Evolution Original Sin and Everything in Between in Harmony?

[mr.ho_chia2]

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agree the world will definitely be a much much interesting, better, nicer place for those who don;t believe.

but for those who believe, heaven is a much more, well, it's the most wonderful place. a shift in investment is now on....... what is 50, 60 or 70 years of life compared to eternity says the believers.
well for the unbelievers 60, 70, or even a far fetched 80 is all too long to waste.......

Merry Christmas to all.......

[Chrysley]

Once again your words fail you. Heaven is the dream of the human mind. But even in dreams we do not find ourselves in emptiness or in heaven, but on earth, in the realm of reality; we only see real things in the entrancing splendor of imagination and caprice, instead of in the simple daylight of reality and necessity.

In the words of Sir Isaac Asmov:
"If I am right, then (religious fundamentalists) will not go to Heaven, because there is no Heaven. If they are right, then they will not go to Heaven, because they are hypocrites."

I say go to heaven for the climate, hell for the company!

[bcasabee]

In the realm of reality.
The phrase struck me actually. What's real anyway? Where is the man's consciousness located? Is it in the soul or in the brain? Has man a soul? Is soul part of the realm of material reaility as we thought it is? Where is the man's soul? Is it the brain itself? Is it at the center of the brain? When we feel pain or pleasure, love or hate, is it our soul which feel it or its just our brain?
If we say that all we are, are just material body? Then how sure are we that we perceive as real is what we thought is real? Who knows if our brain is just sitting somewhere in a bio-factory massively manufacturing brains and what we perceive right now is just part of a stress test process? We feel space and time but yet our brain was just connected to an electronic interface to a simulated virtual reality universe we know right now. Sounds possible? Why not, science is everything right?
But even so, what makes our brain work? is it really just the brain itself that make itself move, or is there something else, like a soul. Just like an electronic brain in a computer which cannot function without its operating system which in turn are just lines of code functioning as a "Soul to the machine".
If we have a soul, then what is a soul? What is its material composition? Is it just a text file containing instructions just like the computer's operating system? Is it matter with 3 dimensional chracteristics as we know it? Or is it something spirit-like which is part of the reality beyond our 5 senses can perceive?
Even the 5 senses are limiting our perceptions of what reality is. Imagine our brain/soul reconfigured, so that we can perceive the dimension of time, then our perception of reality will change cause we will be able to sense the past, present and future at will. And who knows for science sake, many more dimensions present in the true universe that we are not sensing. (FYI, radio signals such that we use to communicate is an entity having 4 dimensional properties, lenght, width, height, and guess what, time. Well there is no physical evidence that there are other universes with different dimensional characteristics exists, but mathematics says it must exist, the only reason we cant perceive it because we are only limited to our 5 senses).
I don't ask for answers to these questions actually.
Sometimes its nice to leave something as a mystery otherwise, the thrill and the suspense will be gone.
And so, as for me, if machines got a soul in a form of operating systems, then I believe I also got a soul. And when my body or brain expires, my creator will decide where I go, either with him or to the dump.

Once again your words fail you. Heaven is the dream of the human mind. But even in dreams we do not find ourselves in emptiness or in heaven, but on earth, in the realm of reality; we only see real things in the entrancing splendor of imagination and caprice, instead of in the simple daylight of reality and necessity.

In the words of Sir Isaac Asmov:
"If I am right, then (religious fundamentalists) will not go to Heaven, because there is no Heaven. If they are right, then they will not go to Heaven, because they are hypocrites."

I say go to heaven for the climate, hell for the company!

[rcruman]

see the problem is your hijacking this thread and turning it into a sunday school for non-believers.
you see, by faith alone you can believe in almost anything no matter how idiotic,crazy or stupid it may be. it works for you, but not to rational beings.
thats the problem about the topic of this thread also. they try to put the pieces together and add some science so they can sell their crap. now see what happens...they catn link the O'sin to adam.

So bro anti-christ you don't believed in spirit?
Does everything to you can be proven by physical?

Peace!

[Chrysley]

In the realm of reality.
The phrase struck me actually. What's real anyway? Where is the man's consciousness located? Is it in the soul or in the brain? Has man a soul? Is soul part of the realm of material reaility as we thought it is? Where is the man's soul? Is it the brain itself? Is it at the center of the brain? When we feel pain or pleasure, love or hate, is it our soul which feel it or its just our brain?
If we say that all we are, are just material body? Then how sure are we that we perceive as real is what we thought is real? Who knows if our brain is just sitting somewhere in a bio-factory massively manufacturing brains and what we perceive right now is just part of a stress test process? We feel space and time but yet our brain was just connected to an electronic interface to a simulated virtual reality universe we know right now. Sounds possible? Why not, science is everything right?
But even so, what makes our brain work? is it really just the brain itself that make itself move, or is there something else, like a soul. Just like an electronic brain in a computer which cannot function without its operating system which in turn are just lines of code functioning as a "Soul to the machine".
If we have a soul, then what is a soul? What is its material composition? Is it just a text file containing instructions just like the computer's operating system? Is it matter with 3 dimensional chracteristics as we know it? Or is it something spirit-like which is part of the reality beyond our 5 senses can perceive?
I don't ask for answers to these questions actually.
Sometimes its nice to leave something as a mystery otherwise, the thrill and the suspense will be gone.
And so, as for me, if machines got a soul in a form of operating systems, then I believe I also got a soul. And when my body or brain expires, my creator will decide where I go, either with him or to the dump.

