Everything about : RH Bill ( Reproductive Health Bill)

[wng]

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Every mouth we have to feed also comes with two hands that can work. More people means more production, mass markets, mass production, and more efficient distribution of resources. Translating small-scale economics to large-scale economies is an OVERSIMPLIFICATION and is simply false. Population growth normally results in a growing economy. Population stagnation (and depopulation) eventually results in economic stagnation.

Poverty has very little to do with population. Study after studty has shown that the real causes of poverty are bad governance (massive corruption, economic mismanagement, and indiscriminate debt servicing). Apparently, however, people don't even look at the evidence. They just shoot their mouhts off.

All of the others here can see the evidence ourselves. I don't know why you can't. Read the news: Newsbreak Online - GMA's population policy lacks political will—Fidel Ramos
If our future lies with those street children you see everywhere and that you are betting on them for our economic future, we are going to be an economic basket case.

By the way, the bill is ANTI-LIFE and should be identified as such. It is actually pro-abortion because promotes abortifacient contraceptives and an attitude that will encourage abortion.

There is no solid evidence with regards to pills or IUDs being abortifacient. Lots of doctors cannot confirm for sure that implantation failure is higher for those with pills compared to no pills. However, my own opinion is that it is not abortifacient in the absence of really comprehensive studies. Also, reason I have this belief is that I believe couples should have access to IVF which the church also opposes. For the church, IVF is also abortifacient but my own opinion is how can it be considered abortion when everyone is trying desperately to implant the embryo.

Our population growth rate has been dropping like a rock. Even the NSO's own figures show this (and the NSO is not a Church-run or pro-life organization).

Population growth is decreasing but so is the whole world's. And not like a rock! Our population is still among the highest. Birth rate as well! Even population growth rate is among the world's highest! The only reason population growth is much lower than the birth rate is our VERY HIGH immigration rate. Everyone's leaving because there is massive unemployment. I don't need to provide statistics or links for this. Most people can see it themselves here in the Philippines. If you need links, just google it and you see countless articles.


What everyone must remember is that this bill is for married couples as much as it is for adolescents. I do not see any problems with married couple using condoms, pills, IUDs, etc. In fact, majority of users of pills are married women who already had children. So with IUD. And vasectomy and ligation are almost exclusively done on parents. I don't buy the promiscuity argument on married couple. And I don't even know why the Catholic church is against even ligation or vasectomy. If properly trained, no health worker in their right mind will be performing these outright on any teenager. So what's the deal of lumping all contraceptive methods as promoting promiscuity and abortion. Well, as much as a pregnancy may be unplanned or unwanted, I have not heard of any married couple here in the Philippines ever having an abortion because the contraceptive method failed! And yes, the NFP method fails again and again. So much for that "you must know her well" crap. And that lie about promoting commitment and fidelity. Every woman knows some of them have irregular periods and it's just impossible to forecast.

We need a true education and an honest/balanced look at this problem. In any good *** education, it is taught that abstinence is the best method and that pre-marital *** is wrong. Other contraceptive methods are also taught. A good teacher will also fully inform that other methods are considered abortifacient by some people while considered OK by some.

What really disgusts me about what is happening now is the CBCP and other "Catholics" are issuing statements that are very inaccurate. POPULATION-PHILIPPINES: Catholic Church Damns The Pill Why can't they just preach and express their views. Also minimize on those lies. Lying is after all against God, against Jesus Christ, and against the Catholic church.

As for that strongly pious health worker who refuse to dispense condoms. Quit your job and go to the convent. If not, find another job. The Catholic church says there are many jobs for the many people we have anyway. You know what? Discrimination aside, you don't get a Muslim cook so he/she can cook your favorite pork dishes.

[johnny22aa]

Every mouth we have to feed also comes with two hands that can work. More people means more production, mass markets, mass production, and more efficient distribution of resources. Translating small-scale economics to large-scale economies is an OVERSIMPLIFICATION and is simply false. Population growth normally results in a growing economy. Population stagnation (and depopulation) eventually results in economic stagnation.

Poverty has very little to do with population. Study after studty has shown that the real causes of poverty are bad governance (massive corruption, economic mismanagement, and indiscriminate debt servicing). Apparently, however, people don't even look at the evidence. They just shoot their mouhts off.

