Tinuod ba may porgatoryo?

[Tobi]

---

asa imong proof nga dili na part sa original scriptures?

basaha ni oh...

Deuterocanonical books" is a term used since the sixteenth century in the Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Christianity to describe certain books and passages of the Christian Old Testament that are not part of the Jewish Bible. The term is used in contrast to the "protocanonical books", which are contained in the Hebrew Bible. This distinction had previously contributed to debate in the early church about whether they should be read in the churches and thus be classified as canonical texts.

Deuterocanonical books - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

dili diay part sa Jewish bible nang Deuterocanonical noh?tsk tsk tsk!

[xiao-xiao]

@Tobi: ahh... mao ba? aw cge..
but why did the Jewish people pray for the sins of the dead?

[Tobi]

The Greek word used for fire is "pursw" (puroo) of which "pur" is the root word for Purgatory.

G4442
πῦρ
pur
poor
A primary word; “fire” (literally or figuratively, specifically lightning): - fiery, fire.

so kanang purgatory, kalayo diay na? impyerno diay nang purgatory noh? kuyawa diay ana noh? so kung mamatay diay ka isugnod diay ka sa kalayo para ma cleansing ka?

ang fire kay pagsuway sa umaabot? hmmm..

These verses say that man will be purified by fire and then will be saved to enter Heaven..

Hebrews 12:29
29for indeed our God is a consuming fire.

niingon ba gud ko uroy nga ang fire pagsuway sa umaabot...tsk tsk tsk! tarunga gud ug basa nang akong gipost...

ang akong giingon:

ang kanang "fire" nga buot ipasabot diha, mga pagsuway intawn na nga muabot sa usa ka Cristiano. kay ang usa ka Cristiano gud, mura na siyag bulawan nga gisunog sa kalayo.

Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

pagsuway nga muabot dili kay "pagsuway sa umaabot"...layo ra kaayo na bai...

ang usa ka Cristiano gud, naa gyud nay mga pagsuway nga muabot sa iyang kinabuhi...binisay on nako ang verse ha para makasabot ka...

1Pe 4:12 Mga hinigugma, dili kamo mahibulong sa pagsulay nga ingon sa kalayo sa taliwala ninyo, nga mahatabo aron sa pagsulay kaninyo, ingon nga daw butang nga katingalahan ang mahitabo kaninyo.

naa gyud diay mga pagsuway noh?

Hebrews 9:27
27And just as it is appointed for mortals to die once, and after that the judgement,

1 Cor 3:8
8The one who plants and the one who waters have a common purpose, and each will receive wages according to the labour of each.

ang tao nga mangamatay before sa general judgement day kay hukman gihapon diha2x.

naay simple logic Tobi ay..

kada tapos buwan kada usa nato mak dawat gyud ug sweldo whether kinuhaan sa absent or napu-an sa overtime. pero generally kada tapos sa tuig makadawat gyud ta ug bonus/13th month..

sa imong gihatag nga verse wala man ko makabasa diha ug "particular judgement" ug "general judgement"...imo imo raman siguro na bai...

hala ka diha.. nag eskwela ka ug bible school Tobi? wala mo tudlu-e nga sa O.T. times before sa ressurection ni Cristo kay closed pa ang heaven? si Crsito ang nakapa abli ug usab Tobi oi alang ug para kanato..

unsa man nga verse nga sarado ang heaven sa una?pakit a kog verse para mutuo ko nimo...

hehe.. kadto nga time ba Tobi sa pagkamatay nila ug gikuha sila sa Ginoo, asa man sila gibutang sa Ginoo nga wala pamay tao maka sulod sa langit ato nga time?

ang tubag sa imong pangutana naa rapud sa imong pangutana...gikuha sa Ginoo...hahahahaha!

Job 12:10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.

"And who shall be able to think of the day of His coming? And who shall stand to see Him? For HE IS LIKE A REFINING FIRE, and like the fuller's herb; AND HE SHALL SIT REFINING AND CLEANSING THE SILVER. AND HE SHALL PURIFY THE SONS OF LEVI, AND SHALL REFINE THEM AS GOLD, AND AS SILVER, and they shall offer sacrifices to the Lord in justice."
Malachi 3:2-3

Hebrews 12:29
29for indeed our God is a consuming fire.

sa imong gihatag nga verse wala gihapon koy nabasahan nga naay cleansing inig kamatay nimo...asa man diha? wala man...imo imo raman na...

