Originally Posted by
pal
How will this affect in our relationship with God if we believe or not?
Para nako, good question ni that touches the subtle aspects of one's relationship with God. Nice one, pal.
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Dili baya lalim mag-imagine aning infinite, pareho aning Ginoo. Dungagan pa gyud ug "usa ra ni siya, pero tulo". Makalibog na hinoon. Pero, mada baya - sa magkugi.
Tingali ang disadvantage aning Trinity kay lisod sabton (o kaha dili masabtan, kay misteryo man kuno). Pwera ani, pagtuo man gihapon ni sa Ginoo. Kung sa pagtuo lang, pagtuo ra ni gihapon. Pero, kung sa pagsabot lang, ambot nato, hehehe.
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Ang disadvantage sa lisod sabton kay mas lisod pud ma-appreciate. For example, kaning mga kanta. Kanang nga kanta nga maka-relate ta, lalum ang atong appreciation, kumpara sa kanang mga ganahan ra ta. Makahilak pa man gani usahay. Another example, kaning Math. Kanang mga dili ganahan ug Math, kay malamang sila pud ning galisod ug sabot ani. Ikumpara nato ni sa mga tawong maayo ug Math. Malamang ganahan sila ug Math.
Ang impact aning kalisod sa Trinity, kay it will lessen one's feeling of closeness with God or one's personal relationship with God, tungod lang kay mas lisod maka-relate. Kanang mga mas nakasabot (o humble ba gyud), kay malamang pud, mas lalom ilang feelings or personal relationship with God. Ako ning opinyon.
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Tingali, ang tendency sa uban kay i-condemn ang Trinity. Pero, sa ako lang, unsay may mabuhat nimo para mas masabtan ang Trinity o ang Ginoo, kung puro condemn ra ka? Di ba, dili siya makatabang para mas maklaro o para mas mulalum atong pagsabot niya?
Mao na, sa akong tanaw, mas maayo gyud na sabton na lang ning Trinity, kaysa manghagit pa o unsa pa man.
Mas maayo sigurong sulayan na lang ug sabot ang Trinity, maski lisod pa ni.
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Step 1 - Mangita ug clue sa Bible
Para nako, ang clue naa sa John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning...
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Step 2 - Investigation of the original Greek text, using a little hermeneutics, or perhaps, more accurately, a little philology
Ang Word gikan ni sa Greek para sa Logos. Ang logos kay daghan ni siyang manga meaning, ug dili lang pulong:
Its semantic field extends beyond "word" to notions such as "thought, speech, account, meaning, reason, proportion, principle, standard", or "logic".
[ Logos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]
Step 3 - Consider alternative meanings to Word, until it makes (more) sense
Diretso na ta sa meaning nga "thought".
1 In the beginning was the Thought, and the Thought was with God, and the Thought was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning...
14 The Thought became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Para nako, mas naay sense.
Step 4 - Add logic and other things one may have known, read, or heard
1) If God is the original existence, and he is infinite (encompassing all), how is possible for him to "act" "outside of himself," when such "outside of himself" does not exist? Thus, his "domain of action" has to be "inside of himself". And the closest analogy we have to that is the process of thinking or the initiation of the creation of thoughts (although, we should be careful in making any analogy concerning God, since none of us are capable of truly comprehending him, since we are finite beings, while he is infinite; at best, we hope to gain some understanding as best as we possibly can).
2) If his "domain of action" is the "initiation of thoughts or thinking", then creation itself has to be through his "thoughts". Thus, everything are his active "thoughts".
3) In the beginning, there was only God. What or who would he probably think or consider then? Most probably, it would be himself.
I think that if God has power over himself, then he has the option to choose if a thought of his becomes part of creation of not. Therefore, there has to be a second step before a thought of his becomes part of creation. This may be called (at least in this text) the process of "willing into existence". Thus, creation = thought + willing into existence.
4) If his first thought or comtemplation was himself, his first creation might as well be himself.
Thus, it is possible for this same infinite and unseen God to be "manifest" in his own creation (or world of thoughts), simply by thinking of himself (or conceiving of himself) + willing this thought of himself into existense.
