Is Evolutionist Science worth believing?

[SPIKE_CSA]

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Ei, Spike, as we those who believe in the Theory of Evolution is concerned, this discussion is a not that fair.

Why is it that only we are those who are going to prove our point?

Why not you - who dont believe in the theory - prove your own point?

And mind you, you cant prove a point just be debunking the opposite's point.

We prove our point. PROVE YOUR'S TOO!

Alel

correction! you havent prove your point yet... again pls answer my two questions as best as you can..

[Mr.Ho_chia]

Who said we came from apes?

All the theory implies is that we came from the same upbringings as the modern day apes.

Alel

the same upbringing? which is? can you be more specific?[br]Posted on: March 16, 2008, 10:30:15 PM_________________________________________________

Ei, Spike, as we those who believe in the Theory of Evolution is concerned, this discussion is a not that fair.

Why is it that only we are those who are going to prove our point?

Why not you - who dont believe in the theory - prove your own point?

And mind you, you cant prove a point just be debunking the opposite's point.

We prove our point. PROVE YOUR'S TOO!

Alel

Maybe because the burden of proof is on the affirmative.

[brown_dog]

Language

Children as young as seven months can understand and learn grammatical rules.a Furthermore, studies of 36 documented cases of children raised without human contact (feral children) show that language is learned only from other humans; humans do not automatically speak. So, the first humans must have been endowed with a language ability. There is no evidence language evolved.b

Nonhumans communicate, but not with language. True language requires both vocabulary and grammar. With great effort, human trainers have taught some chimpanzees and gorillas to recognize a few hundred spoken words, to point to up to 200 symbols, and to make limited hand signs. These impressive feats are sometimes exaggerated by editing the animals’ successes on film. (Some early demonstrations were flawed by the trainer’s hidden promptings.c)

Wild apes have not shown these vocabulary skills, and trained apes do not pass their vocabulary on to others. When a trained animal dies, so does the trainer’s investment. Also, trained apes have essentially no grammatical ability. Only with grammar can a few words express many ideas. No known evidence shows that language exists or evolves in nonhumans, but all known human groups have language.d

Furthermore, only humans have different modes of language: speaking/hearing, writing/reading, signing, touch (as with braille), and tapping (as with Morse code or tap-codes used by prisoners). When one mode is prevented, as with the loss of hearing, others can be used.e

If language evolved, the earliest languages should be the simplest. But language studies show that the more ancient the language (for example: Latin, 200 B.C.; Greek, 800 B.C.; Linear B, 1200 B.C., and Vedic Sanskrit, 1500 B.C.), the more complex it is with respect to syntax, case, gender, mood, voice, tense, verb form, and inflection. The best evidence indicates that languages devolve; that is, they become simpler instead of more complex.f Most linguists reject the idea that simple languages evolve into complex languages.

If humans evolved, then so did language. Because all available evidence indicates that language did not evolve, then humans probably did not evolve.

Compatible Senders and Receivers

As explained above, only intelligence creates codes, programs, and information (CP&I). Each involves senders and receivers. Senders and receivers can be people, animals, plants, organs, cells, or some molecules. (The DNA molecule is a prolific sender.) The CP&I in a message must be understandable and sufficiently beneficial to both sender and receiver, otherwise the effort expended in transmitting and receiving messages (written, chemical, electrical, magnetic, visual, and auditory) will be wasted.

Consider the astronomical number of links (message channels) that exist between potential senders and receivers: from the cellular level to complete organisms, from bananas to bacteria to babies, and across all of time since life began. All must have compatible understandings (CP&I) and equipment (matter and energy). Designing compatibilities of this magnitude requires one or more superintelligences. Furthermore, these superintelligence(s) must completely understand how matter and energy behave over time. In other words, the superintelligence(s) must have made, or at least mastered, the laws of chemistry and physics wherever senders and receivers are found. The simplest, most parsimonious way to integrate all of life is for there to be only one superintelligence.

Also, the sending and receiving equipment, including its energy sources, must be in place and functional before communication begins. But the preexisting equipment provides no benefit until useful messages begin arriving. Therefore, intelligent foresight (planning) is mandatory—something nature cannot do.

