Imperial manila hinders Cebu economic growth

[yhokz101]

<yellotards spotted> .. fire in the hole!

[Joseph20102011]

Why expound IRA? it doesnt even support your argument. In fact it just show that govt money also past through municipalities not just mainly to NCR/Imperial Manila. That discrepancies in income and IRA allotment was possible cause of a centralized govt, if we were decentralized then they will have to be contented only with their income.

But Region III, NCR, and CALABARZON receive the money the most under the current system of 60/40 revenue sharing between national and local governments being having the relatively large land area and most populated area in the country. That IRA setup should be abolished if we adopt federal system.

One thing that our country never push through is economic reform, foreign investment is restricted to what the Constitution states. We should open up the economy first than changing our govt set-up.
True in federalism each state can craft their own laws but again every state must abide to what the constitution states. Not many foreign investor favors the 60-40 limitation. Its still futile if were a federal states and yet our constitution is not investment friendly.

I have noting to oppose what your saying because federalism won't work without economic autonomy within regions and giving them economic autonomy means removing foreign investment restrictions in the national constitution and let the congress determine investment restrictions through legislated laws. I am in fact for the principle of national treatment where a foreign investor should enjoy what local investor can enjoy like 100% ownership of businesses and lands. If we adopt federal form of government, regions would compete each other of attracting foreign investments for their regions. If we remain with the unitary form of government while removing the foreign investment restrictions at the same time, only Manila and Cebu would enjoy billions of dollars of foreign direct investments because these locations already have foreign MNCs operating and no motivation to expand operations to poor areas of the country.

There are other means to improve our current system to the benefit of the local govt unit.
1. scrap pork barrel - would lead to more allocation to different LGU.
2. improve state own corporation or set up more - imagine if our GOCC is as productive as what we see in China, we could have a monstrous growth.
e.g setting up more Malampaya like projects esp 100% govt own, we could be racking in billions.
3. raising salary to what Manila rate right now, would improve tax collection but at a price of inflation, as business owners will compensate to rising labor costs.
4. legalizing jueteng the poor rural areas loves jueteng. LGU will benefit from the profit lmao.
5. electing officials esp higher heads of govt sympathetic to the city/municipality/province/region.
6. etc

I agree with most except the second because the government should not be anymore a player but instead a referee especially in energy industry. GOCCs are usually bloated businesses compared with privately-owned ones because government would hire someone to work in GOCCs based on political connections instead of merits. Privately-owned companies would not simply do that because it would affect profits if not meritorious person runs a company while GOCCs never aim for profit.

Let us put things into perspective i think you are missing out the bigger picture and my point. And since none of here knows the real peso costs of a change of govt, let me speculate...

Im sure you heard about the news about BBL, and it says.. it will take 75B on the first year alone just to make the Bangsamoro region into a sub state. Now imagine how much billions would it take to establish a federal state, Im pretty sure 100B is not enough per state and you multiply it to the number of states they are proposing.
Where will we get that lump sum of money ? ? should we drive our country to a massive debt in the first year ? is that the price of progress ?

In the first place, Bangsamoro is to be allocated with 75 billion on the first year not because they cannot survive in their own in the short-run but because it is the only region that asks for that enhanced autonomy, thus it is inevitable that Bangsamoro will be allocated with such huge amount to survive in the short run, had there were other regions asking for BBL-like proposal, then the allocation for Bangsamoro would have been smaller. BBL simply open the cans for the regions to ask bulks of money from the national government just to be self-sufficient. Had we adopted the federal form long time ago, that would not have happened anymore.

Second, how about the cost of running things per State ? Like I said its cheaper if we had a centralized govt; cause we only maintain 1-- SC, BIR, every department heads etc on our capital. Compared to a federal style of govt/decentralized every state must be independent have their own SC, maintain their own department heads, maintain State troopers and disaster response etc. Its very costly Infrastructure lang daan.

Being cheap or expensive is not the issue but representation and cultural preservation under the umbrella of the Philippine state is the main issue for federalism. It is much better for the regions to be financially independent from the central government because a financially strong region will be the anchor from any intrusion from the central government of Manila. What's the use of having a cheaper form of governance if regions are being financially or culturally depressed by the central government of Manila? I do not trust with Manila anymore of handling my tax money. I rather have my tax money be spend to my region which is Central Visayas.

Going back to my question.. how can a poor state/province maintain those infrastructures and agencies and running it; if in the first place if limited ilang income ? kutob lang na sila dawat ug 100B+ to setup their state without or a little means of earning back the investment costs ?

