Everything about : RH Bill ( Reproductive Health Bill)

[Gwynhuever]

And because I am a woman, I know what women go through on a daily basis. I know the pain that goes with being a woman. And I wish the self-righteous, holier-than-thou priests and religious advocates who are MEN can experience even for a day what it feels to be a woman. These men are so quick to condemn, are so quick to judge when they will never ever know how it is to be female.

And that is why I feel so strongly that women need to stand up for themselves, and decide how they want to treat their bodies, and how they want to live their lives. They need to make decisions for them, and not let these MALE priests who are completely clueless make their decisions for them.

If taking the PILL makes me a sinner, then I guess my soul will burn in hell. But at least, while I am still living on this earth, at least I am able to make a choice for myself.

If you ban contraceptives, you are depriving women the freedom to live their lives on their own terms. You can advocate for Natural Family Planning all you want, but to propose a ban on contraceptives?

i could not say it any better....

i was also on the PILL for a long time...and mas makasasala ko kaysa nimo sis kay at least ikaw you took it for medical reasons...ako jud kay DI KO GANAHAN MANGANAK...nya naa diay mag buot nako...total ako ra bitaw maoy ma impyerno he he he....a woman has the right to CHOOSE. And back then I chose not to get pregnant. Karon I am blessed with a beautiful son....and as soon as that happened gi pa vasectomy dayon nako akong bana ....

so hala...mga ngilngig....i am opening myself to your holier than thou attitude....basta all i know is that we had our son at the right time and we made sure we will be able to take VERY GOOD care of him and provide for his needs

and by the way...PRO CHOICE sad ko...kay to quote another forumer here ( i think his name is rodsky) pro life = pro death of the mother.

[diatabz]

Ang ako lang unta ba, before we pass judgment on this bill, let's try to empathize on how women feel about being pregnant and all. Sa sige nakog trabaho ug hospital watching women give birth, I always tell myself I'm glad I'm not a woman kay mabuang siguro ko sa agian sa babay lol. I remember someone in the forums pointing out that we're so caught up in the whole pro-choice, pro-life debate that we hardly care what happens to the child and mother afterwards. So true. Regardless of whether overpopulation is real or not, women need to be able to make decisions about having children without being subjected to discrimination, moral questioning and whatnot.

[jepox]

we need the bill. it is not based on flawed facts man kay obvious man nga makit-an ang population explosion. basically. the bill gives the people the right to choose oi kay pait nang sige pangank dili lang part sa babae hasta sa laki pud. naa tay choice to control the size of our family, and ako nakita na one of the good effect sad is this can lessen rising numbers of abortion. this bill is not satanic as what the advocates of other camps claim kundi giving us the right to choose and protect sad our health kay daghan man pud data sa mga pregnancy related risks gud. thanks to the legislators who are championing this bill. to name a few Rep. Risa Hontiveros of Akbayan, Hon. Edcel Lagman and ang rep sa 6th district sa cebu si Hon. Nerissa Soon Ruiz - the lone rep sa cebu nga wa jud ni sign sa bill. hope di sya madala sa mga banters against niya especially from the church.

[Dorothea]

Ang ako lang unta ba, before we pass judgment on this bill, let's try to empathize on how women feel about being pregnant and all. Sa sige nakog trabaho ug hospital watching women give birth, I always tell myself I'm glad I'm not a woman kay mabuang siguro ko sa agian sa babay lol. I remember someone in the forums pointing out that we're so caught up in the whole pro-choice, pro-life debate that we hardly care what happens to the child and mother afterwards. So true. Regardless of whether overpopulation is real or not, women need to be able to make decisions about having children without being subjected to discrimination, moral questioning and whatnot.

Sakto gyud ka diha diatabz, maayo unta pareho nimo ug paminsar ning ubang mga lalake, labi na ning naa sa simbahan. Usahay hilas na paminawon ba. Tinuod oi, dili lalim ning mga kasakit sa mga babae, dili sa ingon nga pa luoy2x effect ha, pero sa una nga mag dysme ko, magsuka ug makuyapan ko usahay tungod sa ka sakit, and I know nga kadtong akong na feel, that's not even 1/100th of the pain a woman feels during labor. Dili lalim!