Out of Place Fossils

Frequently, fossils are not vertically sequenced in the assumed evolutionary order.a For example, in Uzbekistan, 86 consecutive hoofprints of horses were found in rocks dating back to the dinosaurs.b Hoofprints of some other animal are alongside 1,000 dinosaur footprints in Virginia.c A leading authority on the Grand Canyon published photographs of horselike hoofprints visible in rocks that, according to the theory of evolution, predate hoofed animals by more than a 100 million years.d Dinosaur and humanlike footprints were found together in Turkmenistane and Arizona.f Sometimes, land animals, flying animals, and marine animals are fossilized side-by-side in the same rock.g Dinosaur, whale, elephant, horse, and other fossils, plus crude human tools, have reportedly been found in phosphate beds in South Carolina.h Coal beds contain round, black lumps called coal balls, some of which contain flowering plants that allegedly evolved 100 million years after the coal bed was formed.i In the Grand Canyon, in Venezuela, in Kashmir, and in Guyana, spores of ferns and pollen from flowering plants are found in Cambrianj rocks—rocks supposedly deposited before flowering plants evolved. Pollen has also been found in Precambriank rocks deposited before life allegedly evolved.

Petrified trees in Arizona’s petrified forest contain fossilized nests of bees and cocoons of wasps. The petrified forests are reputedly 220 million years old, while bees (and flowering plants which bees require) supposedly evolved almost a 100 million years later.l Pollinating insects and fossil flies, with long, well-developed tubes for sucking nectar from flowers, are dated 25 million years before flowers are assumed to have evolved.m Most evolutionists and textbooks systematically ignore discoveries which conflict with the evolutionary time scale.

Ape-Men?

For over a century, studies of skulls and teeth have produced unreliable conclusions about man’s origin.a Also, fossil evidence allegedly supporting human evolution is fragmentary and open to other interpretations. Fossil evidence showing the evolution of chimpanzees, supposedly the closest living relative to humans, is nonexistent.b

Stories claiming that fossils of primitive, apelike men have been found are overstated.c

* It is now universally acknowledged that Piltdown “man” was a hoax, and yet it was in textbooks for more than 40 years.d
* Before 1977, evidence for Ramapithecus was a mere handful of teeth and jaw fragments. We now know these fragments were pieced together incorrectly by Louis Leakeye and others in a form resembling part of the human jaw.f Ramapithecus was just an ape.g [See Figure 13.]
* The only remains of Nebraska “man” turned out to be a pig’s tooth. [See Figure 14.]
* Forty years after he discovered Java “man,” Eugene Dubois conceded that it was not a man, but was similar to a large gibbon (an ape). In citing evidence to support this new conclusion, Dubois admitted that he had withheld parts of four other thigh bones of apes found in the same area.h
* Many experts consider the skulls of Peking “man” to be the remains of apes that were systematically decapitated and exploited for food by true man.i Its classification, Homo erectus, is considered by most experts to be a category that should never have been created.j
* The first confirmed limb bones of Homo habilis were discovered in 1986. They showed that this animal clearly had apelike proportionsk and should never have been classified as manlike (Homo).l
* The australopithecines, made famous by Louis and Mary Leakey, are quite distinct from humans. Several detailed computer studies of australopithecines have shown that their bodily proportions were not intermediate between man and living apes.m Another study of their inner ear bones, used to maintain balance, showed a striking similarity with those of chimpanzees and gorillas, but great differences with those of humans.n Likewise, their pattern of dental development corresponds to chimpanzees, not humans.o One australopithecine fossil—a 31/2-foot-tall, long-armed, 60-pound adult called Lucy—was initially presented as evidence that all australopithecines walked upright in a human manner. However, studies of Lucy’s entire anatomy, not just a knee joint, now show that this is very unlikely. She probably swung from the treesp and was similar to pygmy chimpanzees.q The australopithecines are probably extinct apes.r
* For about 100 years the world was led to believe that Neanderthal man was stooped and apelike. This false idea was based upon some Neanderthals with bone diseases such as arthritis and rickets.s Recent dental and x-ray studies of Neanderthals suggest that they were humans who matured at a slower rate and lived to be much older than people today.t Neanderthal man, Heidelberg man, and Cro-Magnon man are now considered completely human. Artists’ drawings of “ape-men,” especially their fleshy portions, are often quite imaginative and are not supported by the evidence.u

Fossil Man

Bones of many modern-looking humans have been found deep in undisturbed rocks that, according to evolution, were formed long before man began to evolve. Examples include the Calaveras skull,a the Castenedolo skeletons,b Reck’s skeleton,c and others.d Remains, such as the Swanscombe skull, the Steinheim fossil, and the Vertesszöllos fossil, present similar problems.e Evolutionists almost always ignore these remains.

[Alel]

correction! you havent prove your point yet... again pls answer my two questions as best as you can..

I have posted my answers.

There is no one who should go first. We go together.

the same upbringing? which is? can you be more specific?[br]

It started from the Propliopithecus and the Dryopithecus. The early Primates.

And then many sub-species budded. All of them have co-existed. ( Like today, we humans co-existed with other remaining primates like the monkeys.)

