Symposium about Islam

[tribu]

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@tribu: i'm hoping malic's side would consider our ignorance kai lain pud bunalan nimo ang ihas. wala pa gani nakabalo imo na birahan.

Regarding the pedophilia, bai, I cannot answer that. Tan-awa sa natgeo bai kanang TABOO series nila. If you think that's bad there are far worse things than that. Mga african tribes mga kuyaw man gani sila ug mga customs. Imagine what we, filipinos, looked like to foreigners.

You hear our faith say "It is our way, do not question it." So goes the same for cultures outside our own. They will give you that same answer. Mao na nakapait sa tao bai. There's basically no "wrong" for us. Basta naka define na sa atong grupo what is considered wrong to us is correct in another.

Mao bitaw na sulti ni shark bai: "Truth is relative"

but are we not talking about a merciful good allah who can change the previous revelations. so was allah's revelations and commands for the better or for worse? in christianity, the violent practices of the jews were being abrogated in favor of a more tolerant, loving and peaceful actions for christians to follow.

ingon pa sa usa ka post diri.

ang sa christiano nagkadugay nagkamaayo (from old testament changed into new) apan sa islam nagkadugay nagkabuang naman hinuon kay gi-abrogate man nuon ang previous na peaceful verses and changed into a more violent one.

mao na ang makita nimo sa video mismo. eli soriano was only voicing his firm belief in his god and the muslims reacted with violence. so the muslims have only proven eli soriano to be correct when he said that muslims are violent because that's what they were taught to do by their religion while christianity teaches love and tolerance. so if we are to examine christianity's sacred book (new testament), we can't find much fault even if we would try to destroy the religion by citing the violent/evil acts of its adherents. but in the case of islam, it's very different because i was trying to see if there are any verses that could tell me that those violent muslims were just heretics. but to my horror, i saw verses upon verses of violent words and actions in the quran and hadith. acts of terror and intolerance. plus the actions of muslims we see in those videos and in real life situations around the world. i was horrified that i had been fooled into believing that islam is a religion of peace.

that is why it was a blessing that i found an online quran and hadith. it opened my eyes.

[tokidoki_v2.0]

you're asking a skeptic bai. when I see a video my mind defaults to "edited". i didn't watch the videos bai. many claim these to be doctored videos of bro. eli. unless someone releases a objective documentation for both sides. besides, most of us know eli not only badmouths muslims but inc and catholics as well. so it's hard to take him, a troublemaker, seriously.

[v2s13]

@tribu: bro dili man tanan muslim dautan bsin. Ang mga uneducated muslims man ang mga violente au na mga tao. Mura ra gud ug mga uneducated christians, mang hold-up, snatch nya mo patay sad. kng mga uneducated na tao pareha ra dautan na mabuhat pero ang nka lahi di lang mag suicide ang christians

ato government, abu sayaf ug MILF kauban rana. Kta ra gi ilad ana nila. daghan mga matay na army ug civilians pero wa jd tai makitan leader na mamatay. War is money bya. Kng wlay gubat wai baligyaan ug bala ug pusil a2 government.

[tribu]

you're asking a skeptic bai. when I see a video my mind defaults to "edited". i didn't watch the videos bai. many claim these to be doctored videos of bro. eli. unless someone releases a objective documentation for both sides. besides, most of us know eli not only badmouths muslims but inc and catholics as well. so it's hard to take him, a troublemaker, seriously.

whether the video of bro eli was doctored or not. whether he badmouthed islam, the point was: how did the muslims react to the "edited" video of bro eli. that was the point. whether it was doctored or not. do we have to be violent? of course, islam says "we should respond with violence because our religion taught us the principle of 'an eye for an eye." unlike christianity that says "if someone throws stone at you, you must give them bread instead." in facts, that was how one muslim congressman reacted when asked whether the violent act of one congresswomen was justified. he said it very clearly that islam permit even more severe punishment for the one who serve a muslim pork.

sure there are muslims who are not violent but why are there muslims who are violent? is it the teaching of islam to be violent? those were the first questions that lead me to examine the quran and the hadith. and verses upon verses of violent words and actions lead me to conclude that islam, if we are to be honest, is not a religion of tolerance and peace. those who are tolerant and peaceful are heretics.

