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  1. #31

    Quote Originally Posted by rcruman View Post
    nya kung makahatag ko nimog verse nga si Jesus is the Rock, idol gihapon nimo si necrotic freak?

    bro when Christ came here on earth He didn't preach His ownself but rather preaching what the Gospel is and preaching how Great God the Father is.

    its a principle in the bible that you will say or preached things being instructed by one who sent you.

    God the Father sent Christ (so He will not preach for His own but for the Father).
    Christ sent Apostles and Holy Spirit( so they will preach things said from the one who sent them).


    Peace!
    what gospel?

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by necrotic freak View Post
    since you want everyone to visit your link. i will also copy n paste this link and let the people here decide for themselves.

    Look at the passage carefully:

    "And Jesus answered him, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter (Petros), and on this rock (petra) I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:16-18 RSV)

    To whom does Jesus actually give the name "rock"? Himself? No. Faith? No. He gave it to Simon Peter, just as Jesus had promised earlier:

    "Jesus looked at him, and said, 'So, you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas' (which means Peter). (John 1:42 RSV)

    Jesus gives the new name to "you" (singular pronoun): that is, Simon Peter. And He continues, "you (singular pronoun) are Rock".

    Certainly there are other passages that describe Christ as "rock", but these are different passages and different contexts. Further, Jesus is not the only individual Scripture calls "rock". What about Abraham? Scripture quotes God Himself referring to Abraham as "rock"…

    Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock [whence] ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit [whence] ye are digged. Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah [that] bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him. (Isaiah 51:1-2 KJV)

    Obviously this does not contradict passages that call Christ "rock", nor does it mean that Abraham is Christ. Metaphors are used in various contexts in different ways, and the application of the metaphor "rock" to Abraham clearly does not prevent its subsequent application to Jesus or Simon Peter in a different sense and a different context. To argue otherwise is to weave an uneven fabric of passages related merely by their usage of the word "rock", ignoring their different contexts.

    Rejecting Peter as "rock" because Christ is "Rock" is a mistake, and requires denying the plain and correct meaning of this unambiguous passage.

    In verse 18 Jesus clearly names Simon Peter as "rock". Jesus then expands the metaphor by presenting Himself as the divine builder, Who has designated the foundation upon which He chooses to build His Church. Note that in this metaphor, Jesus is the architect and builder, not the foundation. Just as the Lord "digged" His people from the rock of Abraham, who became "father of many nations" (Genesis 17:5), so also the Lord founded His Church upon the foundation rock of Simon Peter. Do we claim that Peter is equal to Christ, or that Peter is a perfect man, or that he made himself the Rock? Of course not. We simply recognize that Jesus gave Peter a unique and foundational role essential to the structure of the Church.

    Jesus gave Peter the authority and assistance to shepherd the Church in right teaching and holy discipline. Therefore,

    ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; (Ephesians 2:19-20 KJV)
    bro you didn't really understand verse 18 of Matthew 16.

    The Rock there is Christ because the one who is speaking is God the Father unto Peter.
    because its not said "Peter upon YOU, I will build my Church".

    ANything Christ said is not His own words but rather He is just a conveyor or speaker in behalf of GOD.
    So Its GOD pointing to Christ as Rock to Peter.



    49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
    John 12:49


    Christ is really the Rock:

    4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
    1 Corinthians 10:4

    and Peter means small stone and you can't build literally a church upon a stone much more in spiritually.

    Peace!

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblazer 2.1 View Post
    what gospel?
    16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
    Romans 1:16


    8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

    9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

    Galatians 1:8-9


    peace!

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by rcruman View Post
    nya kung makahatag ko nimog verse nga si Jesus is the Rock, idol gihapon nimo si necrotic freak?

    bro when Christ came here on earth He didn't preach His ownself but rather preaching what the Gospel is and preaching how Great God the Father is.

    its a principle in the bible that you will say or preached things being instructed by one who sent you.

    God the Father sent Christ (so He will not preach for His own but for the Father).
    Christ sent Apostles and Holy Spirit( so they will preach things said from the one who sent them).


    Peace!
    What is your point? I am asking how did you come to the conclusion that Christ meant Himself as the rock?

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by rcruman View Post
    bro you didn't really understand verse 18 of Matthew 16.

    The Rock there is Christ because the one who is speaking is God the Father unto Peter.
    because its not said "Peter upon YOU, I will build my Church".

    ANything Christ said is not His own words but rather He is just a conveyor or speaker in behalf of GOD.
    So Its GOD pointing to Christ as Rock to Peter.



    49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
    John 12:49


    Christ is really the Rock:

    4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
    1 Corinthians 10:4

    and Peter means small stone and you can't build literally a church upon a stone much more in spiritually.

    Peace!
    Then why did Jesus name Peter a rock? Kay feel lang niya? Kay gahi ug ulo si Pedro? And why did Jesus hand over the keys? dili kaha na related sa building a church? And why did Jesus check and double check sa Love ni Peter ni Jesus? Why did Jesus say Peter has authority to bound things here on earth and on heaven?

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by vanjhnn View Post
    What is your point? I am asking how did you come to the conclusion that Christ meant Himself as the rock?
    Words that Come out from the mouth of Christ is from GOD.
    So on that situation in matthew 16:18 its God the Father who is pointing to Jesus Christ as the Rock that is the foundation of the Church.


    and most of all its not my conclusion bro, its the verses of the bible.
    I supported my statement with the verses of the bible.
    My statement is taken from the verses of the bible and not my conclusion.


    Peace!

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by vanjhnn View Post
    Then why did Jesus name Peter a rock? Kay feel lang niya? Kay gahi ug ulo si Pedro? And why did Jesus hand over the keys? dili kaha na related sa building a church? And why did Jesus check and double check sa Love ni Peter ni Jesus? Why did Jesus say Peter has authority to bound things here on earth and on heaven?
    Its a fact that in early times or during their time People are called according to their physical appearance or characteristics like Maria meaning beautiful, Esau meaning hairy, Isaac meaning laugh/joy, Christ meaning mediator.

    Are you sure its Peter who is given the key?

    Peace!

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by rcruman View Post
    Words that Come out from the mouth of Christ is from GOD.
    So on that situation in matthew 16:18 its God the Father who is pointing to Jesus Christ as the Rock that is the foundation of the Church.


    and most of all its not my conclusion bro, its the verses of the bible.
    I supported my statement with the verses of the bible.
    My statement is taken from the verses of the bible and not my conclusion.


    Peace!
    Jesus said a Church to be built on the rock..You concluded that that rock is Jesus. How so. elaborate cuz you still haven't elaborated the statement.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by vanjhnn View Post
    Jesus said a Church to be built on the rock..You concluded that that rock is Jesus. How so. elaborate cuz you still haven't elaborated the statement.
    bro read again John 12:49 and it will answer your querry.
    I didn't concluded it, its clear that its said "UPON THIS ROCK" not "Upon you Peter".


    Peace!

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by rcruman View Post
    bro read again John 12:49 and it will answer your querry.
    I didn't concluded it, its clear that its said "UPON THIS ROCK" not "Upon you Peter".


    Peace!
    UPON THIS ROCK. Not UPON ME.

    Read again bro. The whole time, who did Jesus just call a rock.
    Why did Jesus call Peter a rock?

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