Salvation

[akosabni]

---

@bahiista

thanks for your explanation, but i'm not quite convince, can you explain, why god gave us something like free will that could make us go against him; and has a potential to damage us. if your answer is because he loves us, then love must be craze

@Mr.Ho_chai

this statement keep me thinking ... GOD allows it but approving it is entirely a different story ... thanks

i just hope god will use all his power to make our will his will

[tripwire]

Blood its just a symbol. We can use perfume if you want, or water diba.. Its just a symbol plain and simple. reason2believe is there a book that you can give us as compact and informative as a Bible. And if you're mixing Religion and science. You are trying to mix water with oil then. Have you seen a monkey became man? thats theory. Where as the Bible is a written History.

The old testament makes it "special". Remember the painting of blood at the door so that one of the plagues will not get in to the house? That blood comes from an animal, a sheep to be exact. The river that turned into blood when mosses dips hips staff? Those were not sysmbols! When Abraham is tested by his faith to God by sacrificing his son and when he passed, there's a lamb near by to continue the ritual.

I think I get Reason2believe's point. "Seems to me that Blood is what really satisfy this God". Have you all heard/read the term, "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"? From the Code of Hammurabi. Hammurabi was King of Babylon, 1792-1750BC. The code survives today in the Akkadian language. Used in the Bible, Matthew 5:38 - meaning, the notion that for every wrong done there should be a compensating measure of justice.

Several passages also read:

Exodus 21:24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Leviticus 24:20 fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him.

Deuteronomy 19:21 "Thus you shall not show pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

[Reason2believe]

bro, maayong adlaw! tuguti ko pagtubag sa imong pangutana.

Kung mohisgot kita ug dugo bro nagsimbolo kini sa kinabuhi. Giplano naning daan sa Ginoo nga ang makahugas sa kasaal-anan mao ang dugo, sa Hebrews 10:1-4 gihisgutan kini.

Ato usab nga masayran nga ang bayad sa sala mao ang kamatayon, giingon kini sa Romans 6:23.

Mangutana siguro kita, nganung ingon ana man ang paagi sa Ginoo?

Ang tubag, tungod sa iyang GUGMA, John 3:16.

Pinaagi niini nga sistema gipakita o gipadayag sa Ginoo ang iyang dakong gugma nganhi kanato. Kay wala niya ihikaw ang dugo sa iyang anak aron ang matag-usa ka tawo mahinloan gikan sa kasal-anan.

Tungod sa iyang gugma.

Ang Ginoo magpanalangin kanato!

Salamat sa imong tubag.

Apan ang pagntuana naku kay nganung kinahanglan man jud ang dugo para sa kapasayloan sa atong sala? Akong proposition mao nga kining shedding of blood to appease a god gkan kini sa paganung pagtulun-an nga gikopya sa Judeo-christian belief system.


Hunahuna-a...sa dihang gibuhat sa ginoo ang kalibotan ug ang katibok-ang universe ang gibuhat lang niya mao ang PAGSAMBIT ug pulong nga "let there be" boot pasabot nga ang pagpamulong nga naga gikan sa Baba sa Ginoo osa ka gamhanang buhat.

Busa sa iyag pagka gamhanan kinahanglan jud diay ang DUGO harun mahugasan ang sala? Dili diay niya kaya nga mu ingun nga "I HAVE FORGIVEN YOUR SINS" haron mawala atong sala? para nako KAYA oi, di na kinahanglan ang dugo,kay gamhanan gud siya,kay kung mao na nga gi kinahanglan jud ang dugo boot ba pasabot nga mas gamhanan ang dugo kay sa sa iyang authority,kaya man gani niya mugnaon ang kalibotan pinaagi sa iyang pulong so kaya ra pod niya ipamulong ang " i have forgiven your sins" then mawala na ang sala.

Ang problema man gud ani is kini laging Offering of blood sacrifice is gikan sa mga paganu nya gi kopya sa judeo-christianity.