[tokidoki_v2.0]

ilaha pud na beliefs bai. if one side attacks the other retaliates. The basic act alone is merely just to defend. my memory may be half-baked but afaik their history of violence is more on defense and not offense. I can't remember if it's in their practice (malic please provide inputs) to invade others or defend themselves. basta remember the greatest violent act that christianity did were the crusades. this was the event that lead me to abandon my faith forever. I can understand genghis khan's motive was just greed but to massacre in the name of God? It's disgusting to imagine!

what i found so amusing was that lionheart never actually defeated the muslims (moors). history would then write muslims off as bloodthirsty heretics (mangdaut nalang kai wala man kalupig - quite expected, of course).

if you don't get my point about this, bai. I would give you a non-religious inclined example. I personally defend my home. If naai kawatan mosulod sa amoa bai di ko magduhaduha ug luba ana niya (kapoy na explain sa judge pagpapriso niya). Does that make me a violent person? The person invaded my house threatened our safety.

To the eyes of my family and other homeowners I was defending my house (an analogy for a muslim). I'd probably be a hero. What do you think I look like to the criminal's family (an analogy for the rest of us)? Diba deny gyud sila na kawatan ila anak? And I'm thinking, right, your son just happen to have got lost inside my house and the front door suddenly picked it's own lock by itself. But one thing's for sure, I didn't break into THEIR house.

But that's just my perception of Islam. Was there anything sa Quran that has anything like "go out and hunt down everyone else and kill them"?

Maskin tan-awn pa nimo ang ang bible bai it tells u to defend your faith. It has nothing in there that says you hunt down non-believers and kill them all (except accounts of what the followers did, but that wasn't a command). Kai ang ginoo ra daw bahala nila. Diba? I'm sure ing-ana pud ang quran.

So what to do? If one side does indeed promote violence, the most you can do on your end is defend it. Of course, it's up to you to live in fear or not. Mosu'ung ba ka didto sa pikas kai tungod violent sila? Then how would you be any different?

[tribu]

ilaha pud na beliefs bai. if one side attacks the other retaliates. The basic act alone is merely just to defend. my memory may be half-baked but afaik their history of violence is more on defense and not offense. I can't remember if it's in their practice (malic please provide inputs) to invade others or defend themselves. basta remember the greatest violent act that christianity did were the crusades. this was the event that lead me to abandon my faith forever. I can understand genghis khan's motive was just greed but to massacre in the name of God? It's disgusting to imagine!

what i found so amusing was that lionheart never actually defeated the muslims (moors). history would then write muslims off as bloodthirsty heretics (mangdaut nalang kai wala man kalupig - quite expected, of course).

if you don't get my point about this, bai. I would give you a non-religious inclined example. I personally defend my home. If naai kawatan mosulod sa amoa bai di ko magduhaduha ug luba ana niya (kapoy na explain sa judge pagpapriso niya). Does that make me a violent person? The person invaded my house threatened our safety.

To the eyes of my family and other homeowners I was defending my house (an analogy for a muslim). I'd probably be a hero. What do you think I look like to the criminal's family (an analogy for the rest of us)? Diba deny gyud sila na kawatan ila anak? And I'm thinking, right, your son just happen to have got lost inside my house and the front door suddenly picked it's own lock by itself. But one thing's for sure, I didn't break into THEIR house.

But that's just my perception of Islam. Was there anything sa Quran that has anything like "go out and hunt down everyone else and kill them"?

Maskin tan-awn pa nimo ang ang bible bai it tells u to defend your faith. It has nothing in there that says you hunt down non-believers and kill them all (except accounts of what the followers did, but that wasn't a command). Kai ang ginoo ra daw bahala nila. Diba? I'm sure ing-ana pud ang quran.

So what to do? If one side does indeed promote violence, the most you can do on your end is defend it. Of course, it's up to you to live in fear or not. Mosu'ung ba ka didto sa pikas kai tungod violent sila? Then how would you be any different?

it is good that you mentioned this propaganda that muhamad only defended himself.

if you read the hadith you would know that many times muhamad attacked without provocations at times he will threaten people to join them or else...

well, you know that at present his tactics are still being followed by many muslims in muslim countries.

