Salvation

[bahiista]

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@akosadbi...

The reason why God cant allow us to go and sin no more is that He has given us our free will and with that God cant Go against what He have said.. His faithfulness is bounded by His words.
It is our own free will that go against the flow of God. And He honors our free will though it is painful to Him. that is how much God loved us and it cause Him His only Son JC.

[akosabni]

^ you said it bro, god honor our free will, hope you honor mine too ... question lang bro, would you be in pain and at the same time honor it

[Mr.Ho_chia]

According to scientific findings Creation timeline(advocated by Creatonists) can not serve as authentic data for REAL time(age of the earth and historical timeline).

Nobody really knows what happened from the beginning of time. Some say that there was Adam and Eve the first humans, but who really knows? what Mr.ho_chia suggested is solely based on faith books w/c cant be proven as authentic in matters of history. Worse than that, is, the book of beginnings(Genesis) is problematic in terms of authorship and historical facts, tho it contain real places that existed before, Archeologists and historians dont use it as evidence to prove a certain historical data. Any good writer can write a fictional book and use real names of people and places. Whats my point here?

Here it is, Reliable haitorical data shows that paganism came first before Judaism and christianity.Remember, the book of Genesis was written according to bible scholars during the early formation of Judaism. Before Judaism there was paganism. Somebody even said that Judaism and all its recorded stories found in the Torah are adaptations and improvisions from egyptian religion,the nation where Moses and the jews came. With this reliable information base on real works of people not on religious books I must say that paganism came first before Judasim and christianity. Therefore i will maintain my stand that shedding of blood is a concept purported by pagans.



More point here...

another thing we need to pay attention to w/c Mr.Ho_chia forgot to explain is the horrible thirst for blood by this god. A Great,good,decent,loving,just,all powerful god requires blood for the remission of sin? This god smiles and feels so satisfied upon the sight of seeing a blood being shed? tsk tsk. So horrible...imagine that,blood flows, a life was taken away and this god is happy and satisfied with it.

Does god have a need for him to be satisfied? With all this power he seem cant provide another way beside shedding blood? With all the love inside his heart,he can bear seeing a life taken away para lang ma satisfy iyang justice by shedding blood? what kind of justice does this god believes nga everything is dependent on blood man jud? I can compare this god to an evil king,nga everytime nga naay masupakon,he calls his berdugos to cut the head of the violators or worse,take an innocent life in payment for the violation of a sinner.

sir, the creation time line has a lot of basis. If it can not authenticate the real time line of the universe in all absolutism then what can? Don;t tell me sir that the millions of years evolutionist argue can autheticate time lines in all absolutism. I doubt it.

You opened an entirely different argument which directly discredit creation time line. you pointed out vagueness of scriptures from where you are standing from that is totally argumentative.

I wonder which and what proof you are talking about in reference to this and I quote:

"Here it is, Reliable haitorical data shows that paganism came first before Judaism and christianity.Remember, the book of Genesis was written according to bible scholars during the early formation of Judaism. Before Judaism there was paganism. Somebody even said that Judaism and all its recorded stories found in the Torah are adaptations and improvisions from egyptian religion,the nation where Moses and the jews came. With this reliable information base on real works of people not on religious books I must say that paganism came first before Judasim and christianity. Therefore i will maintain my stand that shedding of blood is a concept purported by pagans."

All I see sir is what your saying that this is based on a reliable historical data? which one, does this mean your utterance is the ultimate evidence?

in response to your more point sir, actually I did explain it already. That GOD is not a blood-thirsty god. Let me repeat it to you, true, GOD is loving, all smiling, caring and embracing GOD but HE is also a Holy and JUST GOD. otherwise the great GOD that HE is, should he be like you, me or anyone of us that manipulate the truth based solely on our reasons and logic, HE will cease to be GOD. Maski gani politicians with all the noble intentions fight each other for their own reasons kita pakaha.

A HOLY and JUST GOD will not allow sin/debt go unpaid. If a sinner pays for his sin, his death is payment for his alone, but an innocent LAMB of GOD that taketh away the sins of the world, who is blameless, spotless and all pure, shed his innocent blood for all the sinners, HE has purchased us and paid our ransom.HE has the authority over those who received HIM and therefore the enemy looses his own authority over a repentant soul. This is not for GOD sake but our sake. That is why the innocent blood of our LORD JESUS is precious and powerful because HE overcame death, the ultimate sacrifice was done and no more shedding of the innocent blood, His works is finished and final.

remember that this not a fight of swords but rather of power and principalities. Satan and his demons has authority over all the unrepentant souls, the enemy can argue to the LORD that the unrepentant souls is his. Only being saved will GOD be able to truly give you life and life abundantly in HIS presence.

[Mr.Ho_chia]

I see a contradictory points here.

1) "Let me clearly put it this way sir, it is not just the shedding of blood but the shedding of the innocent blood for the atonement of our sins"

*not just shedding of blood but the shedding of INNOCENT blood.

