Salvation

[akosabni]

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@sienna

can you do me a favor, can you ask your bf, why are we blame for adam and eve's sins, do you think its fair for us to inherit their sins? can't jc erase this? ... good for you if you don't find god a mystery, can you tell me if god is a he or a she or both?

@bahiista

why would god create something that would rebel against him? it just doesn't make sense, unless of course he has no control over it or he likes the challenge, since it would be boring if we are all angels

when you said 'you can proclaim anytime that you want to quit being a Christian', what comes to my mind is that its really up to me and not what jc did; its seems i'm like i'm more powerful than jc as to what i'll do to my soul ... and if i do choose the other side, would that make jc a loser

this is what's bothering me, i don't want god to be a loser ... i don't want to think god, who is love, will continue creating babies with sins ... or would just let his creation decide to go to hell ... its just hard for me take these

that's why i believe that all are save and nothing could go wrong ... i trust my maker and i hope everybody does so

[bahiista]

Im glad your really trying to understand these thing bro...but there are thing that we people need to not understand but just follow what God has set before us. if you want to learn more, i want to invite to our call keeper group every monday @ 7pm we meet and discuss things about Christianity.

God did not in the first place created us to rebel. we are created for His pleasure. we mankind, was tempted and fail God, we rebel from God. it was mankind's choice [adam & eve] to rebel.

You can anytime renounce your Faith. You can go to hell. and believe me, all heaven will be in sorrow but it won't make heaven a loser. Neither Jesus Christ. it is not His lost. True that you are treasured possession, an apple in His eye. But JC will let you go if you want to and choose to be away from His will.
God has been in control of everything but each one of us has his own free will to choose. That's the area in our life that we must be wise because God have intrusted it to us.

Friend God will never be a loser regardless of how many people will go to hell. Jesus Christ have already conquered death which makes satan a loser for all eternity. Who do you think is a loser among the two, a soul in hell or God in Heaven?

Dont stop asking bro...

[sienna]

@ akosabni: im really happy dat ur inquiring regarding this. u can email him anytime pmd u

yes adam and eve are humans we are part of dem. :>

[chad_tukes]

who are we to predict our salvation? people who say you are saved by doing this and that are hypocrites. they can't even answer simple questions pertaining to salvation itself.

[Mr.Ho_chia]

yes, Mr.Ho_chai, there is a little confusion and i hope you will agree now that salvation your talking is conditional, one has to accept and repent before one is save. i see nothing wrong with this, since the condition is quite reasonable for the promise made ... wouldn't you agree with this?

as for appropriate payment, i don't know, you keep on saying that we still have do more ... it seems that god does not only need the principal back but also the interest

shedding of blood ... god must be furious when jesus used wine only at the last supper ... that's why he died a horrible death ... btaw, sir, as what reason2believe posted ... do we really have blood-thirsty god? ... i hope not

If you look at accepting the payment GOD gave for our sin (HIS DEATH) as a basis of that conditionality you're talking about then by all means. But if we refer it as to whom who can avail and receive it, then it is unconditional. I see nothing wrong with that as well sir.

Did I say we need to do more for the appropriate payment for our sins? I didn't say that, if you are referring to accepting GOD and HIS completed work for our salvation as "doing more" then you're right but sad to note you see it that way, such a huge burden on your part,

Let me clearly put it this way sir, it is not just the shedding of blood but the shedding of the innocent blood for the atonement of our sins. Jesus Christ was the Ultimate sacrifice, He knew no sin and has no sin, Innocent and HE paid for our sins, that is why there is no need to shed more innocent blood in our behalf.
We don;t have blood thirsty GOD, what we have is a HOLY, Righteous and JUST GOD.

We can always see things in two different ways..... it can be half empty or half full, it's our choice and I certainly pray we make the right one. Have a great day sir. GOD Bless.

[krushuddel]

If you look at accepting the payment GOD gave for our sin (HIS DEATH) as a basis of that conditionality you're talking about then by all means. But if we refer it as to whom who can avail and receive it, then it is unconditional. I see nothing wrong with that as well sir.

Did I say we need to do more for the appropriate payment for our sins? I didn't say that, if you are referring to accepting GOD and HIS completed work for our salvation as "doing more" then you're right but sad to note you see it that way, such a huge burden on your part,

Let me clearly put it this way sir, it is not just the shedding of blood but the shedding of the innocent blood for the atonement of our sins. Jesus Christ was the Ultimate sacrifice, He knew no sin and has no sin, Innocent and HE paid for our sins, that is why there is no need to shed more innocent blood in our behalf.
We don;t have blood thirsty GOD, what we have is a HOLY, Righteous and JUST GOD.

We can always see things in two different ways..... it can be half empty or half full, it's our choice and I certainly pray we make the right one. Have a great day sir. GOD Bless.

good point sir..