5) Since there was as first, there has to be succeding ones. Thus after "creating himself" or perhaps, more accurately, "defining himself", he proceeded with the rest of creation.
Step 5 - Reconstruction or Reconsideration
1 In the beginning was the Thought, and the Thought was with God, and the Thought was God.
Sa sinugdanan, gahuna-huna ang Ginoo (o paghunahuna ra ang iyahang paglihok), ug ang iyang unang gihuna-huna kay ang iyang kaugalingon.
Ang "with God", pwedeng maingong pud na "within God", sama sa mga huna-huna nato na nasa sulod ra pud nato.
2 He was with God in the beginning...
Kani, gihimo na sa Ginoo ang iyang paghuna-huna sa iyang kaugalingon ug mao ni siya ang iyang unang gihimo.
14 The Thought became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
Si Hesus ang kaning huna-hunang hinimo sa Ginoo nga mao siya mismo.
We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Kani medyo makalibog, pero dili nato mabasol si John ug kita pud tanan kay dili man gyud maingong dali.
"He came from the Father" does not mean God can not think of himself, and make himself part of his own world of thoughts or creation.
Step 6 - Attempt to solve the Trinity
1) God the Father is God as himself.
2) God the Son is the Logos or God's thought of himself that he willed into existence to be (the first) part of his own (sustained or i.e. permanent) world of thoughts or creation. Maybe he chose to do this so that finite beings like us may be able to better relate to thim through this seemingly "finite form".
When the Logos became man, he is known to us as Jesus (Emmanuel).
3) If the Logos as Jesus (Emmanuel) is seemingly finite, that is, he is "manifestly a body" like one of us humans, how is if possible for him to remain God? This is possible, I think, through a bit of equation:
Scope of Creation = Scope of Jesus (Emmanuel) or Logos as a seemingly finite form + Scope as an unmanifest existence acting throughout creation (like in the nature of an emanation or aura)
Sometimes, Jesus is referred to as the Central Spiritual Sun, with the imagery of him as the center of all creation, and the light radiating outwards from him filling the entire creation.
This "emanation" from him has to be the Holy Spirit.
Step 7 - Consolidate or Summarize (to also check against other texts)
In analogy to light (God), which is white, as it passes through a prism (Creation), we have a spectrum of colors (Logos + Holy Spirit).
Thus, the Trinity is not God = Father + Son + Holy Spirit, but rather, it is more like:
God as himself, independent of creation -> Son + Holy Spirit within the context of creation.
There is not enough time now (nor space) to compare this with all the other possible texts in the Bible to relate it with, but I would like to touch briefly the puzzle of why Jesus has to pray to himself and other similarly seemingly baffling activities - acting like the Father was another person.
First off, it may be a simple as - he wants to set an example - for us to follow (since he is leader too).
Secondly, if one may be familiar with the occult and similar fields, prayer is an act of communion, that is to attune with the divine. As Jesus living on Earth, the part of him that was pure God was his spirit within him (we, on the other hand, have our spirits from God, not God himself, hence we are "sons (and daughters) of God" only, not God himself; though our fullest potentials are unimaginable being his children). His soul and body has yet to win the battle of completely spiritualizing these (another topic), which he won after his death on the cross ("there is no greater love than to give up one's life for a friend"). Thus, in the meantime, like us, he has to pray and obey (his own commandment of love). His goal as a human is also our goal. He made is "easier" for us, having won it himself and initiated our education.
For example, the intense prayer, more like a struggle, he had in the garden of Gethsemane. He "bargained" (part of the process of change) with the Father, if this (bitter) cup (of wine = love or loving acts) may pass over him. But, as much as his intellect would want to avoid it, his conscience (putting it in human terms) or the will of the Father (literally God within him) will have nothing of it. Sensing that this desire to avoid the crucifixion (ultimate example of love) is not the will of the Father (love) or against his conscience (putting it in humans terms), he finally accepted this fate. In summary, he examined his innermost (to us the conscience, to him God literally) to come up with a decision he had initial difficulty with.
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Just my two centavos worth.
? does it mean that Jesus Christ is the Father and the Father is Jesus Christ
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