They could sustain it if we give them a fiscal autonomy like imposing regional-wide tax rates on businesses and they could sustain it if they have a freedom to attract foreign investments to invest in their respective regions and these foreign businesses would be the source of regional revenue through taxation.

I know whats ARMM, BBL and the Constitution amendment needed to make BBL possible.
I will just point out that many countries with federal setup are prone to civil unrest like Iraq, Israel, Eastern European nations, etc.
My main concern is if Bangsamoro region will be given autonomy or federal state, what makes you think that they will also push for greater autonomy by creating an independent state ?

The reason on why Iraq was given a federal form of government was because the previous unitary form under Saddam killed lives of the majority Shias or his own kind, the Kurds in order to accommodate the minority Sunnis. Israel is in chaos for many years because Palestines want their own sovereign state and Israel is not even a federal one but unitary. Chaos in Eastern Europe especially in Ukraine has something to do with the NATO expansion to Russian borders by the United States that irritates Russia because Russia still consider Eastern Europe as part of their sphere of influence. These chaos have noting to do with federalism. The proponents of Bangsamoro only ask for enhanced autonomy not total independence. MILF or MNLF nowadays prefer autonomy rather than total independence from the Philippine state.

I think its impossible ma maintain na ang Sharia Law will be for Muslim only eventually Christian will try to follow it or be force to leave the Bangsamoro State. Same as what the OFWs experience in country with Sharia Law. Christian women will be force to wear head cover, and then more things will follow.
If not then then Moro may push for cessation just to uphold totally the Sharia Law.

Muslim Mindanao is much tolerant on Christians and Lumads compared with fundamentalist Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia. Muslim Mindanao is much in common with Indonesia and Malaysia in terms of cultural and religious values compared with Saudi Arabia. This scenario of violence in Mindanao will continue unless we the majority Christians understand the sentiments of minority Muslims.

[Apollo24]

mao lagi ning problem sa mga abnoy supporter oi. always talking about the PAST ( gma ) and FUTURE ( binay or whoever ) ... it's not the PRESENT ( abnoy ) ... wala man gani nahimu si abnoy sa corruption karon.

Mas Abnoy ka kung present lang ang imong gitan-aw Bro... Mura kag kabayo sa Duljo na 1 ra ang makita.... We've learned from the past ang look forward for the Future..... Don't let History to repeat by itself..... Di na natuto....

[Apollo24]

Lisod man gyud ka kasabot as proven palang sa other thread. ultimo graph di pa ka analyze, lalison pa gyud.

Ang thread adto was based on GDP not TYPE of GOVT and PROSPERITY. Of course GDP data varies naa gyud comparison, nagmention ba diay ta sa type of government didto, diba wala ? but for the record pareho lang man centralized and govt sa Philippines ug Thailand. Nabiyaan lang gyud ta paingkod ni Penoy

Naglibog ko sa imo rply Bro Meo.... ingon pa intsik: Daghan istorya, Daghan Sayop... Unsa man na Graph imo gipasabot, ang Graph ni aeRLO na ASEAN Graph... na data kutob sa 2012 din gi imagine ug exaggerated na kay kutob 2017 ang Graph....

Ngano man d.i sa time gi GMA ka Level ta sa Thailand? ayaw tawn PASAGAD dre kay maulaw ta sa Madlang people.....
(Since Pinoy jud Nabiyaan ta sa Thailand, Pagtsure diha... mao bitaw na boring ko sa Thread ni Pinoy kay Hapit nalang asta mamatay ang inyong iro ipasangil nnyo kay Abnoy)..
Bisan ni nindot ang economy under ni Pnoy pero wala nato matamgam sa Visayas ug Mindanao kay Tagalog man...
So sunod eleksyon Bro Meo mosupurta ta ug Bisaya para makabawos ta....

[aenigma143]

Akong ikasulti sa mga YELLOW MINIONS...

[Apollo24]

Naa nasad ning mga ampaw nga sore looser suppoert ni Gibo ampaw teodoro ay di pa kadawat sa kapildihan til now,,lol
Always consider the president cannot run the goverment alone labi na sa mga classi sa mga two karon pakata lang ug speculate.

OT:
Hahahhaha.... Hapit nlang Bro hasta mamatay ang ilang iro, c Abnoy ra japon ang pasanginlan..... Dili nalng naman lang paabot sa Election hapit naman jud... ug Dapat atong hunanaon ni na Thread

• Imperial manila hinders Cebu economic growth...... ug mosuporta unta ta ug usa ka Bisaya.......

[Romeojin]

But Region III, NCR, and CALABARZON receive the money the most under the current system of 60/40 revenue sharing between national and local governments being having the relatively large land area and most populated area in the country. That IRA setup should be abolished if we adopt federal system.