Then, Some survived through time. Some did not.

And lucky are we clever humans - along with our close relatives - the Chimpanzees and other apes, we are among those who survived.

Maybe because the burden of proof is on the affirmative.

Maybe. But it is not.

Since you spoke of the burden of proof, can you state what the proofs are? Its your's and your buddies' chance to present a proof for your views.

Burden of proof then. Proofs. Do you mind stating what they are?

Geez. If the burden of proof is on the affirmative, Then explaining it is a piece of cake for you. Go ahead. Take a shot.


Alel

[Mr.Ho_chia]

Dryopithecus was a genus of apes that is known from localities ranging from Eastern Africa into Eurasia. It lived during the Upper[verification needed] Miocene period, from 12 to 9 million years ago, and probably includes the common ancestor of the lesser apes (gibbons and siamangs) and the great apes.

Propliopithecus is an extinct genus of ape.
The 40 cm (1 ft 4 in) long creature resembled today's gibbons. Gibbons are the small apes in the family Hylobatidae.


[img width=500 height=375]http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb57/hochia/800px-Weisshandgibbon_tierpark_berl.jpg[/img]

[Alel]

Dryopithecus was a genus of apes that is known from localities ranging from Eastern Africa into Eurasia. It lived during the Upper[verification needed] Miocene period, from 12 to 9 million years ago, and probably includes the common ancestor of the lesser apes (gibbons and siamangs) and the great apes.

Propliopithecus is an extinct genus of ape.
The 40 cm (1 ft 4 in) long creature resembled today's gibbons. Gibbons are the small apes in the family Hylobatidae.


[/img]

And we can be traced back to them.

And by the way, you got the wrong pictures. They are extinct even before cameras were invented. No way you can give a photo of the real one.


Alel

[Mr.Ho_chia]

yah. Burden of proof is off your shoulders now, I can see your explanation very well. by the way gibbons which resemble evolution ancestors (in the pic) are still much around, they forgot to evolve lucky us we didn't.

those are gibbons(pic), it resembles your ancestors.


Maybe you can plot that trace you are so convince about. from those apes until the first human came to be. arun mas klaro ba.
who knows you might convince the pope.

[Alel]

yah. Burden of proof is off your shoulders now, I can see your explanation very well. by the way gibbons which resemble evolution ancestors (in the pic) are still much around, they forgot to evolve lucky us we didn't.

those are gibbons(pic), it resembles your ancestors.


Maybe you can plot that trace you are so convince about. from those apes until the first human came to be. arun mas klaro ba.
who knows you might convince the pope.

Hehehehehe!

Do you depend on what the Pope think is true or not?

I dont care what the Pope think about evolution. He is wise in his own right. I respect him. May I be a Christian or not, I appreicate his will to lead a collosal church.

But for me, no one can nudge me to believe something when those who are trying to convince dont present even a single proof.


Alel

[Oakboy]

@oakboy ug sa tanang mga evolutionists

aron ta mahuman ug dali.. ug aron wala nay daghan nga pasikot sikot

tubaga ni ninyo:

1. Is there a way nowadays or even before that for entirely a new genetic information to be added to a genome?

2. Can you prove it here that, the very single-celled organism posses ALL THE GENETIC INFORMATION for a human in order for humans to have ultimately evolved from a primitive single-celled organism?


hala tubaga na ninyo.. ug naa moy matubag nga sakto kay tagaan ta mo ug piso hehehe

una ko mo tubag tubaga sa akong mga pangutana..ika duha dili ko evolutionist..mao nani ron maynaman pagkabali nyor! nahimo naman hinuon ko nga evolutionist hahaha! tubaga ang pangutana para ma suta nato og claro "ang insik mahimong negro through time" gikan gyudna sa imong alimpatakan og sa imong mga kamot sa pagdokdok nianang tubaga..wala raba kai pruweba anang insik mamahimong negro..sa imo pang previous post naabot ka og "crossbreed" nangita ka og lusot mo layo manta anang crossbreeding sa topic..focus ta sa discussion evolution o' creation gi unsa pag sugod og ka mugna ang mga tawo ayaw na anang crossbreed later part nana, ayaw libogo imong utok..

[Mr.Ho_chia]

Hehehehehe!

Do you depend on what the Pope think is true or not?

I dont care what the Pope think about evolution. He is wise in his own right. I respect him. May I be a Christian or not, I appreicate his will to lead a collosal church.

But for me, no one can nudge me to believe something when those who are trying to convince dont present even a single proof.


Alel

well said. same here.

and by the way, what made you think i want to convince you? forgive me but can you point to any of my post that suggest I am convincing you.