The PH Catholic Church's best-kept secrets

[Hammer_and_Sickle]

hala noh?...

[Bears Grill]

Simply the church does not wish to become weak with it's stance,
for as per belief they are following the wishes of GOD,
they should be resolute becasue of the immense responsibility handed
over to them which is the salvation of the soul.

By the church's stance, you mean the Vatican's stance on condoms, right? Look, there are issues where you have to be resolute with your stance and there are issues where you reflect on the dogmas you've been indoctrinated with. Avoiding condoms is essential for the salvation of the soul? That dogma itself is questionable (if not laughable) amongst a large number of Catholics.

And then to claim that an institution knows the wishes of GOD is a huge claim...one that suggests arrogance rather than responsibility. It's giving oneself power to control people because it's saying "Do as I say because I know what God wants and He told me so, personally."

There should be no reactions for as always everyone are entitled
with invidual freedom to choose.

The statement is a bit incoherent (no offense), but I guess you mean we're entitled to our own opinion. I hope you do mean that. In a civilized discussion, ideas/actions can be criticized. But what tends to happen here is that the messenger is always shot for posting a disagreeable criticism. Attack the idea, not the messenger.

The Church have the right as well
to counter any external derailments influences that would try to
sway it's subjects to follow what they wish and by no means akin to the church
rights for as mentioned they are the instigator of salvation.

The Church not only have rights...are you kidding me? The operative word for The Church is POWER. Secondly, if the Church is worried that the path to salvation will sometimes be met by "external influences" (aka ideas that don't agree with their dogma), then they're essentially saying that their flock can't be trusted to think on their own; thus consigning their flock to intellectual juvenility. It's a marketplace of ideas, in case you haven't noticed. And an idea's strength of reason and real-world test results should determine if we accept or reject it.

Similarly, do we have to censure the policemen
just because they are enforcing the right law.
I guess not.

I hope you do not mean it's your job to be the Catholic religious police. That would put Catholicism on the path to a Taliban-style religious society. Would you want that?

[jaypol81]

hala sad noh?...

[<SMILE>]

By the church's stance, you mean the Vatican's stance on condoms, right? Look, there are issues where you have to be resolute with your stance and there are issues where you reflect on the dogmas you've been indoctrinated with. Avoiding condoms is essential for the salvation of the soul? That dogma itself is questionable (if not laughable) amongst a large number of Catholics.

Now I know too much reactions were made because of this condom thingy,
actually it's not that narrow, simply it defies procreation one of the wishes of GOD.
I rather call it faith than dogma as what you want to imply.


And then to claim that an institution knows the wishes of GOD is a huge claim...one that suggests arrogance rather than responsibility. It's giving oneself power to control people because it's saying "Do as I say because I know what God wants and He told me so, personally."

Be informed that the faith was not here just yesterday and everything was based on the followed scriptures
furnished thousands of years ago, simply the vatican is just a follower,the keeper, and at the same time
the one responsible to flourish the faith, where is the arrogance in that?


The statement is a bit incoherent (no offense), but I guess you mean we're entitled to our own opinion. I hope you do mean that. In a civilized discussion, ideas/actions can be criticized. But what tends to happen here is that the messenger is always shot for posting a disagreeable criticism. Attack the idea, not the messenger.

Yup, that is why we have the so called sinners as per the already followed and established faith,
we are of course responsible with our actions, we are free to do anything, to heed or not to heed
with the teachings of the church, but of course we are also responsible of the outcome of
our actions as well, is this coherent enough for you?

The Church not only have rights...are you kidding me? The operative word for The Church is POWER. Secondly, if the Church is worried that the path to salvation will sometimes be met by "external influences" (aka ideas that don't agree with their dogma), then they're essentially saying that their flock can't be trusted to think on their own; thus consigning their flock to intellectual juvenility. It's a marketplace of ideas, in case you haven't noticed. And an idea's strength of reason and real-world test results should determine if we accept or reject it.

The salvation of the soul for the faithful is not a joke,
and do you think now that the 1billion member is not well entrenched because you thinks so,wrong,
it's not ideas but the forceful nature of the laws of the land that should be followed as well,
laws that is antagonizing with the established faith, in that sense how would the church would behave,
if it's members are being coersed to believe otherwise?

I hope you do not mean it's your job to be the Catholic religious police. That would put Catholicism on the path to a Taliban-style religious society. Would you want that?

Nope we do not have the Jihad thingy,
just dump that BS.

.............................

[SioDenz]

Basta ang naka Program sa Huna huna is to Defend, Wa na jud moy mahims

[Bears Grill]

Now I know too much reactions were made because of this condom thingy,
actually it's not that narrow, simply it defies procreation one of the wishes of GOD.
I rather call it faith than dogma as what you want to imply.