By the way, the bill is ANTI-LIFE and should be identified as such. It is actually pro-abortion because promotes abortifacient contraceptives and an attitude that will encourage abortion. Atty. Jose C. Sison points this out in his column "A bishop's courageous stand" (July 18, 2008, Philippine Star):

It has been repeatedly pointed out by medical tests and actual experience,
especially in the USA, where the powerful International Groups pushing for
this bill are based (Planned Parenthood, UNFPA), that some of these
contraceptives cause abortion. The IUD prevents a fertilized egg -- "a new
little human being" -- from implanting in the uterine wall. The pill does
not always stop ovulation but sometimes prevents implantation of the
growing embryo. The new RU 486 pill works altogether by aborting a new
fetus, a new baby.

But the greater evil here is that contraceptives whether causing abortion
or not, are directly linked to abortion. "A society in which
contraceptives are widely used is going to have a very difficult time
keeping free of abortions since the lifestyles and attitudes that
contraception fosters, create an alleged need for abortion" (Janet Smith,
The Connection between Contraception and Abortion). In the same article,
Ms. Smith, an associate professor at Dallas State University, even quoted
the US Supreme Court in the case of Planned Parenthood vs. Casey, thus:
"The intimate relationships facilitated by contraceptives are what make
abortions necessary. Intimate here is a euphemism and a misleading one at
that. Here the word intimate means sexual; it does not mean loving and
close. Abortion is most often the result of sexual relationships in which
there is little true intimacy and love, in which there is no room for a
baby, the natural consequence of sexual intercourse. Contraception enables
those who are not prepared to care for babies, to engage in sexual
intercourse; when they become pregnant, they resent the unborn child for
intruding itself upon their lives and they turn to the solution of
abortion".

Population control is deadly and a total waste of resources.

Our population growth rate has been dropping like a rock. Even the NSO's own figures show this (and the NSO is not a Church-run or pro-life organization): Here is what it said in the 2007 Census of Population (emphasis added):

The 2007 and 2000 census figures translated into an average annual population growth rate of 2.04 percent for the period 2000 to 2007. As shown below, it was the lowest annual population growth rate recorded for the Philippines since the 1960s.

-----------------------------------------
Reference       Average Annual Population
Period          Growth Rate
-----------------------------------------
2000-2007       2.04
1990-2000       2.34
1980-1990       2.35
1970-1980       2.75
1960-1970       3.01
-----------------------------------------

The projected average annual population growth rate for the period 2005 to 2010 was 1.95 percent. This projection was based on the 2000 Census of Population and Housing.

We don't need population control at all. What we need is conversion and political/economic reform.

Now let me respond to some othjer errors posted earlier.



You haven't been reading the evidence and the posts. Contraceptives encourage promiscuous behavior and lead to even more contraceptive failures. Then population controllers will call for abortion as a remedy. This has happened in most countries where there is widespread contraception. The US is a prime example: Americans have contraceptives available everywhere, yet the demand for abortion is still high. Obviously, contraceptives don't really prevent unwanted pregnancies. In fact, they INCREASE the likelihood of it because of the behavior it encourages.



This should be obvious. NFP will not work in casual relationships. You have to be committed and know your spouse well for it to work. Artificial contraceptives, on the other hand, are precisely designed for casual relationships and encourage casual ***. You don't need commitment to use them (although they fail often).



Get the facts straight, please. The regular pill and mini-pill have the same main active ingredient: progestin. The regular pill fails to prevent ovulation 2%-10% of the time, and also causes a hostile endometrium. This prevents implantation of the fertilized egg, which is a newly-concieved human being. This eventually causes destruction of the baby since it will have nowhere to implant. The difference is that the mini-pill is progestin-only (lacks other ingredient of the regular pill) and allows ovulation 40%-60% of the time. Thus it has a higher failure rate. But both have the same abortifacient effect.)



You seem to forget that what almost all religions are against is MURDER (killing the innocent), but they also recognize that you can kill in a JUST WAR and in SELF-DEFENSE. Your analogy is therefore wrong.

