How to stop or solve the poverty in the Philippines?

[al1974]

I have read the theory already and had heard the discussion from the author himself Mr. Bentulan. I don't wish to put down the person behind it, but it seems he missed to see the science behind a "market-driven economy" which has been tested time and time again.

If you have read the theory well and believed it, then both of you are missing real economic concepts here. And yes, while you can't apply economic concepts most of the time, but you can apply those that are proven and tested. Thus the saying -- "If it ain't broke (accepted economic principles) why fix it?"

No.2 you and the author are not judicious in using economic data. You compare wages in affluent countries as basis why hyperwages can be applicable here. Does he know what BMI (Burger Mac Index) means? Did he ever study the impact of forex parity with reference to purchasing power between trading countries? That any adjustment in prices can dampen export markets? If he didn't, it can only mean he's just making up the theory without prudence.

No. 3 The theory plays on a skewed assumption that it will work because it invites foreign investments. This is REAL BS. How can you invite foreign investments with that if you're wages is not at par with countries offering the same job? Does your "theory" have any real data where it indicated a surge in foreign direct investment when hyperwage was applied?

I'm sorry, I don't even bite if hyperwage meets the criteria of being a theory -- it is very unintelligible, unscientific and best of it all -- it is unfounded!

Believe me- Mr Bentulan can explain it better. Forward this to his email-

streetstrategist@gmail.com

[nItO/pIrEnA]

is the street strategist a pinoy? a bisdak? if yes, wow...awesome...

* * *

not a solution, but a grim observation:

we take pride in being an emerging BPO hub, we're happy being called the prime supplier of quality overseas worker...

yeah, isnt that great

...we're giving Bangalore a run for their money when it comes to cheap labor and high-school level careers...

...we take pride for producing the best workers the world over...guess what? so was Africa a few centuries ago (read: slave trade)...the only difference is that now, the slaves voluntarily get in the slave ships...

[P-Chan]

be like china nalang.. ues all these poor people to mass produce philippine products para naa pud ta pambato.. ang mo sponsor? goverment of course.. pero you know na atong goverment.. unless naai mo himo ug factory or something then mas better pud if naai dorm2x sa mga ingon ani na factory for those homeless people if they have enough we can kick them out.. lol..

advantage
less poor people in streets begging,safe pud for the people driving and them
people have jobs, you know the fishing quote.. (don't give a man fish, teach him to fish.. blah2x. naka basa ra pud ko ana diri)
helps the economy
better2x tanawon ang atong street with less people beggin'

[brownprose]

Believe me- Mr Bentulan can explain it better. Forward this to his email-

streetstrategist@gmail.com

Sir, to be honest I have spoken to Mr. Bentulan over DYAB some 3-4 years ago. I posed the same questions to him and all he could return was "you're being bookish." I presented tons of data (both local and foreign) that even small wage adjustments have inflationary effects, all he could say was "No, that's wrong. He said that if hyperwage was inflationary, "Singapore would have high levels of inflation" in which the latter comment is an apparent omission of the historical facts behind Singapore's wages. Never did Singapore, at one time in their history, deliberately or consciously determined wage prices let alone adopted a hyperwage policy that was the basis of, what is now, Singapore's current wages.

I also remember how he debunked views from the Central Bank, and some people from the academe who were opposed to his theory of being "wrong and traditionalists." Wapa gani ma probahan ang iyang theory diretso na ug ingon "sayop or traditionalist." Did he have to say necessarily those words when all he could have done was to simply refute the data vis-a-vis his so-called theory?

I'm not an economist but I know what's good economics or not. I would like to compare hyperwage as a circuit -- taking the long, unsensical route towards the finish line ( or what he calls "high purchasing power") which is inflationary and economically perilous solution.

You don't need to increase wages unreasonably high to improve an ordinary man's purchasing power. You only need to make prices reasonably low in order to empower marginal wage earners to buy more with less. This can be achieved by investing on cost-reducing technologies or better yet improve supply chains.