I think IRA is good thing, considering theres room for expansion in their region therefore it must be given more fund to developed it. What good does a federal system do in such scenario, where they are force to work on their limited income. It takes money to make money and certainly businesses expands on densely populated area. What moves should this LGUs do, to secure investment and attract investors ? When theres no guarantee of success.

Ive been to countryside on different location in the Philippines year after year, there are many places with little progress; its not because of mainly political in nature, but rather few businessmen invest there cause of many factor like; they rather invest elsewhere; people there doesnt spend much; expensive to expand; etc. If you had franchise of shake here in Cebu you will profit, setup the same franchise elsewhere at the countryside I bet people will rather make their own shake

I have noting to oppose what your saying because federalism won't work without economic autonomy within regions and giving them economic autonomy means removing foreign investment restrictions in the national constitution and let the congress determine investment restrictions through legislated laws. I am in fact for the principle of national treatment where a foreign investor should enjoy what local investor can enjoy like 100% ownership of businesses and lands. If we adopt federal form of government, regions would compete each other of attracting foreign investments for their regions. If we remain with the unitary form of government while removing the foreign investment restrictions at the same time, only Manila and Cebu would enjoy billions of dollars of foreign direct investments because these locations already have foreign MNCs operating and no motivation to expand operations to poor areas of the country.

its still cheap amending the Constitution for economic gain rather than spending of Trillions of peso cause of a whim.
Tell me whats the guarantee of success ?

I agree with most except the second because the government should not be anymore a player but instead a referee especially in energy industry. GOCCs are usually bloated businesses compared with privately-owned ones because government would hire someone to work in GOCCs based on political connections instead of merits. Privately-owned companies would not simply do that because it would affect profits if not meritorious person runs a company while GOCCs never aim for profit.

my other suggestions are not open for discussion; OT na.

In the first place, Bangsamoro is to be allocated with 75 billion on the first year not because they cannot survive in their own in the short-run but because it is the only region that asks for that enhanced autonomy, thus it is inevitable that Bangsamoro will be allocated with such huge amount to survive in the short run, had there were other regions asking for BBL-like proposal, then the allocation for Bangsamoro would have been smaller. BBL simply open the cans for the regions to ask bulks of money from the national government just to be self-sufficient. Had we adopted the federal form long time ago, that would not have happened anymore.

They are also asking 70B in the next year how much billions more they have to ask in the succeeding years. I think if the national govt spend it elsewhere like in Cebu, the money would have double in 3yrs time. Same as why NCR is so important to invest on, cause the politicians knows its where big income; high ROI will be.

The past is the past; yet the first obstacle to switch to a federal govt is funding, where will we get that? we are talking perhaps 300B for the first 1-3yrs for each State.

Being cheap or expensive is not the issue but representation and cultural preservation under the umbrella of the Philippine state is the main issue for federalism. It is much better for the regions to be financially independent from the central government because a financially strong region will be the anchor from any intrusion from the central government of Manila. What's the use of having a cheaper form of governance if regions are being financially or culturally depressed by the central government of Manila? I do not trust with Manila anymore of handling my tax money. I rather have my tax money be spend to my region which is Central Visayas.

So you want poor States to maintain salary of SC justices, Department chiefs, commissioners et al; maintain infrastructure; to run their federal State, the same amount of money being paid by the Rich States will also paid by these Poor States... isnt that a financial burden just by running a federal State. Theres redundancy with federalism, unlike our current system we share these
departments/agency/SC etc.

In the US, there is such thing as GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN and it happen in many occasions due to lack of fund. I dont see why it wont happen to us if we push for federalism, we only have a meager budget compare to the US. And our first move is to take out a massive loan to setup a federal govt.

They could sustain it if we give them a fiscal autonomy like imposing regional-wide tax rates on businesses and they could sustain it if they have a freedom to attract foreign investments to invest in their respective regions and these foreign businesses would be the source of regional revenue through taxation.

this is wishful thinking. Investors will flock to big cities wherein infrastructure, labor force, consumers etc. There are places arent ideal. Poor states cannot compete with rich states and also be financially burden running their federal govt.

The reason on why Iraq was given a federal form of government was because the previous unitary form under Saddam killed lives of the majority Shias or his own kind, the Kurds in order to accommodate the minority Sunnis. Israel is in chaos for many years because Palestines want their own sovereign state and Israel is not even a federal one but unitary. Chaos in Eastern Europe especially in Ukraine has something to do with the NATO expansion to Russian borders by the United States that irritates Russia because Russia still consider Eastern Europe as part of their sphere of influence. These chaos have noting to do with federalism. The proponents of Bangsamoro only ask for enhanced autonomy not total independence. MILF or MNLF nowadays prefer autonomy rather than total independence from the Philippine state.