[Reason2believe]

Blood its just a symbol. We can use perfume if you want, or water diba.. Its just a symbol plain and simple. reason2believe is there a book that you can give us as compact and informative as a Bible. And if you're mixing Religion and science. You are trying to mix water with oil then. Have you seen a monkey became man? thats theory. Where as the Bible is a written History.

Sir kun imong basahon ang akong gi pang post,klaro kaau didto sir nga i am dissceting w/c one is science and not. Thats why im telling the other gentleman that creation timeline cant be used as reference to authenticate historical facts.

[Super Bisdak]

Salamat sa imong tubag.

Apan ang pagntuana naku kay nganung kinahanglan man jud ang dugo para sa kapasayloan sa atong sala? Akong proposition mao nga kining shedding of blood to appease a god gkan kini sa paganung pagtulun-an nga gikopya sa Judeo-christian belief system.


Hunahuna-a...sa dihang gibuhat sa ginoo ang kalibotan ug ang katibok-ang universe ang gibuhat lang niya mao ang PAGSAMBIT ug pulong nga "let there be" boot pasabot nga ang pagpamulong nga naga gikan sa Baba sa Ginoo osa ka gamhanang buhat.

Busa sa iyag pagka gamhanan kinahanglan jud diay ang DUGO harun mahugasan ang sala? Dili diay niya kaya nga mu ingun nga "I HAVE FORGIVEN YOUR SINS" haron mawala atong sala? para nako KAYA oi, di na kinahanglan ang dugo,kay gamhanan gud siya,kay kung mao na nga gi kinahanglan jud ang dugo boot ba pasabot nga mas gamhanan ang dugo kay sa sa iyang authority,kaya man gani niya mugnaon ang kalibotan pinaagi sa iyang pulong so kaya ra pod niya ipamulong ang " i have forgiven your sins" then mawala na ang sala.

Ang problema man gud ani is kini laging Offering of blood sacrifice is gikan sa mga paganu nya gi kopya sa judeo-christianity.

yes bro, nakuha nako imong punto bahin ini. Nakapangutana na baya kos akong kaugalingon niana kaniadto.

Tinood nga pwede ra gyud kaayo nga i-ingon sa Ginoo nga NAPASAYLO na kitang tanan. Apan ang pangutana unsa may basihanan sa Iyang pagpasaylo? Nganong pasayloon man lugar ta Niya? Dinhi na dayon mosulod ang pulong GUGMA bro.

Karon unsaon man pagpamatood sa Ginoo sa Iyang dako ug tinood nga gugma sa mga tawo? Ang tubag, iyang gi-design ang DUGO aron ang tawo mahugasan sa kasal-anan. Iya nang gi-plano daan nga luwason Niya ang tao pinaagi sa Iyang kaugalingong DUGO. Alang-alang perfume ang gamiton o tubig ba kaha(hehe), dili kana pwede. Nganu man? Walay bili ang perfume o tubig kung ikompara kini sa dugo. Kung ang dugo i-ula nagpasabot ang tinugdan sa dugo niini gisakripisyo niya ang iyang kinabuhi.

Pinaagi niini sa ako nang nalakbitan atong ni-agi nako nga post, madayag ang Iyang gugma. Ang hinongdan pagpadayag sa gugma Niya.

Ang panalangin sa Ginoo magasunod kanato!

[Reason2believe]

yes bro, nakuha nako imong punto bahin ini. Nakapangutana na baya kos akong kaugalingon niana kaniadto.

Tinood nga pwede ra gyud kaayo nga i-ingon sa Ginoo nga NAPASAYLO na kitang tanan. Apan ang pangutana unsa may basihanan sa Iyang pagpasaylo? Nganong pasayloon man lugar ta Niya? Dinhi na dayon mosulod ang pulong GUGMA bro.