The author is belaboring a very simple equation to a complex equation. What's worse, he arrived at the wrong equation because he started with the wrong givens -- that's why I said his theory is not at all a theory but mere suppositions or gut feelings. Unfortunately, no economic policy can be legislated or adopted out of a gut feeling or unfounded suppositions.

[al1974]

I have read the theory already and had heard the discussion from the author himself Mr. Bentulan. I don't wish to put down the person behind it, but it seems he missed to see the science behind a "market-driven economy" which has been tested time and time again.

If you have read the theory well and believed it, then both of you are missing real economic concepts here. And yes, while you can't apply economic concepts most of the time, but you can apply those that are proven and tested. Thus the saying -- "If it ain't broke (accepted economic principles) why fix it?"

No.2 you and the author are not judicious in using economic data. You compare wages in affluent countries as basis why hyperwages can be applicable here. Does he know what BMI (Burger Mac Index) means? Did he ever study the impact of forex parity with reference to purchasing power between trading countries? That any adjustment in prices can dampen export markets? If he didn't, it can only mean he's just making up the theory without prudence.

No. 3 The theory plays on a skewed assumption that it will work because it invites foreign investments. This is REAL BS. How can you invite foreign investments with that if you're wages is not at par with countries offering the same job? Does your "theory" have any real data where it indicated a surge in foreign direct investment when hyperwage was applied?

I'm sorry, I don't even bite if hyperwage meets the criteria of being a theory -- it is very unintelligible, unscientific and best of it all -- it is unfounded!

How To Analyze Hyperwage Theory

If you want to intelligently analyze Hyperwage Theory, here are some tips to streamline your efforts:

1. Do not jump into the discussion feeling "more intelligent" than the proponents and students of Hyperwage Theory waving your knowledge in basic economics gathered in Econ 101 and Econ 102.

2. You must assume that the Hyperwage theorists have read and understood Econ 101 and Econ 102, and probably more intelligently than you did.

3. Read the book. The book is still free by download from Streetstrategist - The Misadventures of the Street Strategist Volumes 1 to 13* by Thads Bentulan(streetstrategist@gmail . Though the Hyperwage Theory was serialized in BusinessWorld business newspaper in 2005, it has been edited for typos, and the latest version is uploaded when available.

4. As you read the book, try to find out what principles or ideas in the book are incompatible with your Econ 101 and Econ 102. Do not assume immediately that the "incompatibility" makes the Hyperwage Theory wrong. Reserve you judgment after you have read the entire book, word for word.

5. While reading the book, take down notes and write down you questions. It is probable that your questions will be answered in the later parts of the book.

6. After reading the book, and after noting the "incompatibilities" you can then post your questions or reactions in this web forum.

7. Again, assume that the proponents of the Hyperwage Theory are endowed with a certain level of knowledge and intelligence, and therefore be careful in coming up with your own violent "intelligent" reactions that may make you appear ignorant or idiotic.

8. If you are not prepared to follow these tips on how to analyze Hyperwage Theory, then it is better if you do not waste your valuable time in this forum.

9. As always, in any decent conversation, avoid hate, personal. disparaging remarks. Look at the idea, not the person.

10. If you don't believe in Hyperwage Theory, it is better to create your own theory on how to make poverty history in Africa, Asia and other Third World countries.

[al1974]

is the street strategist a pinoy? a bisdak? if yes, wow...awesome...

* * *

not a solution, but a grim observation:

we take pride in being an emerging BPO hub, we're happy being called the prime supplier of quality overseas worker...

yeah, isnt that great

...we're giving Bangalore a run for their money when it comes to cheap labor and high-school level careers...

...we take pride for producing the best workers the world over...guess what? so was Africa a few centuries ago (read: slave trade)...the only difference is that now, the slaves voluntarily get in the slave ships...