[xiao-xiao]

@Tobi: Although Maccabees is not part of the bible... you can't deny the fact that the Jewish people pray for the dead...

[Tobi]

@Tobi: ahh... mao ba? aw cge..
but why did the Jewish people pray for the sins of the dead?

wala man koy nabasa sa original scriptures nga ampuan sa mga Judio ang sala sa mga patay...unsa na siya nga verse sa original scripture? kay kung ang atong basehan kanang imong gihatag nga verse, dili mana katuuhan kay wala mana siya maapil sa original...

[botslob]

Mga Bradix, maayo kaayo pagka explain sa Catholic encyclopedia ang purgatory. Ang ubang mga ponto dia ra dire CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Purgatory

Temporal punishment

That temporal punishment is due to sin, even after the sin itself has been pardoned by God, is clearly the teaching of Scripture. God indeed brought man out of his first disobedience and gave him power to govern all things (Wisdom 10:2), but still condemned him "to eat his bread in the sweat of his brow" until he returned unto dust. God forgave the incredulity of Moses and Aaron, but in punishment kept them from the "land of promise" (Numbers 20:12). The Lord took away the sin of David, but the life of the child was forfeited because David had made God's enemies blaspheme His Holy Name (2 Samuel 12:13-14). In the New Testament as well as in the Old, almsgiving and fasting, and in general penitential acts are the real fruits of repentance (Matthew 3:8; Luke 17:3; 3:3). The whole penitential system of the Church testifies that the voluntary assumption of penitential works has always been part of true repentance and the Council of Trent (Sess. XIV, can. xi) reminds the faithful that God does not always remit the whole punishment due to sin together with the guilt. God requires satisfaction, and will punish sin, and this doctrine involves as its necessary consequence a belief that the sinner failing to do penance in this life may be punished in another world, and so not be cast off eternally from God.
Venial sins

All sins are not equal before God, nor dare anyone assert that the daily faults of human frailty will be punished with the same severity that is meted out to serious violation of God's law. On the other hand whosoever comes into God's presence must be perfectly pure for in the strictest sense His "eyes are too pure, to behold evil" (Habakkuk 1:13). For unrepented venial faults for the payment of temporal punishment due to sin at time of death, the Church has always taught the doctrine of purgatory.

So deep was this belief ingrained in our common humanity that it was accepted by the Jews, and in at least a shadowy way by the pagans, long before the coming of Christianity. ("Aeneid," VI, 735 sq.; Sophocles, "Antigone," 450 sq.).

[necrotic freak]

G4442
πῦρ
pur
poor
A primary word; “fire” (literally or figuratively, specifically lightning): - fiery, fire.

so kanang purgatory, kalayo diay na? impyerno diay nang purgatory noh? kuyawa diay ana noh? so kung mamatay diay ka isugnod diay ka sa kalayo para ma cleansing ka?..

naunsa man pod ka nga english dictionary man nuon nagkuha ug meaning..hehehe..

akong gi ingon, The Greek word used for fire is "pursw" (puroo) of which "pur" is the root word for Purgatory.

GREEK word dong tobi.

tinuod na isugnod ka sa purifying fire.. mao nay temporary agony.. kalayo sa Ginoo, dili kalayo sa empyerno. kay sa empyerno wala na jud kay kaluwasan didto.

niingon ba gud ko uroy nga ang fire pagsuway sa umaabot...tsk tsk tsk! tarunga gud ug basa nang akong gipost...

ang akong giingon:



pagsuway nga muabot dili kay "pagsuway sa umaabot"...layo ra kaayo na bai...

ang usa ka Cristiano gud, naa gyud nay mga pagsuway nga muabot sa iyang kinabuhi...binisay on nako ang verse ha para makasabot ka...

