang kuru-kuro ko ay ito: you claim you have faith. are you a christian? i surmise not, so don't expect the bible to give you all the answers nor describe your faith to you. the bible has the answer (more like hints and descriptions actually) for billions, but it doesn't have for billions either. if one day however you feel it within you to embrace christianity for some reason or another, then lami hunahunaon that the bible has a spiritual feast ready for you. it is a good book.

these are my views, and vanity or not i make them known sa mupansin lang