You also forget that the law allows conscinetious objectors to refrain from engaging in war. The bill, however, does not make any real room for conscientious objectors. At least in war, conscientious objectors can choose to perform community service, which is NOT the same as coooperating in war. The bill, howevere, does not even allow that. It forces them to refer patients to anopther person who will do the dirty deed. It forces them therefore to cooperate in the evil and as such is against religious freedom.

of course bro, by just feeling the way you post is like ur a machine, a non-sense one. laliman ba kag is just so easy and insensitive for you to tell someone he's ANTI-LIFE. and u based more on the data that you studied and u knew on the books im sure wa juy ky nasabtan aning wat its signficance to us. ka klaro na anang naay family with at least 6 or more children w/ the parents are earning below what they should be. and it's happening everywhere here, as in bisan asa jud. suwayi ad2 lug depressed area. try to talk to our marginalized workers here. u think OVERSIMPLIFICATION pa na. il say it 2 u again nga this is happening to tens of millions of us.

You keep on mentioning nga poverty KUNO is has no connection at all sa overpopulation. simple nga butang, explainan tkaw. let's put it a fact sa atong government situation karon nga they could hardly serve all of us because of their inefficiency. that's true. but how much more if we are raising our today's children w/ neglect, no education, malnutrition, poor health & sanitation, inadequate shelter & parental care just because simply for the reason nga ang family's resources wla na bahin ug tarong ky daghan kaayo clag anak. u think kaning klaseng mga bataa mulambo ni? lambo jud kaayo ni sa rugby, sa limos, sa mga snatcher dha sa kilid2x. and musamot jud tag kalambo along w/ bangladesh, myanmar, afghanistan, zimbabwe. and imagine na lng 60% of our countrymen is living this way (that's below poverty threshold level). tan awa kuno unsa nay mahitabo sa pilipinas kung ul have MORE this kind of people living with u (AS IN FIVE TIMES) in the next 20 to 30 years. and w/ this kind of people, naa pa tay angay nga tao ibutang sa gobyerno at that time?

im not saying bro nga with this bill becoming to a law would solve poverty. overpopulation is only ONE factor. d jud mabahin ang tanan resources, be it sa family or sa government kung daghan jud mo. simple ra kaayo na nga logic. as what u read sa post earlier. ang pizza (medium size) to a family of four, mas busog ug lipay tanan. but a pizza (also medium size) to a family of 8 or 10, u already know the answer for this. kadaghan pa kaayog tukion wat would solve poverty, kana imong gi mention nga bad governance (massive corruption, economic mismanagement, and indiscriminate debt servicing), these are also one of the factors for poverty. at least kung mo control and eventually ma solve na nato ang overpopulation, then mao nang its time to look on the other factors so that poverty would now be minimized.

You said this mao zedong principle nga "Every mouth we have to feed also comes with two hands that can work". Literally, kung way utok ug way feelings ang tao, u think these 2 hands can work productively and w/ quality? of course, these 2 hands still needs a food to take bisan wla clay output, or if naay output, tingi2x ra pud. isn't this already a parasitic attitude like what's happening to millions of us here? hahai. wa ba kbaw how was china under his rule? how was china during the cultural revolution? suggest nako try to read world history before posting it here under the banner of population control. mao btaw nang daghan insik nanghawa dd2 & they were immigrating here (my angkong is one of them), sa malaysia, indonesia, singapore, the rest of asia & the world ky juy ayo intawn dd2. his rule had one of the worst number of deaths in modern chinese history because of famine, poverty, violence etc. nya the present chinese gov't already made ways to let chinese people forget & learn the lessons of these haunting period of their history. nya tuga2x kag introduce ani nga prinsipyo dri sa Pilipinas? ambot lng jud nimo dodong. if in case kuwang pa ni, here's more. tungod sa ilang overpopulation, dba if wa ka kbaw, the chinese gov't made a radical & very strict population control called "ONE CHILD POLICY"? im sure u heard this. il let u go on w/ ur objective talents and research abilities what was the effect on this sa chinese people now. so ganahan ka ma ing ani ang pilipinas dodong? ambot lng jud tawn nimo oi.

