Sola Scriptura

[Malic]

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I see.

latria, dulia,hyperdulia I see no difference, just a play of words and definitions.

why do i say that? because in practice they are all the same.

Did Jesus(peace be upon him) practice veneration? Did Paul practice veneration? Jesus is the Son of God(according to your tradition),in other words HE saw the Father's face but did he carved it on stones and demanded latria from the followers? NO.

The christian church became powerful at some time and because of its power people w/ pagan orientation came to the church for protection and somehow along the way pagan practices where incorporated in the church.

I can give a list of catholic traditions w/c have its origin from paganism. And i think that image veneration is one o them,you can never find a law in the bible that approves image veneration.

In my opinion this tradition contradicts the Scripture, so w/c one should catholics follow?

[bcasabee]

Worship and veneration are two different things and we Catholics follow the leadership of the Pope.

Its like this.
Bible = the final reference.
Pope = the final interpreter of the reference. So even if in my opinion, a Pope erred in his decision, I will accept his decision as true because I recognized him as the authority. Besides, I am in no position to oppose him since I am not in the position to interpret the Bible anyway.

[rcruman]

Worship and veneration are two different things and we Catholics follow the leadership of the Pope.

Its like this.
Bible = the final reference.
Pope = the final interpreter of the reference. So even if in my opinion, a Pope erred in his decision, I will accept his decision as true because I recognized him as the authority. Besides, I am in no position to oppose him since I am not in the position to interpret the Bible anyway.

so meaning there's an authority to interpret the bible?
DID JESUS CHRIST said this in HIs GOSPLE that we should or some should interpret HIS WORDS?

its easy to claim any position but to prove it its questionable.
As you've claimed that the POPE is the final interpreter or the authority to interpret how come the bible didn't ever mentioned that its should be interpreted in fact its prohibited in the bible to interpret the bible (not to lean on our own understanding).

But how come ONE OF YOUR PREVIOUS POPE burn the bible manuscript?


PEace!

[Malic]

Worship and veneration are two different things and we Catholics follow the leadership of the Pope.

Its like this.
Bible = the final reference.
Pope = the final interpreter of the reference. So even if in my opinion, a Pope erred in his decision, I will accept his decision as true because I recognized him as the authority. Besides, I am in no position to oppose him since I am not in the position to interpret the Bible anyway.

Sir image veneration obviously is not found in the pages of the bible by word and example.

so bahala na mo contradict ang tradition sa scripture basta sulti sa Pope. Thats the danger of not considering Sola Scriptura.


Worship and veneration by definition are two different things BUT by practice its all the same.

[bcasabee]

It may or may not be found, but my Catholic faith believes in the authority of the Pope. So if the Pope allows this, so this is just fine for me. So this saves me the trouble of scanning hundreds or thousands of pages just to disprove your claim.

Sir image veneration obviously is not found in the pages of the bible by word and example.

Yes, the Pope has the final authority and I believe, all our tradition doesn't contradict the Bible. If the traditions cannot be found in the Bible, then logically it can't contradict cause how can it contradict when there is nothing to contradict in the first place. And the real danger of Sola Scriptura is extremism.

so bahala na mo contradict ang tradition sa scripture basta sulti sa Pope. Thats the danger of not considering Sola Scriptura.

Anyway, I can't force you our position bro. Its like, you can't judge the book by its cover. You may see people kneeling in front of holy images, but the essence is not the thing that you see, but that thing that is at the people's heart.

Worship and veneration by definition are two different things BUT by practice its all the same.

[botslob]

ang sola scriptura wa ra ba na sa bibliya. wa gyud kay makita nga bersikolo kabahin sa sola scriptura.

[Malic]

It may or may not be found, but my Catholic faith believes in the authority of the Pope. So if the Pope allows this, so this is just fine for me. So this saves me the trouble of scanning hundreds or thousands of pages just to disprove your claim.


Yes, the Pope has the final authority and I believe, all our tradition doesn't contradict the Bible. If the traditions cannot be found in the Bible, then logically it can't contradict cause how can it contradict when there is nothing to contradict in the first place. And the real danger of Sola Scriptura is extremism.


Anyway, I can't force you our position bro. Its like, you can't judge the book by its cover. You may see people kneeling in front of holy images, but the essence is not the thing that you see, but that thing that is at the people's heart.

So the Pope is Higher than the bible? Why not trouble yourself,thats God's word to you correct?

I agree that not all catholic traditions are in conflict with the bible.

But this one sir is in the bible, it is not allowed to give any veneration to any saints or images.

Maybe Sola Scriptura can lean to extremism.

Sure sir we cant judge those people who are kneeling,we cant even tell if they are really doing worship or veneration,thats the danger.

anyways i have given my point of view, now its time to keep silent and wait for other's opinion.

thank you sir for responding. May Al'lah the most merciful and gracious gives you peace and success.

[necrotic freak]

@Malic

is it true the muslims also have a devotion to the Virgin Mary?

[bcasabee]

Yeah, you got a point regarding doing something to understand the word of God. But the Church has already done this thing for almost 2000 years, there is no reason for me to duplicate their work. And if given that the Catholic Church is wrong, what Christian church do you think I will join next? Remember, there are thousands of them. I don't think my lifetime would be enough to scrutinized each of them just know which church has the real truth. Besides none of the other Christian churches claims authority over the Bible, so that settles the issue for me.

To put it properly, it is the Church which is higher than the Bible. The Bible was created for the Church and not the Church was created for the Bible. Jesus Christ built a church and not a Bible.
Jesus Christ is the head of the whole Church, so it is only logical that the Church is higher than the Bible.

So the Pope is Higher than the bible? Why not trouble yourself,thats God's word to you correct?

Yes, I myself has read something about it in the Bible. But that too is subject to interpretation because it is not presented in black and white by the Bible.
Anyway, try to read this link. This article presents a highly intellectual discussion regarding veneration of saints and images.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Veneration of Images

But this one sir is in the bible, it is not allowed to give any veneration to any saints or images.

No problem.

anyways i have given my point of view, now its time to keep silent and wait for other's opinion.

thank you sir for responding. May Al'lah the most merciful and gracious gives you peace and success.

[vanjhnn]

Yeah, you got a point regarding doing something to understand the word of God. But the Church has already done this thing for almost 2000 years, there is no reason for me to duplicate their work. And if given that the Catholic Church is wrong, what Christian church do you think I will join next? Remember, there are thousands of them. I don't think my lifetime would be enough to scrutinized each of them just know which church has the real truth. Besides none of the other Christian churches claims authority over the Bible, so that settles the issue for me.

To put it properly, it is the Church which is higher than the Bible. The Bible was created for the Church and not the Church was created for the Bible. Jesus Christ built a church and not a Bible.
Jesus Christ is the head of the whole Church, so it is only logical that the Church is higher than the Bible.


Yes, I myself has read something about it in the Bible. But that too is subject to interpretation because it is not presented in black and white by the Bible.
Anyway, try to read this link. This article presents a highly intellectual discussion regarding veneration of saints and images.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Veneration of Images



No problem.

Wow, standing ovation for bro bcasabee.