1Pe 4:12 Mga hinigugma, dili kamo mahibulong sa pagsulay nga ingon sa kalayo sa taliwala ninyo, nga mahatabo aron sa pagsulay kaninyo, ingon nga daw butang nga katingalahan ang mahitabo kaninyo.

naa gyud diay mga pagsuway noh?..

naa ba diay ko gi-ingon nga walay pag suway? kaklaro ana kitang christiano naay mga pagsuway sa umaabot sama sa mga apostolis nga na martyr tungod sa pagsulay nga nahitabo kanila. pero timani tobi nga ang pagsuway mahitabo sa buhi pa ang tao.. inigkamatay nimo wala na intawn pagsulay oi. husdahan na dayon ka sa Ginoo basi sa pagsulay nga iyang gihatag sa buhi paka.

sa imong gihatag nga verse wala man ko makabasa diha ug "particular judgement" ug "general judgement"...imo imo raman siguro na bai....

ayaw pangita ug words nga particular o general tobi. kundi sabta ang message nga ang gipasabot particular. paila lang jud mo unsa mo ka literal sa biblia.

unsa man nga verse nga sarado ang heaven sa una?pakit a kog verse para mutuo ko nimo....

After Adam's sin, the gates of Heaven were closed, and no one was allowed to enter.

John 3:13
13No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

until Jesus Christ redeemed the human race and opened the gates once again.

ang tubag sa imong pangutana naa rapud sa imong pangutana...gikuha sa Ginoo...hahahahaha!

Job 12:10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.

gikuha lagi sa Ginoo pero dili man pod lagi pwde maka sulod ang tao ato nga time kay sirado pa. wa gihapon ka naka kuha? so posible jud naa sila sa laing lugar gawas sa heaven ug hell.

sa imong gihatag nga verse wala gihapon koy nabasahan nga naay cleansing inig kamatay nimo...asa man diha? wala man...imo imo raman na...

ayaw lagi ntawn pangita ug word4word oi tobi... sabta unsa buot ipa ibot. dili inyong bantayan ang word nga mapatik. wisdom ra sa holy spirit kuwang nimo tobi....

[Tobi]

Mga Bradix, maayo kaayo pagka explain sa Catholic encyclopedia ang purgatory. Ang ubang mga ponto dia ra dire CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Purgatory

Temporal punishment

That temporal punishment is due to sin, even after the sin itself has been pardoned by God, is clearly the teaching of Scripture. God indeed brought man out of his first disobedience and gave him power to govern all things (Wisdom 10:2), but still condemned him "to eat his bread in the sweat of his brow" until he returned unto dust. God forgave the incredulity of Moses and Aaron, but in punishment kept them from the "land of promise" (Numbers 20:12). The Lord took away the sin of David, but the life of the child was forfeited because David had made God's enemies blaspheme His Holy Name (2 Samuel 12:13-14). In the New Testament as well as in the Old, almsgiving and fasting, and in general penitential acts are the real fruits of repentance (Matthew 3:8; Luke 17:3; 3:3). The whole penitential system of the Church testifies that the voluntary assumption of penitential works has always been part of true repentance and the Council of Trent (Sess. XIV, can. xi) reminds the faithful that God does not always remit the whole punishment due to sin together with the guilt. God requires satisfaction, and will punish sin, and this doctrine involves as its necessary consequence a belief that the sinner failing to do penance in this life may be punished in another world, and so not be cast off eternally from God.
Venial sins

All sins are not equal before God, nor dare anyone assert that the daily faults of human frailty will be punished with the same severity that is meted out to serious violation of God's law. On the other hand whosoever comes into God's presence must be perfectly pure for in the strictest sense His "eyes are too pure, to behold evil" (Habakkuk 1:13). For unrepented venial faults for the payment of temporal punishment due to sin at time of death, the Church has always taught the doctrine of purgatory.

So deep was this belief ingrained in our common humanity that it was accepted by the Jews, and in at least a shadowy way by the pagans, long before the coming of Christianity. ("Aeneid," VI, 735 sq.; Sophocles, "Antigone," 450 sq.).

doctrine raman diay na sa inyong church dili man diay doctrine sa bible...

[botslob]

doctrine raman diay na sa inyong church dili man diay doctrine sa bible...

hihihi...wa man diay kay simbahan... di man diay ka gani mosimba hihihih nagpatuga tuga kaman lang og kotlo og bibliya nga ikaw ikaw ra! hihihi pagchur oi. pangita sag simbahan bradix una ka manaway

[kenjoenue]

kung Bible ang basehan...there is no such word purgatory...