1. Iraq is divided into 3 cause Shias, Sunnis and Kurds wont get along under one country. Its like Moro wont unite under one country.
2. By book Israel is unitary but Palestine is part of Israel and self governing so hence Israel is decentralized.
3. In some decentralized Eastern European nation, it isnt just external factors but rather people within that nation willing to break away or be part of other country... NATO, RUSSIA etc cannot take over a territory without the blessing of its populace cause that would count as an invasion.

I dont see why some of these, wont be applicable to Bangsamoro. We lost Sabah due to majority of people's choice. If we give them the means of autonomy there will be chance they will declare independence either by force or referendum. Theres no guarantee ma stop ang unrest even they what they want.

Muslim Mindanao is much tolerant on Christians and Lumads compared with fundamentalist Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia. Muslim Mindanao is much in common with Indonesia and Malaysia in terms of cultural and religious values compared with Saudi Arabia. This scenario of violence in Mindanao will continue unless we the majority Christians understand the sentiments of minority Muslims.

So we just keep submitting to their demands? at the cost of our soldiers life. I doubt you had been there in Mindanao, thats why many people esp Christian will keep voting for Erap in Mindanao cause they are afraid losing their lands. And there are many Christian community near or within Bangsamoro region. Its easy for you to say that they will be tolerant without having experience of these people. It isnt just the Muslims sentiments; there is also a Christian sentiment.

At certain point MILF had been labelled as a terrorist group, even now they are harboring terrorist. Thats why many people will never favor BBL.

[Romeojin]

Naglibog ko sa imo rply Bro Meo.... ingon pa intsik: Daghan istorya, Daghan Sayop... Unsa man na Graph imo gipasabot, ang Graph ni aeRLO na ASEAN Graph... na data kutob sa 2012 din gi imagine ug exaggerated na kay kutob 2017 ang Graph....

ikaw ra man libog2x sa imong kaugalingon. sayon ra man to sabton ang graph ni aerlo.

Ngano man d.i sa time gi GMA ka Level ta sa Thailand? ayaw tawn PASAGAD kay maulaw ta sa Madlang people.....
(Since Pinoy jud Nabiyaan ta sa Thailand, Pagtsure diha... mao bitaw na boring ko sa Thread ni Pinoy kay Hapit nalang asta mamatay ang inyong iro ipasangil nnyo kay Abnoy)..
Bisan ni nindot ang economy under ni Pnoy pero wala nato matamgam sa Visayas ug Mindanao kay Tagalog man...
So sunod eleksyon Bro Meo mosupurta ta ug Bisaya para makabawos ta....

wa ko nag-ingon ka level ta Thailand at GMA time, nag provide man gani ko graph on both countries. And since mo insist man gyud ka na i.compare ang performance ni Penoy and GMA; and since kaklaro na dili ta ka level sa Thailand base on GDP (6% sa thailand bigger than our 7%) dili pwede internal growth lang ang comparison misleading kaayo. The only reasonable way is to make Thailand GDP as a reference point kay pinaka close gyud ang Thailand sa ato economy.

Hence gi compute nato, ang GDP GAP during each president terms. Ang result less $100B ang GAP with GMA; and $115B with Penoy time... we lag +$15B on Penoy term despite Thailand facing calamities and unrest.

Basaha nalang didto.. kay na hijack na ang Thread dire. nag high level talk bya kami ni Joseph basin ma close ning thread.

[Apollo24]

ikaw ra man libog2x sa imong kaugalingon. sayon ra man to sabton ang graph ni aerlo.



wa ko nag-ingon ka level ta Thailand at GMA time, nag provide man gani ko graph on both countries.

Wala nako makasabot nimo Bro Meo....

Nabiyaan lang gyud ta paingkod ni Penoy

Hala sige Tungod nalng ni tanan ni Pinoy... mamatay inyon iro tungod gihapon na ni Pinoy... Move on nalang kaha Meo woi....

[Romeojin]

Wala nako makasabot nimo Bro Meo....



Hala sige Tungod nalng ni tanan ni Pinoy... mamatay inyon iro tungod gihapon na ni Pinoy... Move on nalang kaha Meo woi....

OT:

2 thread with little to do with Penoy.. himuon nimo Penoy thread. naay thread about niya di ka mo.post.

cge lang gihapon ka dumot nako.


Ciao... logout na me.