@gwyn, dah pareha ra tang duha oi. Naa na ta'y reservation didto sa "hell" kung si mannyamador lang ang pabut-on. Hahaha. Utro pud ko dili ganahan manganak oi, labi na sa panahon karon nga crisis. Bisan pa siguro wala ko'y deperensya, mag pills gihapon ko. Convenient para nako, sa ka busy sa kinabuhi wala ko panahon mag take2x temperature, mag observe2x ug unsa pa na diha, tan-aw2x kalendaryo. Kakapoy ra!

Kaning atong mga pari, utro pud ni sila dapat i-educate sa family planning kay daghan ko kaila nga daghan pud anak sa ilang mga chicks, ga pusot2x lang. Mga plastic, super ka tupperware.

[wng]

Maayo gani nga daghan2 na ta nisupak aning botbot sa kanang dili kahibalo mag binisaya diri... Maayo ta tubagon pero magbinisaya na lang ko kay gikapoy na gyud ko ug basa anang balik2 nga articles nga karaan na kaayo o questionable pa ang source. Unya makipag debate pa gyud nga subjective ba o debatable ba ang topic. Unsa naman ni oi.

Kana na lang gyud ang implantation failure atong lalisan noh? Mao na lang diay na ang maka langit o impyerno nato? Nga it occurs naturally man usahay. Sus, kung ato gyud ning kuwentahon... kanang gi sulti nga 88 menstrual cycles, di naa na sa mga 6 years and 9 months.

Kung ga pills, possible nga naa siyay implantation failure once in 6 years and 9 months ug wala pay anak.
Kung ganahan gyud manganak nga sige2 gyud, naa na siguro na siya sa mga 4 ka anak. Normally, naa siguro na siya sa mga 2 to 3 embryonic deaths.
Kung ga calendar method lang, naa na siguro na 2 ka anak, ug naa siguro na siya sa mga 4 to 6 embryonic deaths. Kung NFP siguro, basin 1 ra ka anak, pero mao ra gihapon kadaghan ang implantation failure.

Estimate ra pud na, pero kung basahon nimo medical sources, mao2 ra pud na nga mga percentages ba. I-ban na lang gyud nato ang pill kay delikado kay di siya 100% sure nga mo stop ang ovulation. Jus mi. gigamit ra gyud ni siya ug scapegoat kay actually, kung tarongon gyud nimo ug sabot na gipangyawyaw sa simbahan, di gihapon puwede ang condom ug ligation. ambot ngano gyud kay nasuya siguro nang mga authors anang balaod kay di man sila puwede maghimo...

Naa pa gyud post diri nga makuyawan kuno siya nga mag "population aging" na ta diri kung mag NFP kay effective kuno. Kinsa kaha ganahan ana nga ka kapoy ra. Ug karon mga panahona nga daghan magtrabaho ug graveyard shift ug unsa pang lain2 nga schedule, effective pa kaha na? Ug naa kay 3 ka anak bantayanan, maka kuha pa kha ug temperature sa imong kaugalingon o sa imong asawa, nga usahay halos di na gani na nimo makuhaan ug temperature ang imong anak nga gahilantan sa ka daghan buhatonon.

[Dorothea]

Korek, wng! Kapoy na bitaw itubag kay bisan imo siyang ingnon sa sayop sa iyang mga sources, mang deadma lang. Wala gyud gi address akong pangutana, kay siguro wala man siya'y matubag. Unya hilas pa kaayo ingon nga ang mga lalake mas takos ug mas daghan ug kahibawo bahin ani nga isyu kaysa mga babae, wala siya kuyapi! Kinsa man diay ang end users ani, nga mga babae man. Lugar, mag hilom lang mi unya maghuwat nga diktaran kung unsa ang angayan namo buhaton? Maayo lang mosulti ana ning mga tawo nga dili maoy mag antos sa siyam ka buwan, sayon ra kaayo mohukom. Unya ang mga pari mag sige ug promote anang NFP, wala man gani ming epek nila kay ilang mga kabit nanga buntis man gani. Mga ipokrito lagi.