il tel u agen bro na we should refrain ourselves from using the word ANTI-LIFE to people who are againts w/ this bill. lets learn to respect one another here. ky its not easy to let others label you like that. ky ako pabor jud ko ani nga bill, that means kontra nko sa akong own kinabuhi? kontra nko sa kinabuhi sa kong mga ginikanan? akong igsoon? akong maasawa? akong mga anak in the future? KINABUHI NIMO? agen, where's the logic here? u said it's anti life KUNO ky it promotes abortion. i and the rest of those who are in favor of this bill will say nga NOT ALL BIRTH CONTROL PILLS ARE ABORTIFICIENT. so they just prevent the egg cell nga mo touch sa sperm cell. they just change & alter the way female *** hormones (like progesterone, estrogen) works in the menstrual cycle. in the end WALAY fertilization mahitabo. ambot lng unsa nay nka anti-life ani nga wa man gali LIFE naporma ky wa guy new organism ang nahimo. MAG ANTI2X na nuon ka dha. again, ambot lng jud nimo dodong.

and speaking about contraceptives as immoral like condoms, i think this would be a personal issue rather than considering it as a national interest. ky wa jud koy nakit an immoral on humans wanting to have *** anytime. again, with our basic instinct to express our libidinal urge so that we can gratify ourselves, thereby becoming more productive, more happy, in the end, a better Filipino. that's why we need an education, a formal one (this is part of the bill, btw), about *** especially sa minors nga promiscuous pa jud ni cla. simple ra kaayo na oi. u can only talk immorality if u think u are one, like u r so dreadful to you own existence. that's why it's so easy & so effortless for you to label dreadful things to your fellow human beings.

cge, sayop diay ko nga population growth was increasing. in fact it was decreasing diay. but this is worlwide. but still, we still have the highest population growth compared to other nations. and you think we are unique? we are different? we are special and something to be proud of on this? ambot lng dodong. i no longer have anything to say on this.

again bro, i challenge you to speak w/ ur own sensibilities and feelings about this issue before posting objective details that's really so boring & so machine-like to read. coz what i feel right now is we really need this bill, ASAP. we need to support Rep. Garin and co. on her move to pass this into law, by hook or by crook.

another thing, about a bishop taking a courageous stand on this issue. ambot lng jud wat kind of courage are you talking about? u think mga pari they still need courage to speak any issue here nga datu ug influential naman gali ni cla here in the 3rd worlds (of course, they're not dat influential sa 1st worlds, yet datu ghpon cla)? nga nobraan naman gali na ilang courage nga manghilabot na cla sa mga state issues. kbaw na bya ta unsa na ka grabe mkaimpluwensya ilang pastoral letter. but they still keep on being blind about the separation of church & state in the guise of "the name of God and courage" by meddling ug pag apil2x nga wa ra jud clay labot in the 1st place. u think this is very courageous compared to the people of the congress who enacted, supported, defended and are willing to sacrifice about this bill especially when they are not aligned and kontra w/ the most powerful institution next sa atong government? think again brader.

[digitalsuperman]

kaning simbahan maayo rani sila magsige ug oppose ug ingon ana..kay dili man sila ang mag antos kung mudaghan ang mga tawo ang gobyerno man.. mas pabor pud ang simbahan kung daghan tawo kay daghan man mu amot simbahan kanang inig kolekta na.. wala nay ayo atong separation of church and government.. then ang gobyerno pa control pud sa simbahan..ang mga kadaghanan sa mga tawo kay magsige nalang agad sa simbahan.pastilan.

overpopulation is the main cause nganong naa tay kanang rice crisis issue or food crisis.. actually para nako wala man gyud rice shortage.its just that there are more mouths to feed..stable ang production sa rice pero ang ang mga baba nga paka-unon dili stable kay nagkadaghan.mawa..

[666satan]

i think boss dugay naman ning rice shortage and other issues..to cover up Presidents wrong doing...like sa kang lozada..ako naglagot pd ko niya...ky he make it worst ang problem...ato sa tan.awon ang mga factors kung maka benefit pd ta ani...sa church dli bya sila makatabang sa poverty..sige lang sila og comments about sa ani nga bill..I think we work as one...dli ky mag sige lang ta og kontra...