[akosabni]

@bahiista

thanks for the invitation, but i think i'll pass for now

yes bro, we were tempted and it was our choice to rebel, he didn't want it, but still he allowed it to happen, then god made sacrifices to bring us back to him, but still allow us to rebel against him ... it just not make sense, from what i've been taught, to solve the problem you must get rid of the cause. and we can clearly see that it was temptation, it was the devil, and if he still allows the devil to tempt us, who am i to resist it ... btaw, bro, this is my principle, if god allows it must be good

with that said, nobody gets to be the loser, everybody is a winner, including those in hell

@Mr.Ho_chia

i certain agree with you on seeing things in different ways ... and i think your prayer has been answered, we're both right, we just see it differently, god knows this and he allows it ... you too sir, have a great week

[akosabni]

just want to share these ...

The highest reward for a man's toil is not what he gets for it
but what he becomes by it. -John Ruskin

There are two kinds of people: those who say to God,
"Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, "All right, then,
have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

[Reason2believe]

There is a little confusion here somewhere, The ransom that GOD paid for has to be accepted by the person, meaning to say it's like a transaction that we will present as a receipt that indeed that debt had been paid for. that is why there is a need to accept and accepting goes with a real repentance, we can not claim of accepting that salvation without that repentance as a proof of our accepting.

Men in many times tried to do things on our way, we do penance, but would that be enough as payment for our sins? not so, Reason2Believe explicitly pointed out that for the remission of our sin there should be shedding of Blood (death), I absolutely agree, Because the GOD of the Bible is a HOLY and a JUST GOD. Being a JUST GOD an appropriate payment should be made equal to the offense made, the ultimate sacrifice was and is GOD himself so that the enemy(referring to the devil) cannot argue insufficient payment to manipulate his(devil) authority over us.

another point I want to share in relation to what reason2believe said. the shedding of Blood is not of a pagan origin, the first recorded shedding of blood was in the garden of eden, If you can remember when adam and eve eat of the fruit and hid themselves from GOD, remeber that GOD made clothes for them from animal skin? that was shedding of blood. although it was not explicitly discussed during the first few chapters in Genesis. But another shedding of Blood and a burnt offering was recorded during the time of Abel, how GOD was so pleased by what Abel offered to HIM.

If we go by Creation timeline,shedding of blood didn't came from paganism at all. Thanks

According to scientific findings Creation timeline(advocated by Creatonists) can not serve as authentic data for REAL time(age of the earth and historical timeline).

Nobody really knows what happened from the beginning of time. Some say that there was Adam and Eve the first humans, but who really knows? what Mr.ho_chia suggested is solely based on faith books w/c cant be proven as authentic in matters of history. Worse than that, is, the book of beginnings(Genesis) is problematic in terms of authorship and historical facts, tho it contain real places that existed before, Archeologists and historians dont use it as evidence to prove a certain historical data. Any good writer can write a fictional book and use real names of people and places. Whats my point here?

Here it is, Reliable haitorical data shows that paganism came first before Judaism and christianity.Remember, the book of Genesis was written according to bible scholars during the early formation of Judaism. Before Judaism there was paganism. Somebody even said that Judaism and all its recorded stories found in the Torah are adaptations and improvisions from egyptian religion,the nation where Moses and the jews came. With this reliable information base on real works of people not on religious books I must say that paganism came first before Judasim and christianity. Therefore i will maintain my stand that shedding of blood is a concept purported by pagans.



More point here...

another thing we need to pay attention to w/c Mr.Ho_chia forgot to explain is the horrible thirst for blood by this god. A Great,good,decent,loving,just,all powerful god requires blood for the remission of sin? This god smiles and feels so satisfied upon the sight of seeing a blood being shed? tsk tsk. So horrible...imagine that,blood flows, a life was taken away and this god is happy and satisfied with it.

Does god have a need for him to be satisfied? With all this power he seem cant provide another way beside shedding blood? With all the love inside his heart,he can bear seeing a life taken away para lang ma satisfy iyang justice by shedding blood? what kind of justice does this god believes nga everything is dependent on blood man jud? I can compare this god to an evil king,nga everytime nga naay masupakon,he calls his berdugos to cut the head of the violators or worse,take an innocent life in payment for the violation of a sinner.

[Reason2believe]

Let me clearly put it this way sir, it is not just the shedding of blood but the shedding of the innocent blood for the atonement of our sins. Jesus Christ was the Ultimate sacrifice, He knew no sin and has no sin, Innocent and HE paid for our sins, that is why there is no need to shed more innocent blood in our behalf.
We don;t have blood thirsty GOD, what we have is a HOLY, Righteous and JUST GOD.

I see a contradictory points here.

1) "Let me clearly put it this way sir, it is not just the shedding of blood but the shedding of the innocent blood for the atonement of our sins"

*not just shedding of blood but the shedding of INNOCENT blood.

2)"We don;t have blood thirsty GOD, what we have is a HOLY, Righteous and JUST GOD."


first he requires blood then on the next point you said you dont have a blood thristy god.

does holiness requires blood?
does righteousness requires blood?
does justice requires blood? well naa may mga extreme justice diha,they require blood as payment for sins,maybe the sense of justice nga naa ning god is pareha pod sa ila.