2)"We don;t have blood thirsty GOD, what we have is a HOLY, Righteous and JUST GOD."


first he requires blood then on the next point you said you dont have a blood thristy god.

does holiness requires blood?
does righteousness requires blood?
does justice requires blood? well naa may mga extreme justice diha,they require blood as payment for sins,maybe the sense of justice nga naa ning god is pareha pod sa ila.

Holiness requires everyone else to be HOLY as HE is HOLY, since we are all sinners only the payment of GOD thru the shedding of HIS innocent Blood which symbolizes HIS death became the payment for our sins, so that before we are sinners thru repentance and acceptance we are justified into holiness precisely because our sins are forgiven and were paid for.

Righteousness comes from being cleansed and washed from our sins and turning our back from our wicked ways and embracing the righteousness of GOD by living HIS example.

A JUST GOD requires payment for what we owe, since we sinned thru rebellion and disobedience, we are accountable but GOD died for us, HE paid for our sins, so would GOD require us still to shed our own blood when HIS son did that already? paid our sins and purchased us thru his death? should we then accuse GOD of being blood thirsty when infact HE died already so that no one should pay for their/our sins?

Not at all. Knowing the nature and character of GOD one will be amaze by HIS greatness and glory. Awesome! indeed.

[bahiista]

^ you said it bro, god honor our free will, hope you honor mine too ... question lang bro, would you be in pain and at the same time honor it

as Christians we have to walk our talk bro...meaning if have agree for it though it would be painful, you have to honor it...bro im not rying to convince you here, but what trying is to explain things to you...

[Mr.Ho_chia]

@Mr.Ho_chia

i certain agree with you on seeing things in different ways ... and i think your prayer has been answered, we're both right, we just see it differently, god knows this and he allows it ... you too sir, have a great week

Youp we are both right in certain aspect though we see one glass differently, but what comes after the glass descriptions determines the course of our action. Yes GOD allows it but approving it is entirely a different story.

and knowing GOD is no secret, HE revealed HIMSELF through scriptures. Great week sir. God bless.

[Reason2believe]

sir, the creation time line has a lot of basis. If it can not authenticate the real time line of the universe in all absolutism then what can? Don;t tell me sir that the millions of years evolutionist argue can autheticate time lines in all absolutism. I doubt it.

You opened an entirely different argument which directly discredit creation time line. you pointed out vagueness of scriptures from where you are standing from that is totally argumentative.

I wonder which and what proof you are talking about in reference to this and I quote:

"Here it is, Reliable haitorical data shows that paganism came first before Judaism and christianity.Remember, the book of Genesis was written according to bible scholars during the early formation of Judaism. Before Judaism there was paganism. Somebody even said that Judaism and all its recorded stories found in the Torah are adaptations and improvisions from egyptian religion,the nation where Moses and the jews came. With this reliable information base on real works of people not on religious books I must say that paganism came first before Judasim and christianity. Therefore i will maintain my stand that shedding of blood is a concept purported by pagans."

All I see sir is what your saying that this is based on a reliable historical data? which one, does this mean your utterance is the ultimate evidence?

in response to your more point sir, actually I did explain it already. That GOD is not a blood-thirsty god. Let me repeat it to you, true, GOD is loving, all smiling, caring and embracing GOD but HE is also a Holy and JUST GOD. otherwise the great GOD that HE is, should he be like you, me or anyone of us that manipulate the truth based solely on our reasons and logic, HE will cease to be GOD. Maski gani politicians with all the noble intentions fight each other for their own reasons kita pakaha.

A HOLY and JUST GOD will not allow sin/debt go unpaid. If a sinner pays for his sin, his death is payment for his alone, but an innocent LAMB of GOD that taketh away the sins of the world, who is blameless, spotless and all pure, shed his innocent blood for all the sinners, HE has purchased us and paid our ransom.HE has the authority over those who received HIM and therefore the enemy looses his own authority over a repentant soul. This is not for GOD sake but our sake. That is why the innocent blood of our LORD JESUS is precious and powerful because HE overcame death, the ultimate sacrifice was done and no more shedding of the innocent blood, His works is finished and final.

remember that this not a fight of swords but rather of power and principalities. Satan and his demons has authority over all the unrepentant souls, the enemy can argue to the LORD that the unrepentant souls is his. Only being saved will GOD be able to truly give you life and life abundantly in HIS presence.

Good morning sir.

okay, let me acknowledge your position w/c is,you think that creation timeline has a lot of basis. So it seems that we dont agree on that area.

Your proposition already assumes that yours(creation timeline) is the correct standard of time and it should be use to authenticate historical events. Question is,We dont see Scientists,historians,archeologists used a religous book to authenticate historical data. Mainstream science rejects the idea of the Creation timeline. Archeologists and historians dont use the bible as referrence to authenticate certain dates to verfiy the factualality of a certain event. In other words sir Creation timeline has a weak theory therefore rejected by the scientific community.


Bringing in the argument of the unreliability of creation timeline is necessary,its not really a new argument but a supplementary point to give the idea that any facts that takes its basis on religious book cant be accepted on the grounds that: religous book is faith base, its contain fictional stories,scientific inaccuracies such as certain sickness are healed by offering some birds and sprinkling its blood over the partient's body. With this supplementary point i am exposing the absurd idea of any faithfuls reading this material,that creation timeline is reliable. Therefore discrediting the idea that Jewish rituals of shedding blood is older than paganism.