[crimzonsoul]

Statistics aside, whatever happened to the rule of Separation of Church and State?

"Earlier, Cebu Archdiocesan media liaison officer Msgr. Achilles Dakay and Ozamiz Archbishop Jesus Dosado urged legislators supporting the reproductive health bills to listen to their conscience and refrain from receiving communion."

I was really pissed of when I read the article posted in this thread. Why would the church deny Holy Communion to those who support the bill? Is it because they see those law makers as "sinners" who have committed Mortal sin? If the Holy Eucharist were only for the sinless, how many do you think will be queing the ails during Communion? Would the Church deny the Body of Christ to those who want to receive him into their life just because they have sinned and are considered by the Church as not worthy to receive the Holy Body?


Look around us, our population is growing in leaps and bounds that our economy...no, our planet is at the verge of self destruction. What has the Church done to help solve the problem. Instead of looking at the so called mistakes of the people who are trying to solve the problem, why won't they do something themselves to help in the solution of the problem.

The standards of morality have changed throughout time, the Church I understand under the current Pope's regime is a conservative church. But the problems during the Middle ages are not the problems that we are facing today. Back then, they didn't have population problems, they didn't have a deteriorating environment, they had longer lives compared to Modern man. What was best during those times might not be the best solution right now.

“That’s the problem with them (legislators), they talk about legality and we are talking about morality,” said Vidal."

It's what is called as Separation of the Church and State. Law isn't necessarily Morale because law does not recognize religion. It is suppose to be cold and impartial. The church talks about morality precisely because it is their domain. Leave law making to the lawmakers. Right now, we have real problems that need to be solve. Speculations about the future will have to be solve when they arrive. One problem at a time.

[peewee_toot]

family planning?

the people have the ryt to know.

bsta dli lng gd mo katas og kinabuhi ky paits na au na.

[digitalsuperman]

i think boss dugay naman ning rice shortage and other issues..to cover up Presidents wrong doing...like sa kang lozada..ako naglagot pd ko niya...ky he make it worst ang problem...ato sa tan.awon ang mga factors kung maka benefit pd ta ani...sa church dli bya sila makatabang sa poverty..sige lang sila og comments about sa ani nga bill..I think we work as one...dli ky mag sige lang ta og kontra...

i think you missed my point. wala man ko ni kontra.in fact in favor man ko ani na bill and i don't care about lozada's publicity stunt.

the point of my previous statement is that dili unta manghilabot ang simbahan. ngano sila ang magproblema kung mudaghan ang tawo sa pilipinas? kinsa raman ang mag antos ang gobyerno raman ug ang mga tawo mismo. hayahay manang simbahan kay bisag unsa ka pobre ang tawo muhatag man gyud na sa ilang buyot2x..
pabor mana nila nga dako ang populasyon kay kada adlaw naay bunyag then daku income ilang mga pari...
naa pa gani toy balita nga giistoryahan sa mga pari ang katong naghimo ani na bill. although istorya rana ug naa rana sa tawo ang desisyon, wala gyud unta sila manghilabot.

[blaire123]

@digitalsuperman..........may tama ka..... hehehheh

lisud mn gud ug mo dghan ta pag maau kay mo dghan ang pobre..... tsk tsk tsk....ang datu mo samot ka datu!!! ang pobre wa nlng kwenta!! mo samot ka pobre!!!! *sigh* ai ang simbahan naa mn jud na comment sa tanan butang....asta pamulitika usahay mag apil2x pud sila......unsay kaha gusto nila sa?? mag sige nlng increase a2 population?............hmmmmmmm......

[crimzonsoul]

mao..instead of fighting why not find their own means of solving the problem. I think the church has the means of promoting their own kind of Family planning. They don't have to fight or accuse the government of being immoral, basically because the government should not be based on the morality of one particular religion.

The church has the resources...they should learn to channel their own resources. The church keeps on helping the poor by providing them food, clothing and even shelter. But those are only temporary things. What the people need are jobs to provide continuous support for food, clothing and shelter. But with the big population, even if the world birth rate is decreasing, we still have one of the biggest birth rate and we are faced with that problem.

[giddyboy]

this is a good bill. i don't see it as anti-life.