Kaning atong bro dire nga dili kabawo mag bisaya, maayo sa yawyaw pero wala siguro ni kasuway ug real life situations ba. In theory, sus maayo kaayo ni paminawon ning iyang gipang ingon, pero in real life, ambot lang. Alisto raba kaayo mag copy paste ug mga articles nga karaan, ug tinuod questionable pa ug asa nakuha! Hahaha! Dinha ko'y mga nabasahan nga recent articles, gikan pa sa mga standard sources ug references nga ga refute anang iyang yawyaw, mga 2008 gyud ni, pero kakapoy ra mag copy paste! Unya sa iya lang mga sulti bahin aning mga contraceptives, daghan na sayop.

Agay, makalagot nga makalingaw ning atong bro oi. Makakatawa nalang ko sa iyang antics.

PS. ai, naa pa ko'y pakapin diay, akong amiga nga ga NFP, toa nanawag na nako gabii kay na buntis. Dili pa gyud convenient time para niya karon kay ga trabaho siya unya ga eskwela at the same time, pero unsaon ta man. Grabe iyang pagsalig sa NFP, maayo unta next time ma realize niya nga dili diay epektib.

[mannyamador]

And about this whole ectopic pregnancy issue, see that is where this whole premise gets screwed up. Whether you do it to save the mother's life, the end result is still the death of the fetus.

There is very faulty reasoning here. The MEANS used to an end must also be considered, not only the end itself. Killing in self-defense and killing out of malice both result in a dead person. But they are NOT morally equivalent.

There is a world of difference between ectopic pregnancies and regular pregnancies ended by an abortifacient.

In an ectopic pregnancy, the child CANNOT be saved no matter what, and action MUST be taken to save the mother's life. In the use of abortifacients to in normal circumstances, however, the child is usually NORMAL and there is no need whatsoever to take any action that may endanger the child in order to save the mother's life (becauss the mother is NOT in danger). The difference is like night and day. How can you ignore these obvious differences? You are ignoring the obvious differences for your convenience.

That is how effective the PILL is as an anti-ovulation agent.

You are being quite selective with the facts. It has been scientifically established that breakthrough ovulation occurs. I have cited clear medical evidence that this actually occurs. That is why some women still get pregant. You, on the other hand, have NOT cited a single study that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that breakthriough ovulation cannot occur,. You have totally FAILED to do so. All you give are claims.

I'm afraid I will have to use your own words describe YOUR OWN actions. You accuse pro-life people of idiotic rationalizations, when it is as clear as day that you also do it when it suits you. You twist facts when it furthers your agenda. When your opponents "rationalize", they're WRONG. When you "rationalize", you're RIGHT. May I also add that you totally ignore evidence when it suits you.

And yes, I do think you reek of arrogance. This statement of yours convinced me of that. See below:
"And a lot of men know far more about the scientific and ethical issues involved than women, so gender is NOT a determining factor there either."

All I have done is proven you wrong. Why do you take it personally and get all emotional? What is arrogant about stating a fact? Are you so high and mighty that no one is allowed to show you that you are wrong?

It seems that you are merely trying to justify your own actions with twisted reasoning and selective use of evidence, ignoring the effects of abortifacients on the lives of millions of unborn children. I find that dishonest and irresponsible. But if you cannot conduct an objective, rational discussion instead going ballistic when someone disproves your assertions, then then I will refrain from posting direct answers to you until you can cool down and look at things objectively. Peace.

@diatabz

If we go with the abortifacient debate, doesn't that raise some questions? Using the same logic, the government should be outlawing the following.

I think there is a difference in the means, intent, and necessity. Abortifacients are a direct means to prevent implantation, and this effect is a known and inseperable part of the intended mechanism (in some abortifacient contraceptives it is a secondary mechanism; and in some other emergency contraceptives it is practically the primary mechanism). Unless used for therapeutic purposes, they are totally unnecessary for health. In fact, many contraceptives have UNHEALTHY side effects, .