Karon unsaon man pagpamatood sa Ginoo sa Iyang dako ug tinood nga gugma sa mga tawo? Ang tubag, iyang gi-design ang DUGO aron ang tawo mahugasan sa kasal-anan. Iya nang gi-plano daan nga luwason Niya ang tao pinaagi sa Iyang kaugalingong DUGO. Alang-alang perfume ang gamiton o tubig ba kaha(hehe), dili kana pwede. Nganu man? Walay bili ang perfume o tubig kung ikompara kini sa dugo. Kung ang dugo i-ula nagpasabot ang tinugdan sa dugo niini gisakripisyo niya ang iyang kinabuhi.

Pinaagi niini sa ako nang nalakbitan atong ni-agi nako nga post, madayag ang Iyang gugma. Ang hinongdan pagpadayag sa gugma Niya.

Ang panalangin sa Ginoo magasunod kanato!

so diay puede ra ipamulong sa ginoo.

sa di pa ko mop adayun mangayo unta ko ug verses kung asa gisulat didto nga gi design sa ginoo ang dugo harun molimpyo sa atong sala?

kay sa akong sabot ug matud pa sa doktrina nga Kinahanglan ang DUGO to SATISY God's sense of justice.

so mangayo lang ko ug verses sir para magpamatood nga gi design sa ginoo ang dugo to cleansed our sins?

[Mr.Ho_chia]

Good morning sir.

okay, let me acknowledge your position w/c is,you think that creation timeline has a lot of basis. So it seems that we dont agree on that area.

Your proposition already assumes that yours(creation timeline) is the correct standard of time and it should be use to authenticate historical events. Question is,We dont see Scientists,historians,archeologists used a religous book to authenticate historical data. Mainstream science rejects the idea of the Creation timeline. Archeologists and historians dont use the bible as referrence to authenticate certain dates to verfiy the factualality of a certain event. In other words sir Creation timeline has a weak theory therefore rejected by the scientific community.


Bringing in the argument of the unreliability of creation timeline is necessary,its not really a new argument but a supplementary point to give the idea that any facts that takes its basis on religious book cant be accepted on the grounds that: religous book is faith base, its contain fictional stories,scientific inaccuracies such as certain sickness are healed by offering some birds and sprinkling its blood over the partient's body. With this supplementary point i am exposing the absurd idea of any faithfuls reading this material,that creation timeline is reliable. Therefore discrediting the idea that Jewish rituals of shedding blood is older than paganism.


This may sound arrogant but forgive me its not my intention to be so...The reliability that iam talking about can be found in the world wide web, just be diligent and try to search for it. If,you cant find it,hunt for good books that gives a comparative study between paganism and judeo- christianity. Everything that i said in what you quoted above,is a product of my exposure to different religions. Reading both sides of the story and laying down religous biases lead me to believe what i believe now.

Dont take my word,search it for yourself.

---------------------------------------

Sir i know that God should be holy and just because w/o these attributes he cease to be god. But your explanation ,not you, okay, failed. You fail to give a logical reason why Holiness and justice must require a bloody payment?

According to Christian systematic theology, Blood is NEEDED to SATISFY God's sense of justice. I have a picture in my mind,people specially christians might not like this but ill paint it anyway. There is this God and sees his creation in disobedeince because god gave them a test that he knows that they cant pass(adam n eve n the tree), now wants Justice because he is holy calls on shedding of Blood para ma SATISFY iyang sense of justice. Mura sa salida sa extreme justice ba, DUGO para ma SATISFY ang iyang justice. Punas ginhawa man gani ta ug likay ug patay kay lain tan-awon ng dugo.


With this knowledge sir i will maintain my position that this god is a blood-thirsty god.


With all his power can he not provide other means and way for the remissions of sin? I believe he can but the problem with christianity is that they borrowed this idea of redemption from pagansim.

mura ba ug tubig ning dugo harun e lipmyo sa mga hugaw sa sala w/c i find absurd. God doesnt need blood for the remission of our sins,all God has to say is I WILL FORGIVE YOU,no need for blood.

When a person comes to you and ask for forgiveness mo ingun ba kita nga kuha sa ug dugo o pa-awas sa ug dugo? kung may pag ka karaan ug utok ang tao cguro mangita cya ug padugo but logical people dont need to ask you for this act,all he has to say is, i have forgiven you.