The spiritualist approach of things ("spirit can exist independently of matter", from where the notion of a more or less eternal soul, of a transcendent god) looks like a purely egocentric vision. World is seen from one’s self-consciousness, which defines itself as a spirit... Then, one's is the judge in one’s own case (spirit asking the question of spirit); consequently one’s is subjective, what can necessary lead to this impression that spirit is superior to matter. One only has to receive a blow on the head and to lose consciousness to be brought back to the hard reality of matter.

On the contrary, to be a materialist, it is to know how to consider the situation with detachment, to know how to forget one’s tiny being to observe the world. A more objective look that leads to a different conclusion.

[bcasabee]

What is to consider the situation with detachment means?
What is one's tiny being means?

On the contrary, to be a materialist, it is to know how to consider the situation with detachment, to know how to forget one’s tiny being to observe the world. A more objective look that leads to a different conclusion.

[Chrysley]

If you understood the previous paragraph, in relation the second shouldn't be any harder to grasp.

[bcasabee]

Sorry for being rude.

But let me elaborate my question:

You said:
On the contrary, to be a materialist, it is to know how to consider the situation with detachment, to know how to forget one’s tiny being to observe the world. A more objective look that leads to a different conclusion.

Question:
1. Detachment from what? referring to "consider the situation with detachment"

Just forget about the 2nd question, I get what it means, though I don't agree with it. I believe it depends on the situation, there are some situations where microscopic view is well suited, there are times that the macroscopic view is much better.

If you understood the previous paragraph, in relation the second shouldn't be any harder to grasp.

[Chrysley]

Sorry for being rude.

But let me elaborate my question:

You said:
On the contrary, to be a materialist, it is to know how to consider the situation with detachment, to know how to forget one’s tiny being to observe the world. A more objective look that leads to a different conclusion.

Question:
1. Detachment from what? referring to "consider the situation with detachment"

The way I used it gave the word detachment the power to express it's very own meaning, a state in which a person overcomes his or her attachment to desire for things, people or concepts of the world and thus attains a heightened perspective.

Just forget about the 2nd question, I get what it means, though I don't agree with it. I believe it depends on the situation, there are some situations where microscopic view is well suited, there are times that the macroscopic view is much better.

Ah yes... With which lies the foundation for the religious man's greatest trait. The ability to think only for themselves and of their salvation. "Screw the others, we're going to heaven!" "Hi! Let me preach you about my God so that I may go to heaven." "Oh... let me help you so that I may go to heaven." "I really really wanna go to heaven."

They try to evade the concept of an actual, real world with its liberating, expanding and beautifying possibilities, as against an unreal world, which, with its spirits, oracles, and mean contentment has kept humanity in helpless degradation.

[mr.ho_chia2]

Once again your words fail you. Heaven is the dream of the human mind. But even in dreams we do not find ourselves in emptiness or in heaven, but on earth, in the realm of reality; we only see real things in the entrancing splendor of imagination and caprice, instead of in the simple daylight of reality and necessity.

In the words of Sir Isaac Asmov:
"If I am right, then (religious fundamentalists) will not go to Heaven, because there is no Heaven. If they are right, then they will not go to Heaven, because they are hypocrites."

I say go to heaven for the climate, hell for the company!

I don't agree with you sir. It didn't fail me, it is my blessed assurance. Jesus is mine. what a wonderful Savior, glory divine. Heaven i say is just a bonus, a jackpot bonus if i may categorize. the real life changing experience for me is now, contentment, peace and Joy unspeakable. nindot ako feeling mangud sir. everything else mura it fell to its proper places, even how bad the situation is, i can rise above it. yes, i still commit mistakes, yes, i am affected as well, but in the end i always manage and see good things out of what seems to be really bad. speaking of contentment and peace there. nindot nga perspective and realization on my part and healthy as well in my psych.

and by the way, i don't object for a nice comfortable life while on earth, i know how to enjoy and pamper my family in an affordable luxury. in fact i love it. if you may allow me and modesty aside, i know what good taste is all about and its a lot here on earth that we so enjoy. GOD bless sir!