Lessons from the Prophet of Peace When He Attacked Bani - Almustaliq :: Faith Freedom International :: Only Truth can set us free!

read other related articles and you will see many more verses that proves to you that many times muhamad attacks without provocation, at times he love sto make simple quarrels into something so violent. in other words, islam is violent. that's a simple fact. you yourself had already admitted it that it's their belief that allah encourages violence.

so will you still call islam a "religion of peace"? now you know that even I was fooled into believeing that islam is a peaceful religion.

http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/200...le_snakes.html

kung naa bay musulod sa inyo balay pananglitan usa ka bata, imo ba dayon patyon? asa naman katong giingon na merciful kuno ang ila diyos? ka kinsa diyos ang mas merciful? ang sa mga christiano o sa mga muslim?

[Gwynhuever]

@malic...familiar ka sa sufism? nahan ko maka learn some more about this sect sa islam kay i like the works of Rumi....naa ka ma recommend nga sites?

para nako so far ako di nahan ang wahabi nga sect kay morag maoy maka breed sa extremists....

[Malic]

@malic: Bro unsa na nga muslim ang mga suicide bombers? dba daghan man clasi2x muslim sad. Gi brainwash na sila or for Jihad jd na ila gi buhat. And unsa sad na nga muslim kana mga maldito dri sa pinas? kana mangidnap ug mang bomba mostly sa mindanao.

tokidoki_v2.0 already gave you the answer. Well said tokidoki and tnx again.

[Malic]

@malic...familiar ka sa sufism? nahan ko maka learn some more about this sect sa islam kay i like the works of Rumi....naa ka ma recommend nga sites?

para nako so far ako di nahan ang wahabi nga sect kay morag maoy maka breed sa extremists....

kadungog ko ana nila but dili ko familiar sa mga details sa ilang faith and practices. Sorry wala koy ma recommend nimo nga site.

ang wahabi stricto, sa akong opinyon naa ra jud na sa mga scholars nga mo interpret ug osa ka quranic verses nya kung unsaon niya pag hatag ug fatwa based sa mga verses. Naa man pod laing klase nga extremists,katong nigawas na jud sa mga principles sa quran.


Pero padayun mam,if you like sufism so be it,continue...Insha Allah you'll find a way and declare "la ila ha ilallah, Muhammadan rasul'lah".

[Malic]

hmmm since tribu did not accept my offer for a live debate cge diri ta mag discuss,pero hangyo nako nimo,sir tribu nga dont twist this into a persnal word war,ok.


but let me answer tokidki first...naa koy idea kung unsa hitsura ni Prophet muhammad(pbuh) pero i'll ask my friends so i can give you a better picture.

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let me first say this one...when a christian commits a crime like,raping,we dont as civilize people,indict the whole religion for the act of few violators who appeared to be a member of that community.

Same principle also goes to Islam,when a muslim commits a crime,we dont say,that islam is about terrorism and oppression.

About the Quran and Hadiths...There are verses that appears to be suggesting violence and oppression and some other things negative to the eyes and ears of other people but failure to understand its context and its background story and culture would lead us to a very unfair treatment and interpretation of the verses.

Context is everything and proper exegesis is so important if one wish to arrive to a better understanding of a certain subject.

let's take the accusation of violence in islam. It is unfair to project verses and hadiths that suggest violence and not open the other pages of the Qur'an and hadiths that suggest peace and freedom. Its also wrong to google around and accept the misrepresentations and one sided treatment of some people and accept it w/o any personal evaluation.

I think that it is wise to really ask yourself this question...what do i really know about Islam? Not what some anti-islamic sites said, not what Hollywood said, not what the media said. You owe it to yourself to ask the question "what i really know about islam?" and honestly evaluate yourself,IF you are just taking what other people said then better ask yourself this question, what IF those people were wrong?

Thats why i would suggest if you are so fond of googling things around then why not start typing in there words like "what is real Islam?" hit it then study its content. And much better visit any mosques or islamic centers and ask them to give you a lecture about islam. You dont have to agree to what it says but you have to hear both sides.Thats what Mahatma Ghandi and some great thinkers and biographers did before they gave their OWN evaluation about islam. Why cant you?