I believe in the Bible and I believe in the sovereignty of the Judeo-Christian GOD. I believe that the Universe was created in a literal 6-day period and that happened not too long ago about 6 thousands years ago. THat is why when I made an argument the last time about the first recorded data on shedding of blood i pointed out the garden of eden and the time of abel which I argued that it can not be of pagan origin, The basis of which is the Bible.

I certainly understand your position, that scientist, will not use the Bible as a reference to whatever they're doing (except for those who are believers). But that doesn't mean your proposition of using their time line is the correct one as well. To date their is no concrete evidence that will support the time-line of the universe in the millions of years premise, there are a lot of circumstantial and suggestive evidences but none are absolutely conclusive, there are even more questions raised. A weak theory as well. Mention the dating mechanism by which they employ, you will be surprised that these are not strong theories as you wish to imply.

I certainly agree with you that scriptures is faith based, but it is hard to neglect that the faith the Christians have is based on the truth revealed in that very faith. There are a lot of things that we can no longer ignore that suggest GOD is. And to absolutely deny it is such a waste of logical and theoretical thinking which carries with it accountability and responsibility.

Taking the evolutionist stand and the Millions of years time-line that it suggest, you will be surprise to learn that behind all those so called scientific theories and evidences lies a great deal of faith. take this one for example, for a dead - none living thing- like a rock to be immerse in water (none stop rain) for millions of years and turn itself to an amoeba (a single cell organism) is a miracle of faith in itself. a none living thing to a living thing? the law of biogenesis a scientific fact totally disagree with that. for it says only life begets life. See the faith that one should employ to embrace such a belief? it is religious in nature but this time the gods are us --- humans.

And as we can see that both field is faith based, who's time line is now more accurate?

The coast line of australia were the oldest coral reefs in the world is found, where partly destroyed in the 2nd world war, after the war Australia used advance technology to determine how fast can they grow their coral reefs again the natural way, after 13 long years of observation and study, the australians using the same calculation methods concluded that their (the oldest in the world) coral reefs is about 6 thousand years old. Hmmmm.....

We are slowly loosing our moon, it moves farther away from earth each year by about a few inches, for the earth to be millions of years old, our moon should be kissing our earth to have its distance as we see it today, and we know that is impossible since the tide is dictated by the moons proximity to the earth.

there are a lot of other un-answered questions using the time line you suggest that goes beyond scientific calculations sir. that I hope you will get to see as well.

That is why I rejected your words because I know how to make my research. actually I was suggesting that you point out your sources so we can see if indeed it is absolutely accurate in how it determined time line because frankly speaking I have not seen any. It always have a certain faith needed. Just like the creation time line. Faith in GOD.
=============================================

Sir you must first understand that the payment of sin is death. you know why it is death? because we are separated from GOD, in the Christian belief based on scriptures, a part from GOD we die ( not authomatic physical death but spiritual death and of course physical death as we see ourselves deteriorating as we age). Because we are separated with GOD, the enemy(satan)will have authority over the unrepentant sinners, Scriptures is very explicit on what the enemy wants, he (satan) came to steal, to kill and to destroy. That is why apart from GOD is death. In order to purchase as from our sins and to pay our ransom, shedding of blood (death) is necessary so that satan can no longer argue to the Holy and JUST GOD that HE(GOD) is unjust of paying saliva(words)only instead of Blood(death) as the ransom he(satan) requires.

So if you are a JUST GOD will you do unjust things like humans? mangutang ta unyaunyaon ra ang bayad?