The author is Thads Bentulan, a Filipino. He is the Streetstragest- a column in the Business World.
Read the whole theory. email him- streetstrategist@gmail.com.ph

He will send you a copy of pM me your email. I'll send you the PDF file

[al1974]

Sir, to be honest I have spoken to Mr. Bentulan over DYAB some 3-4 years ago. I posed the same questions to him and all he could return was "you're being bookish." I presented tons of data (both local and foreign) that even small wage adjustments have inflationary effects, all he could say was "No, that's wrong. He said that if hyperwage was inflationary, "Singapore would have high levels of inflation" in which the latter comment is an apparent omission of the historical facts behind Singapore's wages. Never did Singapore, at one time in their history, deliberately or consciously determined wage prices let alone adopted a hyperwage policy that was the basis of, what is now, Singapore's current wages.

I also remember how he debunked views from the Central Bank, and some people from the academe who were opposed to his theory of being "wrong and traditionalists." Wapa gani ma probahan ang iyang theory diretso na ug ingon "sayop or traditionalist." Did he have to say necessarily those words when all he could have done was to simply refute the data vis-a-vis his so-called theory?

I'm not an economist but I know what's good economics or not. I would like to compare hyperwage as a circuit -- taking the long, unsensical route towards the finish line ( or what he calls "high purchasing power") which is inflationary and economically perilous solution.

You don't need to increase wages unreasonably high to improve an ordinary man's purchasing power. You only need to make prices reasonably low in order to empower marginal wage earners to buy more with less. This can be achieved by investing on cost-reducing technologies or better yet improve supply chains.

The author is belaboring a very simple equation to a complex equation. What's worse, he arrived at the wrong equation because he started with the wrong givens -- that's why I said his theory is not at all a theory but mere suppositions or gut feelings. Unfortunately, no economic policy can be legislated or adopted out of a gut feeling or unfounded suppositions.

What purchasing power for an ordinary man? Do the minimum wage earner have this? Even a 12,000 monthly earning is never enough to rent a decent house, send kids to school, put up a savings, altogether.

Put simply- have you read the entire book?

If you haven't, then there is nothing that we should argue here.

[brownprose]

How To Analyze Hyperwage Theory

If you want to intelligently analyze Hyperwage Theory, here are some tips to streamline your efforts:

1. Do not jump into the discussion feeling "more intelligent" than the proponents and students of Hyperwage Theory waving your knowledge in basic economics gathered in Econ 101 and Econ 102.

It was this theory that jumped against the principles of Economics. That's why I did look back my Economics like any ordinary school boy you know. I have every page of Mr. Bentulan's Hyperwage hype. Like I said, it confuses readers by its being injudicious of using data.

2. You must assume that the Hyperwage theorists have read and understood Econ 101 and Econ 102, and probably more intelligently than you did.

Like who are these hyperwage proponents/theorists? Do they have peer recognition from noted Economic Forums or Organizations?

I don't claim to be any much better than its/their proponent/s. All I'm saying in my posts is that it is a theory which is not technically a theory in itself in the standards of Economic concepts, why do you have to deprive me of such observation?

3. Read the book. The book is still free by download from Streetstrategist - The Misadventures of the Street Strategist Volumes 1 to 13* by Thads Bentulan(streetstrategist@gmail . Though the Hyperwage Theory was serialized in BusinessWorld business newspaper in 2005, it has been edited for typos, and the latest version is uploaded when available.

Unfortunately, I sift the grain from the chaff and wouldn't care less if they were published by BWorld. After all, you don't always believe what you read. All I care, is whether or not what he says is worth believing or just simply worth the entertainment. Unfortunately it is to me more of the latter.

4. As you read the book, try to find out what principles or ideas in the book are incompatible with your Econ 101 and Econ 102. Do not assume immediately that the "incompatibility" makes the Hyperwage Theory wrong. Reserve you judgment after you have read the entire book, word for word.

I told you...I have read much of Bentulan's works already. The incompatibility is not what makes his theory wrong. What makes it wrong is that it starts with very wrong suppositions.

5. While reading the book, take down notes and write down you questions. It is probable that your questions will be answered in the later parts of the book.