Breast feeding, on the other hand, is very beneficial for children (some would even say that NOT breastfeeding poses more dangers), and is not intended as an abortifacient birth control method (an abortifacient mechanism is not an inseperable part of its function, which is nutrition). The logical analysis is similar for exercise. Coffee? It doesn't have the means/intent. But if one KNOWS that it is dangerous (some women may be far more sensitive to it than others), then by all means she should avoid coffee.

Abortifacients should be banned as birth control methods, but if the substances are required for therapeutic purposes (where they do not affect an unborn child), they are permissible. In the same way, high-powered firearms and other destructive weapons can be banned for use by the general public in settling disputes, but you can permit the police and military to use them for peace and order and national defense.

[bcasabee]

Sakto jud siguro giingon nga, kapogngan pay baha, sa tawo nga gibiga^. Tinood or dili? Kung tinood, unsa may gamit ani nga bill? Kini nga bill makapugong ba kaha ni sa biga? Labi na sa mga pobre nga dili kapalit ug condom, pills ug unsa pa na diha. Resulta, mosamot kadaghan ang pobre unya mosamot ka gamay ang population sa middle class nga maka afford ani nga mga contraceptives. Complication: kay dili man ka afford ang mga pobre, mag allocate ug budget para subsidy, samot ka pobre ang pilipinas. Kurakoton pa jud, samot.

Sakto gyud ka diha diatabz, maayo unta pareho nimo ug paminsar ning ubang mga lalake, labi na ning naa sa simbahan. Usahay hilas na paminawon ba. Tinuod oi, dili lalim ning mga kasakit sa mga babae, dili sa ingon nga pa luoy2x effect ha, pero sa una nga mag dysme ko, magsuka ug makuyapan ko usahay tungod sa ka sakit, and I know nga kadtong akong na feel, that's not even 1/100th of the pain a woman feels during labor. Dili lalim!

@gwyn, dah pareha ra tang duha oi. Naa na ta'y reservation didto sa "hell" kung si mannyamador lang ang pabut-on. Hahaha. Utro pud ko dili ganahan manganak oi, labi na sa panahon karon nga crisis. Bisan pa siguro wala ko'y deperensya, mag pills gihapon ko. Convenient para nako, sa ka busy sa kinabuhi wala ko panahon mag take2x temperature, mag observe2x ug unsa pa na diha, tan-aw2x kalendaryo. Kakapoy ra!

Kaning atong mga pari, utro pud ni sila dapat i-educate sa family planning kay daghan ko kaila nga daghan pud anak sa ilang mga chicks, ga pusot2x lang. Mga plastic, super ka tupperware.

[mannyamador]

Edcel's winter
By Antonio J. Montalvan II
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 04:08:00 10/06/2008
Edcel's winter - INQUIRER.net, Philippine News for Filipinos

MANILA, Philippines - As inevitably as it happened to many countries before us, so will it be for us. Are they deliberately skirting the issue? There was passing mention of it in the University of the Philippines study that they have cited. But given the preponderance of the phenomena now taking place in this 21st century of ours, to say that such will elude us in the future is like raw speculating, nay manufacturing evidence against what has become a wellspring of empirical evidence.

The statement shall remain essential because there has been no evidence to the contrary: countries that have opted for population control programs in the 1970s are now faced with the grim-and expensive-reality of caring for an aging population.

Sociologists call it the demographic winter, and what an apt name it verily is. For it will be a winter of our discontent. It is a demographic condition where birth rates, because of contraception, have gone down. As a result, the demographic distribution creates a majority of the aged, the infirm and the geriatric of the populace.

In wealthy countries, the aged are subsidized by the state for a variety of social welfare benefits such as old age pension, health and medical care benefits, including hospitalization. The costs, without doubt, are tremendous. As experienced in European countries, the condition creates a regime of high taxes which young people will have to bear.

But that is only a partial view of the situation. In an aging population, there is a lack of young manpower. Hence the state will have to allow importing labor. It is a condition where the human resource of a country has truly gone down.