YOu see sir you are looking at the LORD our GOD in a wrong context. If you read scriptures GOD does not temp people, temptation is not the works of GOD, infact scriptures teaches us to flee away from temptation/s. Disobedience and rebellion is the work of the devil, he temp and decieve us to disobey and rebel against GOD so he will have authority over us, He employed a scheme to detached us from GOD but GOD made a way, not that HE is a blood-thirsty GOD but a Just GOD so no one can argue that he is unjust and unfair just because HE is GOD even the enemy can see that,

THat is why HE shed HIS innocent Blood for you, for me and for all who will embrace it, so that we will not shed our own for HE paid the ransom already, enough with blood and death the ultimate payment been made, isn;t it a wonderful thing? awesome GOD who thinks of you, me and everyone else.
==============================================

Human nature kung naay maduol magpakitluoy nako patawarun but he has to suffer the consequence of his/her action. for example gipatay sa usa katao ang inahan sa iyang uyab. patawarun sya sa iyang uyab of course but managot gihapon sya sa iynag gibuhat kung heinous crime ug naay lethal injection, aw death shedding of blood gyud na but gpasaylo na cya sa iynag uyab but bayad lang cya gihapon.

[krushuddel]

Why blood? Blood is life. We know how important life is, even yours. If you have to check the blood that was offered as a sacrifice was innocent. God is holy, and a just God, and for me an innocent blood is also blameless. God can't just turn His back as what men do.
It is also written..God said to Cain in..
Genesis 4:10
And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

and also to Stephen..
Acts 22:20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.

Only a blameless life can redeem your soul., and so blood must be shed for the remission of your sins. And so God manifest in the flesh, even Christ for the atonement of our sins.
Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
God is not the author of confusion it's just men allowing themselves to be.
Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

To God be the Glory!

[Reason2believe]

I believe in the Bible and I believe in the sovereignty of the Judeo-Christian GOD. I believe that the Universe was created in a literal 6-day period and that happened not too long ago about 6 thousands years ago. THat is why when I made an argument the last time about the first recorded data on shedding of blood i pointed out the garden of eden and the time of abel which I argued that it can not be of pagan origin, The basis of which is the Bible.

I certainly understand your position, that scientist, will not use the Bible as a reference to whatever they're doing (except for those who are believers). But that doesn't mean your proposition of using their time line is the correct one as well. To date their is no concrete evidence that will support the time-line of the universe in the millions of years premise, there are a lot of circumstantial and suggestive evidences but none are absolutely conclusive, there are even more questions raised. A weak theory as well. Mention the dating mechanism by which they employ, you will be surprised that these are not strong theories as you wish to imply.

I certainly agree with you that scriptures is faith based, but it is hard to neglect that the faith the Christians have is based on the truth revealed in that very faith. There are a lot of things that we can no longer ignore that suggest GOD is. And to absolutely deny it is such a waste of logical and theoretical thinking which carries with it accountability and responsibility.

Taking the evolutionist stand and the Millions of years time-line that it suggest, you will be surprise to learn that behind all those so called scientific theories and evidences lies a great deal of faith. take this one for example, for a dead - none living thing- like a rock to be immerse in water (none stop rain) for millions of years and turn itself to an amoeba (a single cell organism) is a miracle of faith in itself. a none living thing to a living thing? the law of biogenesis a scientific fact totally disagree with that. for it says only life begets life. See the faith that one should employ to embrace such a belief? it is religious in nature but this time the gods are us --- humans.

And as we can see that both field is faith based, who's time line is now more accurate?

The coast line of australia were the oldest coral reefs in the world is found, where partly destroyed in the 2nd world war, after the war Australia used advance technology to determine how fast can they grow their coral reefs again the natural way, after 13 long years of observation and study, the australians using the same calculation methods concluded that their (the oldest in the world) coral reefs is about 6 thousand years old. Hmmmm.....

We are slowly loosing our moon, it moves farther away from earth each year by about a few inches, for the earth to be millions of years old, our moon should be kissing our earth to have its distance as we see it today, and we know that is impossible since the tide is dictated by the moons proximity to the earth.

there are a lot of other un-answered questions using the time line you suggest that goes beyond scientific calculations sir. that I hope you will get to see as well.