This may sound arrogant but forgive me its not my intention to be so...The reliability that iam talking about can be found in the world wide web, just be diligent and try to search for it. If,you cant find it,hunt for good books that gives a comparative study between paganism and judeo- christianity. Everything that i said in what you quoted above,is a product of my exposure to different religions. Reading both sides of the story and laying down religous biases lead me to believe what i believe now.

Dont take my word,search it for yourself.

---------------------------------------

Sir i know that God should be holy and just because w/o these attributes he cease to be god. But your explanation ,not you, okay, failed. You fail to give a logical reason why Holiness and justice must require a bloody payment?

According to Christian systematic theology, Blood is NEEDED to SATISFY God's sense of justice. I have a picture in my mind,people specially christians might not like this but ill paint it anyway. There is this God and sees his creation in disobedeince because god gave them a test that he knows that they cant pass(adam n eve n the tree), now wants Justice because he is holy calls on shedding of Blood para ma SATISFY iyang sense of justice. Mura sa salida sa extreme justice ba, DUGO para ma SATISFY ang iyang justice. Punas ginhawa man gani ta ug likay ug patay kay lain tan-awon ng dugo.


With this knowledge sir i will maintain my position that this god is a blood-thirsty god.


With all his power can he not provide other means and way for the remissions of sin? I believe he can but the problem with christianity is that they borrowed this idea of redemption from pagansim.

mura ba ug tubig ning dugo harun e lipmyo sa mga hugaw sa sala w/c i find absurd. God doesnt need blood for the remission of our sins,all God has to say is I WILL FORGIVE YOU,no need for blood.

When a person comes to you and ask for forgiveness mo ingun ba kita nga kuha sa ug dugo o pa-awas sa ug dugo? kung may pag ka karaan ug utok ang tao cguro mangita cya ug padugo but logical people dont need to ask you for this act,all he has to say is, i have forgiven you.

[Reason2believe]

Holiness requires everyone else to be HOLY as HE is HOLY, since we are all sinners only the payment of GOD thru the shedding of HIS innocent Blood which symbolizes HIS death became the payment for our sins, so that before we are sinners thru repentance and acceptance we are justified into holiness precisely because our sins are forgiven and were paid for.

Righteousness comes from being cleansed and washed from our sins and turning our back from our wicked ways and embracing the righteousness of GOD by living HIS example.

A JUST GOD requires payment for what we owe, since we sinned thru rebellion and disobedience, we are accountable but GOD died for us, HE paid for our sins, so would GOD require us still to shed our own blood when HIS son did that already? paid our sins and purchased us thru his death? should we then accuse GOD of being blood thirsty when infact HE died already so that no one should pay for their/our sins?

Not at all. Knowing the nature and character of GOD one will be amaze by HIS greatness and glory. Awesome! indeed.

So the answer is YES then? Holiness requires blood
righteousness too requires blood para ma cleansed ta.
Justice too requires blood,your answer above suggests so.

All your answer,i found a disturbing word,the word is BLOOD. Seems to me that Blood iswhat really satisfy this god.

whats in the blood anyway,does the power to forgive sin comes from the blood? Is blood more powerful than God? Why does He need blood when all he can do is to say to a sinner that "i have forgiven you".

[Super Bisdak]

So the answer is YES then? Holiness requires blood
righteousness too requires blood para ma cleansed ta.
Justice too requires blood,your answer above suggests so.

All your answer,i found a disturbing word,the word is BLOOD. Seems to me that Blood iswhat really satisfy this god.

whats in the blood anyway,does the power to forgive sin comes from the blood? Is blood more powerful than God? Why does He need blood when all he can do is to say to a sinner that "i have forgiven you".

bro, maayong adlaw! tuguti ko pagtubag sa imong pangutana.

Kung mohisgot kita ug dugo bro nagsimbolo kini sa kinabuhi. Giplano naning daan sa Ginoo nga ang makahugas sa kasaal-anan mao ang dugo, sa Hebrews 10:1-4 gihisgutan kini.

Ato usab nga masayran nga ang bayad sa sala mao ang kamatayon, giingon kini sa Romans 6:23.

Mangutana siguro kita, nganung ingon ana man ang paagi sa Ginoo?

Ang tubag, tungod sa iyang GUGMA, John 3:16.

Pinaagi niini nga sistema gipakita o gipadayag sa Ginoo ang iyang dakong gugma nganhi kanato. Kay wala niya ihikaw ang dugo sa iyang anak aron ang matag-usa ka tawo mahinloan gikan sa kasal-anan.

Tungod sa iyang gugma.

Ang Ginoo magpanalangin kanato!

[FISHPEN]

Blood its just a symbol. We can use perfume if you want, or water diba.. Its just a symbol plain and simple. reason2believe is there a book that you can give us as compact and informative as a Bible. And if you're mixing Religion and science. You are trying to mix water with oil then. Have you seen a monkey became man? thats theory. Where as the Bible is a written History.