I took note of them already. All I read are rantings and stories not discussions of the "whys" and the "whens" to abandon an economic principle. Read it. Compare your notes with Econ 101. You will easily find it.

Ok. Case in point. Parity Exchange. Lets listen what he has to say about this:

"Why? The error lies in what the PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) ranking tells you and what it does not tell you. The PPP tells you that the Third World countries such as the Philippines are cheaper countries. That’s good. However, it does not tell you this: The prices are cheap but the people have no money to buy."

True. But does he know or did he explain why people have no money? For sure, it wasn't low wages that caused all those. Besides how do you hyperwage a man that has no money in the first place?

PPP cannot always be used in the context of a person's "intra" purchasing power. PPP is to be taken in light of international commerce (you may want to read an annual publication of The Economist "Big Mac Index to know more about what/how PPP is largely employed in international business). It is widely used as a tool or instrument in import and export. It leverages one's exchange rate to buy or sell products to improve margins.

Let's examine hyperwage along this scope. Hyperwage artificially raises prices of export products making the products less affordable to buyers. A very simplistic example -- Namaligya/export ko ug virgin coconut oil but my production cost is high because i have a high labor input. Question: Do you think mamalit pa nako akong mga buyers with the same product? You can't stop buyers to buy VCO from cheaper suppliers like Indonesia or Malaysia, can you?

6. After reading the book, and after noting the "incompatibilities" you can then post your questions or reactions in this web forum.

I just did.

7. Again, assume that the proponents of the Hyperwage Theory are endowed with a certain level of knowledge and intelligence, and therefore be careful in coming up with your own violent "intelligent" reactions that may make you appear ignorant or idiotic.

Wow, i like the arrogance. Kalma lang gud. I may have come from the School of Hard Knocks, but I know my Economics like he does. Also, does it make you or its proponent any better than anyone else here just because he authored you call a "theory"?

8. If you are not prepared to follow these tips on how to analyze Hyperwage Theory, then it is better if you do not waste your valuable time in this forum.

This is not your forum. I abide by the forum rules and no other. So don't require me to follow any steps. I told you that I am familiar with this "theory" as much as I am familiar with Marx's, Rand's, Hegel's theories/economic discourses/socio-economic treatises which, by the way, are certified by academicians and experts in this field.

9. As always, in any decent conversation, avoid hate, personal. disparaging remarks. Look at the idea, not the person.

Did I...? To argue against a theory or to dismiss its claims is never in any dictionary's definition to mean hate or indecency. If I did, you must have read me wrong...my apologies but my position stays.

10. If you don't believe in Hyperwage Theory, it is better to create your own theory on how to make poverty history in Africa, Asia and other Third World countries.

Why do I have to reinvent the wheel? As I have said: If ain't broke don't fix it. Finally, I don't need to invent a theory to change the world or to help impoverished nations. I only need to reach out to them -- as simple as that

[brownprose]

What purchasing power for an ordinary man? Do the minimum wage earner have this? Even a 12,000 monthly earning is never enough to rent a decent house, send kids to school, put up a savings, altogether.

Put simply- have you read the entire book?

If you haven't, then there is nothing that we should argue here.

I don't mean to argue...I mean to posit a contrary view to what has been presented as a "theory."
There is also this legal dictum "onus probandi" or the burden of proof lies upon the one who alleges/proposes. If you're an advocate of hyperwage, why don't you put your views here than insist to everyone to read the book. You can start with one key point of the theory then will go from there, or you may consider creating a separate thread for that.

Also, this is a forum for everybody. So nobody cares if they have/haven't read your books. All I'm saying is that -- don't expect anyone here to agree/believe with what you or that guy named "Bungoton" say. All ideas here are subject to scrutiny ... no such thing as gods here by virtue of your IQ, credentials or the books you authored...especially in this forum.

About that 12K thing...why don't you just lower prices for them to buy more with less -- simple as that and no need of that bloody hyperwage.

[al1974]

let me ask you. since you are proposing to lower the prices...if you are a businessman, which is easier- to lower prices or increase wages of your employees?