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  1. #91

    @superbisdak

    bro..salamat sa imong reply..i do love debating with you kai unlike other theists who tends to resort to "mud slinging" in order to point out facts..anyway i've read your post bro..and there's only one teeny weeny problem about it..i believe sakto ka and i accept that i should recant and repent...BUT in order for me to do this is i have to play in your playground..meaning i have to accept all the rules in it..allow me to elaborate on this by taking your race story as an example....

    indeed mureklamo jd ko nga nganong nkadaug to sya sa race..and you said that there's this law governing the proper way to achieve salvation and stuff..BUT the problem lang bro is this...i don't adhere to such rules or anything..i am an atheist i don't believe in any god..and therefore i don't recognize any rules, situations or circumstances that concerns with a divine being...first off i don't believe in everlasting life..i only believe that the goodness of men can only be quantified and measured by the acts of goodness that they themselves do in order to back up their claim that they are good..other than that i don't believe it..so that's why kini atong gamai nga sturya dli mulungtad..kai i can't accept these rules of yours..you may call me arrogant or anything..i don't take offense in it kai basically i am arrogant and heretical in your standards because you adhere to roman catholic or any religious laws or standards..but in my opinion i am not being arrogant i just presented stuff in your book that's..in my opinion conflicting...

    Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    the people nga gi focus ani na passage are either idiots or *****s...why?..simple nganong mangayo man silag everlasting life if they don't believe in god..cguro these people are theists pero ilaha lang gi deny ang ginoo but still theists..if you're talking about atheists...then that's another story..how can an atheist ask for an everlasting life?..atheists don't believe in god..AND any rules or situations that has G-O-D written on it..so this focuses only on theists nga maldito..ug hypcrite..

    Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

    this passage..has confirmed my thoughts..so you mean to say bro..every good and every positive actions that we had done we're nothing more than dusts in the wind? if we don't believe in god?..hmmm no wonder it was so easy to kill muslims and kill unbelievers during the Crusades and the Inquisition..i just can't accept this bro..so you mean to say that ANY organization that HELPS poverty, hunger and other negative stuff is INVALID if all the members and organizers don't believe in god?..what if these people aren't out to impress god?..but rather they just want to help people is that soo very wrong??..and you say that i only focus on acts..ang2x that's the only thing that can generate changes in our world bro gd..believing in god doesn't help alleviate poverty or hunger...doing good whether you're a christian or not DO CHANGES things but they are all human acts..AND they DO GENERATE CHANGES...i just don't see the wisdom bro..we have been praying to stop hunger and poverty BUT it doesn't do a bit to alleviate hunger or poverty unless PEOPLE ACT into it..so how can you say that human acts are irrellevant?

    1 Samuel 16:7a ...for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

    dli ko mutuo ani bro...not unless if i add ni nga line sa last part sa passage...."..and if man beliveth in god." KAI...walai bili imong goodness if dli ka mutuo nya and the goodness of your heart won't matter if you don't believe in god...and this passage confirms it..

    Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

    kung ikaw kaha example, nag-apil kag marathon. Unya nagsubay ka sa tanang rules, regulations ug mga requirements. unya dunay usa pod ka runner nga wala nag comply, butang nato, instead nga mosubay sya sa gikatakda nga track nagshortcut hinoon siya. Ug tapos sa maong contest, butang lang nato, nakauna lang siya ug pipila ka tikang sa finish line. ang pangutana karon, fair kaha alang nimo kung siya maoy paga-ilhon nga mananaug?

    Dinhi sab sa kalibutan, samtang buhi pa ang mga tawo naghikyad ang Ginoo sa mga lagda bahin sa kaluwasan sa kalag sa tawo. Kung tinguha nato nga makabaton sa pahalipay nan mosubay gyud kita sa mga lagda nga gipahimutang nang daan.

    sakto ni bro..sakto kaayo pero it only caters to theists like you..i don't adhere to any rule that has god in it..thus i don't believe in an everlasting life either.

    all in all the most basic ingredient..in my opinion...to be able to do a valid good is that i should adhere to christianism..and also to repent and magpakumbaba and to do this..i have to believe in god..right?..bro wla man tai padulngan bro..i can't play in your playground and you can't play in mine..you can't impose laws that i don't acknowledge..so does you..but it's an honor to have had this debate...pirmaninteha na imong approach to atheists like me..and not like others who tend to resort to "mud slinging"

  2. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Bisdak View Post
    kung mao na bro. unsa may imong ikasulti sa gibuhat ni Hitler sa paghunos sa kinabuhi sa 6M Jews? Kay alang ni Hitler insakto siya sa iyang gibuhat. maconsider ba to nimo nga morally right?

    salamat.
    bro i'd also ask you the same thing about the CRUSADES ug ang INQUISTION...they were all thought by the Holy Roman Empire to be righteous..even the pope didn't have any qualms about it.

  3. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by tarpolano View Post
    Of course that was morally wrong. Since we are talking about the 6M Jews that were killed by a belief of a single man. Where was God during that time? If he had existed why did he let that happen?
    During the CRUSADES and the INQUISITION..god WAS the cause...then why did he allow it to happen?..hehe!

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by munzter666 View Post
    er, nobody is in the position to say he/she is living a meaningless life. i mean who, the F are you to say so?

    the most abused word...god. people, instead of saying I DONT KNOW, insists with, god.



    i disagree. its not the HEART. its the MIND/BRAIN. the heart is a muscular organ that pumps blood throughout the body.hehe

    seriously, thats what most people do. a form of escapism...a sort of wishful thinking, hopes and dreams. to a fantasy happy place, not like right here, right now thing.

    and with man's discontent, they look to the heavens and came up with god/s. same story, still happening.
    okay, I will use "I DONT KNOW" why a lot of people (famous people) who has almost everything they have and yet ended up their life. Is it loneliness, emptiness, unsatisfied with life? It's just I don't know!