These countries that are now in the vortex of this grave social problem such as the demographic winter are now in a state of mea culpa. They have regretted it. We need not go far into the current conditions of the European countries. Right here in our neighborhood, Japan and Singapore are examples of countries suffering the effects of the demographic winter. Singapore now encourages couples to have more children.

Studies have shown that a fertility rate of 2.1 in a stable society is necessary to keep that population's constant in the long-term. In the European Union, for instance, where the general fertility rate is a very low 1.47 babies per woman, the rate certainly not enough to produce the next generation of Italian, French and English people.

Experts have referred to it as a case of societal ennui. Among the social costs is the rise of values that see a profusion of rights but very little accountability to assume responsibilities, including the responsibility to raise children which has become optional. We see more and more rights being accumulated while discarding more and more of our duties. Almost always, these rights work against new life.

Italy, Spain and Greece, three countries that have entered the contraception and sexual revolution later than their other European counterparts, were until recently countries of large family sizes, high birth rates and countries of emigration. Today many of the young in these countries are seized by the fear of paternity and maternity. We are producing young people who are alien to the meaning of courage.

Instead of raising children, the young in these countries are indoctrinated into the belief that it is money and pleasure that will provide them the most fulfillment. It is building in them a capacity to see only that which is fleeting and ephemeral, not the basic moral values which are intrinsically binding. In a popular culture dedicated to the corruption of youth, anti-life messages by media and governmental agencies see easy absorption and social acceptance. At the forefront of this emergent worldwide culture are organizations that actively promote pro-death agendas such as the International Planned Parenthood Federation. You can be sure that they are also behind the Lagman bill.

The pattern has now become clear as crystal. Edcel Lagman and Esperanza Cabral now want us to commit suicide.

I say, however, pass the reproductive health bill now. Give it to Edcel Lagman and all the rabid pro-death messiahs of this country. And then give ourselves some 30 years to suffer the consequences of a demographic winter. In a struggling country such as ours, not to mention its affliction with pervasive corruption, a grave social problem will truly be in the offing. Needless to say, it will be a condition that the Philippines can ill afford, if at all.

It is all total absurdity for which the return to moral sanity may be, regrettably, too late. I certainly do not hope so, and not even when only our phantoms shall roam this earth-Edcel Lagman's included.

[Dorothea]

Mannyamador, I am slowly finding your arguments quite funny. Your posts now provide amusement for me. So you say you've posted evidence? I don't really like the word ESTIMATE, so ESTIMATES I tend to ignore. Hehehe. And I have also suggested that you check out your very own cited reference (Drug Facts & Comparisons), which you haven't done obviously, or else you would have copy pasted it here for all eternity. I don't consider myself high and mighty at all, or I would be just like you, pointing out how everyone else is wrong and not even having enough sense to re-read your own posts and look at the errors made. And I don't care about posting articles here, because I'd rather have you do the work and read up on the standard texts and references than me having to spend time copying and pasting. I've asked you lots of questions already, and you haven't bothered to answer.

And I have tried to explain to you already, women get pregnant sometimes when they're on the pill, not because of the failure of the pill itself, but because of non-compliance. And that is not even including drug, food, herbal interactions. So again, do give me CLEAR evidence of all your claims. Maybe you need to read up more on the subject, and not put so much trust on the articles your pro-life friends push in your face. You're like a broken record playing the same song over and over again. Do you even evaluate things for yourself, or do you just echo whatever they tell you?

Do you honestly think there's MALICIOUS INTENT when a woman uses a contraceptive? Not only are you arrogant, you're deluded. And to actually think that MEN know MORE than WOMEN when it comes to MORAL and ETHICAL issues, and to say it is FACTUAL? That's clear arrogance, isn't it? Or maybe, you really are just clueless.

When you say things like that, you make it personal. But that's ok because your posts are honestly, quite entertaining. They make me smile. I never know what outrageous stuff you will come up with next, and when you do post something, it turns out to be better than I could ever expect, so it makes me smile.

I don't know with you, but I'm ready to discuss something else. What do you propose we should ban next? (I hope it ain't me!) he he he

Peace bro!