Malaysian passenger plane crashes in Ukraine near Russian border

[æRLO]

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Still too early to tell. I have read about those incidents in the past, it is not just isolated to Russia/USSR shooting down civilian planes but that's not the topic at hand.

Ukraine has a lot to gain in this incident while Russia has none but may have everything to lose. Ukraine will have to play on this momentum to their advantage while Russia will have to show restraint. It really looks like a false flag. But anyway, there is still more time to wait for answers.

AFAIK both sides can make gains. If Russia gets blamed, Ukraine gets support to quell the rebels that will be without Moscow's backing. If Ukraine gets blamed, Russia gets justification to go all the way into Kiev, without much repucussion from the international community. Also given the fact that its not the Russians getting blamed, but Pro-Russian separatists, so Russia doesn't really lose much face if they don't get the benefit of the incident. They can always say, if things don't pan out for them, that the rebels are acting independently or shot at the plane under their own discretion. Right now the game is all about causus belli.

[M.A.D.]

Weighing the circumstances, Russia only needs to show restraint. Ukraine needs this to push itself across the east, which is their ultimate goal. Ukraine is having a hard time and the support it is getting from EU and US isn't really what they expected. Seems like the EU and US is doing what the Saudis have been doing for a long time.

Russia will just wait it out and see if more oblasts attempt to free themselves from Kiev which is surprisingly happening.

It doesn't really help if the Russians did arm them with AA technology that can go beyond 32,000 feet besides their man portable AA which the rebels have been using. So far only Ukrainian jets and cargo planes have been downed since they mostly fly below that altitude.

The ukrainian army, on the other hand still has Soviet hand me downs which they inherited after the fall of the USSR, the only thing they lost was maybe some ships and all their nuclear weapons. Anyway, for the AAs, they may have deployed some of those batteries but it leads one to think why when the rebels don't have any aircraft.

AFAIK both sides can make gains. If Russia gets blamed, Ukraine gets support. If Ukraine gets blamed, Russia gets justification to go all the way into Kiev, without much repercussion from the international community. Also given the fact that its not the Russians getting blamed, but Pro-Russian separatists, so Russia doesn't really lose much face if they don't get the benefit of the incident. They can always say, things don't pan out for them, that the rebels are acting independently or shot in their own discretion.

[gargoyle]

The BUK missile system photographed in Torez hours before MH17 was downed

BUK missile launcher shown in Russian separatist stronghold before MH17 crash | Mail Online

Shortly before reports circulated about Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 having crashed near the Russian border, one of the more vocal leaders of the separatists, Igor Strelkov, had posted a comment on Russia's most popular social media site, that they had downed an Antonov-26 (AN-26)

The post was deleted shortly after the news of MH17
Pro-Russian Ukrainian rebel leader warned of flying over Ukraine air space - CBS News
Malaysia Airlines MH-17: Separatist Leader Boasted of Shooting Down 'Ukrainian Military Aircraft' near Torez : World : ChinaTopix.com

Even Russia's official news agency, ITAR-TASS, had posted a bulletin on its website Thursday, quoting separatist elements in Ukraine as saying they have shot down an AN-26 near Torez.
ITAR-TASS: World - Donetsk People

MH17 wasn't the only one flying over danger zone: 55 other aircraft also did on the same day.
Did MH17 pilot divert INTO the danger zone because he 'felt uncomfortable'? | Mail Online
Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'shot down' in Ukraine - as it happened | World news | theguardian.com

[Dorothea]

Hubby told me about this...since I don't really keep up with the news. My reaction was, "does this actually happen in real life?"...evidently these things do happen in real life. Abi man gud nako sa movies ra ni mahitabo ning ingon ani. But then I was reading this article the other day, nahitabo naman diay ning ingon ani several times before. As if I needed another reason to be scared of flying.

[reptoid]

Putin's mask has well and truly slipped. He can no longer pretend to be the responsible, ethical statesman he so desperately wanted us to believe. This dangerous man is clearly a relic from the Soviet era... Incognito troops, heavy weapons gifted to his homicidal militias and attempts to remove incriminating evidence. This incident will be a catalyst for solidarity in Europe and may just jolt ordinary Russians from sleeping-walking any further into totalitarianism.

[lespaulibanez]

What i don't understand is these -
- if the airspace above was within the conflict zone, why fly over it if there is potential risk for commercial planes?
Surely the risk would be coming from both the warring parties. MH was playing Russian Roulette!

How much would it cost extra for MH if flight MH17 was flown around and not over the war zone airspace?

Kaning mga common carriers naa man ni siguro sila Risk Assessment. How stupid it would be for a commercial place to fly over a war zone airspace. Even assuming nga mas taas pa gyud sila ug altitude nga dili maabot sa missile, unsa man kung naay emergency descent ug drift down samtang naa sila sa maong airspace?

[Zakary]

Opinion: How MH17 disaster backs Russia's Putin into a corner

Opinion: How MH17 disaster backs Russia's Putin into a corner - CNN.com

[MetalManiac]

Putin is in a bind he is under pressure now by the world for this monstrous atrocity committed by this rebels he is supporting ,now he will answer to the world

[godwhacker]

Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity

[flanker]

It seems a false flag though. Base on American media propaganda and the way their politicians points a finger without evidence. (I might say they became aviation expert overnight). Lol

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=y...&v=RMgIpC-bCfQ

Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity | Zero Hedge