    They say you can be happy if you want to be happy?
    Or If you can have everything?
    Or There's a hollow in us that needs to filled up? for us to have a joyful life?

    I don't know, maybe you know?

  5. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by tarpolano View Post
    Of course that was morally wrong. Since we are talking about the 6M Jews that were killed by a belief of a single man. Where was God during that time? If he had existed why did he let that happen?
    I don't think we can blame God for that bro. Man did that to his fellow man.

  6. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramini View Post
    bro i'd also ask you the same thing about the CRUSADES ug ang INQUISTION...they were all thought by the Holy Roman Empire to be righteous..even the pope didn't have any qualms about it.
    During the CRUSADES and the INQUISITION..god WAS the cause...then why did he allow it to happen?..hehe!
    The crimes during the Crusades and the Inquisition were obviously un-Christian acts. Yes, they were perpetrated by religious people who considered themselves Christians, but what they did were obviously un-Christian, for Christianity essentially teaches love of God and neighbor.

    Christianity does not perpetrate violence. Jesus himself was a victim of injustice and violence.

  7. #97
    I still think it's true that inside the human heart is a "God-shaped vacuum." It seems that nothing in this world can really fill this vacuum, neither material riches nor fame, respect, knowledge, etc. It seems this vacuum is just too "big" for anything material or "worldly."

  8. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditz View Post
    The crimes during the Crusades and the Inquisition were obviously un-Christian acts. Yes, they were perpetrated by religious people who considered themselves Christians, but what they did were obviously un-Christian, for Christianity essentially teaches love of God and neighbor.

    Christianity does not perpetrate violence. Jesus himself was a victim of injustice and violence.
    yes i do believe that these acts are un-christian..and undeniably christianity teaches love of god and neighbor..THE question is this...how in the world did these religious people who were indoctrinated by these teachings of love and loving thy neigbor has committed such violent acts?..and to think that these people weren't just ordinary folks who just swallowed their faith whole without question...BUT learned men of the faith..who has all the access in all the word of god who themeselves considered to be the bastion of christian morality..has allowed an onslaught to happen?..mas arang2x ang muslims kai they have their jihad..and is clear in dealing with infidels and unbelievers..

  9. #99
    ^ "How" is a difficult question to answer. Whatever drove those men to commit those atrocities, we may never know. Those were horrible acts indeed and they ought rightly to be condemned and never forgotten.

    But the Christian message remains valid. Those acts speak only of the misuse of religion and do not argue against the faith itself, in the same way that the monstrosities of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and other tyrants who considered themselves atheists were extreme examples of the misuse of the secular ideals of Communism, the nation-state, freedom and justice.

    If we want to hold Christianity responsible for those crimes, we might as well hold atheism responsible for those crimes which are far greater in magnitude than the Crusades or the Inquisition put together.

  10. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditz View Post
    ^ "How" is a difficult question to answer. Whatever drove those men to commit those atrocities, we may never know. Those were horrible acts indeed and they ought rightly to be condemned and never forgotten.

    But the Christian message remains valid. Those acts speak only of the misuse of religion and do not argue against the faith itself, in the same way that the monstrosities of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and other tyrants who considered themselves atheists were extreme examples of the misuse of the secular ideals of Communism, the nation-state, freedom and justice.

    If we want to hold Christianity responsible for those crimes, we might as well hold atheism responsible for those crimes which are far greater in magnitude than the Crusades or the Inquisition put together.
    whoa whoa whoa....if you read carefully in hitler's own speeches..he was never an atheist...he was a christian..actually he never confirmed whether he's a sincere christian or athiest...please don't argue with me about hitler's religious alignment..he was..if not a catholic but a theist...why he always refer to god as his sole commander in delivering the german nation out of shame and from the clutches of bolshevism and jewry..and when he was attempted to be assasinated he CLEARLY states that divine providence has helped him to live...please that's a common mistake...even though hitler killed millions HE WASN'T AN ATHEIST...his killing the jews was never rooted on religion but rather of race and racial superiority...he firmly believed that his crusade was blessed by god...please look it up para dli ka ma mislead...if you think atheism is a violent ideal then you are wrong my friend.

    in my last post i am not implying that we should blame christianity..when in truth it teaches love and stuff but instead we should look up on HOW this doctrines ARE TAUGHT to the people since they still commited horrifying acts...please don't ever assume that atheism is a warlike ideal..even though communism or any other form of fascist government who does assume the stance of atheism means that they are bad or capable of killing...atheism can also thrive in non-violent form of governance..problema gani dinha is nganong gbuhat ghapon...how did cruelty, injustice and violence thrive in a religion that is founded by love and hope..perhaps it may not be the teaching but the people who received the teaching and one last thing how can you say so confidently that hitler's killings were more than the killings done by the CRUSADES and INQUISITION...please huna2x pila ka years ang WWII?..started in '39 ended in '45 so 6 years?...and since modern times naman na..well documented ang patay...pero huna2x wat year ang crusades and pila ka years ang span ana..and of course pila kabuok crusades ang gbuhat?...and most of the deaths are undocumented wla pa nai labot sa inquisition....so kinsa mas daghang napatay?...si hitler or ang christian empire and the muslim empire?..don't create such sweeping statements bro..unless imong giihap mismo ang patay sa crusades

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