That is why I rejected your words because I know how to make my research. actually I was suggesting that you point out your sources so we can see if indeed it is absolutely accurate in how it determined time line because frankly speaking I have not seen any. It always have a certain faith needed. Just like the creation time line. Faith in GOD.
=============================================

Sir you must first understand that the payment of sin is death. you know why it is death? because we are separated from GOD, in the Christian belief based on scriptures, a part from GOD we die ( not authomatic physical death but spiritual death and of course physical death as we see ourselves deteriorating as we age). Because we are separated with GOD, the enemy(satan)will have authority over the unrepentant sinners, Scriptures is very explicit on what the enemy wants, he (satan) came to steal, to kill and to destroy. That is why apart from GOD is death. In order to purchase as from our sins and to pay our ransom, shedding of blood (death) is necessary so that satan can no longer argue to the Holy and JUST GOD that HE(GOD) is unjust of paying saliva(words)only instead of Blood(death) as the ransom he(satan) requires.

So if you are a JUST GOD will you do unjust things like humans? mangutang ta unyaunyaon ra ang bayad?

YOu see sir you are looking at the LORD our GOD in a wrong context. If you read scriptures GOD does not temp people, temptation is not the works of GOD, infact scriptures teaches us to flee away from temptation/s. Disobedience and rebellion is the work of the devil, he temp and decieve us to disobey and rebel against GOD so he will have authority over us, He employed a scheme to detached us from GOD but GOD made a way, not that HE is a blood-thirsty GOD but a Just GOD so no one can argue that he is unjust and unfair just because HE is GOD even the enemy can see that,

THat is why HE shed HIS innocent Blood for you, for me and for all who will embrace it, so that we will not shed our own for HE paid the ransom already, enough with blood and death the ultimate payment been made, isn;t it a wonderful thing? awesome GOD who thinks of you, me and everyone else.
==============================================

Human nature kung naay maduol magpakitluoy nako patawarun but he has to suffer the consequence of his/her action. for example gipatay sa usa katao ang inahan sa iyang uyab. patawarun sya sa iyang uyab of course but managot gihapon sya sa iynag gibuhat kung heinous crime ug naay lethal injection, aw death shedding of blood gyud na but gpasaylo na cya sa iynag uyab but bayad lang cya gihapon.

Sir w/ due respect to Creationist scientists,i must say that...they need to strengthened their theory first for it to be accepted by mainstream science. I believe that the neutral side have already sift all the necessary data and weight all the pros and cons of both THeories (creationists and non-creationist) and come up with a decision to reject Creation Science and inset Evolutionary ideas including its propose timeline. But we are not talking about millions of years and evolutuion here are we?

I am saying that within the accepted historical timeline Pagansim came first before judaism. Now if anyone wishes to contest this reliable data one must then propose another theory, in your case any reliable data within the pages of the bible that suggest otherwise. Since the formation of arche0logy and the science of history i never heard anyone quoting biblical data to officialy declare a certain historical event as factual. They always use a secuilar accepted reference outside religious books.


Even biblical history suggests that paganism came first before judaism. Adam,Eve,Cain,Abel,Abraham,Isaac,Esau,Jacob, they were not jewish,why? because they were never part of the formation of the jewish nation and its religion judaism. Judaism was formed by Moses during the Exodus period. The golden calf edged a trace of paganism while Moses was up there formulating Judaism and its principles and instructions.

So even the bible suggests that paganism came first before Judaism.


Again this gives me more confidence that Shedding of blood was copied from pagansim.


I am looking God outside the box of christianity


God with all His power doesnt need any blood to satisfy Justice all He needs to do is say the word " I have forgiven you" unless of course He loves to see blood being shed infornt of His altar. Well,if thats how most christians see their way to salvation then no problem here, i am just pointing out that shedding of blood to appease a god is a concept from pagansim.

comapring God's justice to a human sense of justice such as lethal injection demotes god and levels him to the human's incapability to understand that justice doesnt need any man to die.


more point...by the way your previous post included these following words..."His Blood", God has a blood?

[Mr.Ho_chia]

Sir w/ due respect to Creationist scientists,i must say that...they need to strengthened their theory first for it to be accepted by mainstream science. I believe that the neutral side have already sift all the necessary data and weight all the pros and cons of both THeories (creationists and non-creationist) and come up with a decision to reject Creation Science and inset Evolutionary ideas including its propose timeline. But we are not talking about millions of years and evolutuion here are we?

I am saying that within the accepted historical timeline Pagansim came first before judaism. Now if anyone wishes to contest this reliable data one must then propose another theory, in your case any reliable data within the pages of the bible that suggest otherwise. Since the formation of arche0logy and the science of history i never heard anyone quoting biblical data to officialy declare a certain historical event as factual. They always use a secuilar accepted reference outside religious books.


Even biblical history suggests that paganism came first before judaism. Adam,Eve,Cain,Abel,Abraham,Isaac,Esau,Jacob, they were not jewish,why? because they were never part of the formation of the jewish nation and its religion judaism. Judaism was formed by Moses during the Exodus period. The golden calf edged a trace of paganism while Moses was up there formulating Judaism and its principles and instructions.

So even the bible suggests that paganism came first before Judaism.


Again this gives me more confidence that Shedding of blood was copied from pagansim.


I am looking God outside the box of christianity


God with all His power doesnt need any blood to satisfy Justice all He needs to do is say the word " I have forgiven you" unless of course He loves to see blood being shed infornt of His altar. Well,if thats how most christians see their way to salvation then no problem here, i am just pointing out that shedding of blood to appease a god is a concept from pagansim.

comapring God's justice to a human sense of justice such as lethal injection demotes god and levels him to the human's incapability to understand that justice doesnt need any man to die.


more point...by the way your previous post included these following words..."His Blood", God has a blood?

With all due respect to you as well, it was never a neutral thing in the past, If you look the olden times especially in the US, their forefathers where grounded in the word of GOD probably the reason why america is a great country that it is now.

Certainly the majority will always rule, if you have atheist and unbelievers voting, you will certainly shift the gear to where your leaning is, but what I am trying to point out and hope that you see, that the basis by which we determine time line from both sides employs faith, and that you can not hid in the reason of pure scientific data. It is not my intention to shift your gear towards mine, but to let you see that we both have faith in our respective understanding of time line.

That therefore based on whatever time line you may embrace, one can very well argue a point, To me by virtue of the creation of men and the fall of men in the garden of eden, shedding of blood is not of pagan origin. and I am right based on the creation time line.

Adam, eve, abel, cain etc, came from the creation of GOD and they worship GOD, to say they are pagan is totally unthinkable don't you think so sir? Excuse me sir the father of the jewish nation is abraham. where you got your twelve tribes of ISrael. and if you look at the lineage of abraham in scriptures you will see that it will be traced back to adam and eve.

Have you seen the play joseph the dreamer? if not it's in the Bible too. Joseph (son od abraham who was sold by his brothers and became king) brought the Isralites to Egypt while moses brought the Isralites out of Egypt.

Don't make such a conclusion that paganism came before Judaism, scriptures never said that. If you look at Judaism and the Old testaments, their belief starts from Genesis 1:1 when GOD created the heavens and the earth, so where will you put paganism there?

Therefore the shedding of blood to be copied from paganism is not a confidence that one can wallow but a pit that one may fall. a trap that gives false satisfaction.

if you are looking god outside the box of Judaism and Christianity then you are not looking at the GOD of the BIBLE at all.

GOD with all HIS righteousness and power is a just and HOLY GOD, but if HE starts thinking like we humans do then HE will cease to be God, imagine your arch enemy accusing you of unjustice, and shortchanging him?

This is not to appease GOD that HIS(GOD) blood should be shed for our sake, IT is for us to escape from shedding our own for HE(GOD) did it already. we are bought by HIS shedding of blood.

Reasoning how GOD should behave in the basis of HIS powers and strengths in our perspective is to demote GOD to be a human puppet.

Instead of learning and knowing HIM(GOD), HIs nature and character through scriptures to understand this GOD of the BIBLE and see how great and awesome HE truly is, we reject scriptures and try to challenge and fit GOD to our humanistic point of view and limit HIM to our own box.

Yes GOD shed HIS blood in the Cross of Calvary. Remember Jesus Christ?