The immorality of using condoms is a Faith position and not a dogma? Seriously? Anyway, maybe you have a point there since following a dogma requires Faith as well.

Be informed that the faith was not here just yesterday and everything was based on the followed scriptures
furnished thousands of years ago, simply the vatican is just a follower,the keeper, and at the same time
the one responsible to flourish the faith, where is the arrogance in that?

Here's my point. It does take some arrogance to claim that such and such manuscripts are the "words of God", because one is making a huge claim on zero evidence. It does take some arrogance for some institution to claim that "salvation" can only be had within the confines of their registry offices.

Yup, that is why we have the so called sinners as per the already followed and established faith,
we are of course responsible with our actions, we are free to do anything, to heed or not to heed
with the teachings of the church, but of course we are also responsible of the outcome of
our actions as well, is this coherent enough for you?

Thanks. Much better sentence construction this time. For a while there, I thought you may be under the influence of drugs or something.

To respond to your comment, yes, we are all responsible for our own actions regardless whether we're Catholics or not.

The salvation of the soul for the faithful is not a joke,
and do you think now that the 1billion member is not well entrenched because you thinks so,wrong,
it's not ideas but the forceful nature of the laws of the land that should be followed as well,
laws that is antagonizing with the established faith, in that sense how would the church would behave,
if it's members are being coersed to believe otherwise?

Interesting how you don't spell out what these "laws that is antagonizing with the established faith" are. I guess you mean the RH Bill. First of all, I don't think RH Bill "coerces" Catholics to follow it. It just provides an option, for example, to a poor family that's already struggling with 12 children and says to them: "Maybe you would want to re-consider having that 13th child. If you're scared of getting pregnant again, we have something for you and it's not gonna cost you. But if you think it's a sin, then hey...no one's gonna stop you. Knock yourself out."

Yes, "Salvation of the soul" is not a joke...but earthly life is not a joke as well. Earthly life is the only life we know about that's real. Life-after-death is a coin-toss. Nobody knows for sure if there is or there isn't. It would be much better if we make lives better in this world. If doing everything to make this world a happier and better place, in spite of being a non-Catholic, should earn one God's displeasure, then something is definitely wrong with our conception of a Perfect Being.

Nope we do not have the Jihad thingy,
just dump that BS.

Jihad and Taliban's Religious Police are two different "thingies". Jihad is the Islamic concept of "struggle" ("holy war") while a Religious Police (like in some Islamic countries) is one who goes around whipping women who fail to wear the prescribed dress or hauling people to jail if he catches them not praying on the prescribed hour, etc.

Catholicism used to have these things during the Middle Ages. The concept "holy war" perhaps got its popular start in the Crusades. "Religious police" (aka Inquisitors) did brutal things in those extremely pious period of Christianity. Remember? So cut the crap about this "we do not have the Jihad thingy," Of course you did. But not so much now. Now, you have a de-fanged version of Catholicism...but it still packs a bite with its power and influence.

[<SMILE>]

Bears Grill;15069765]The immorality of using condoms is a Faith position and not a dogma? Seriously? Anyway, maybe you have a point there since following a dogma requires Faith as well.

The difference in perspective I guess makes you think otherwise
for as I could see you do not have the belief, and the discussion will drag on somewhere
where theist and atheist collides and is way out off topic.

Here's my point. It does take some arrogance to claim that such and such manuscripts are the "words of God", because one is making a huge claim on zero evidence. It does take some arrogance for some institution to claim that "salvation" can only be had within the confines of their registry offices.

I wish to reiterate, where is the arrogance of someone who is just following,
is there any pride involved? it's just pure faith that's all.

Thanks. Much better sentence construction this time. For a while there, I thought you may be under the influence of drugs or something.

hahahah,
hitting below the belt
what a poor shot, are you mad or something?
it's not healthy I will consider this as my last reply,
I don't condone nasty behaviors, Sorry.


To respond to your comment, yes, we are all responsible for our own actions regardless whether we're Catholics or not.

Then making lewd comments makes you a very nice person,
hahahahah, funny.


Interesting how you don't spell out what these "laws that is antagonizing with the established faith" are. I guess you mean the RH Bill. First of all, I don't think RH Bill "coerces" Catholics to follow it. It just provides an option, for example, to a poor family that's already struggling with 12 children and says to them: "Maybe you would want to re-consider having that 13th child. If you're scared of getting pregnant again, we have something for you and it's not gonna cost you. But if you think it's a sin, then hey...no one's gonna stop you. Knock yourself out."

Nope, the death penalty as well,
the act of taking a life.
Then if you could not raise a family better not do that thingy
and produce some babies that you could not afford to support,
it will make you a very irresponsible person, the reason of the demise
poor judgement and poor outlook and preparation about life.


Yes, "Salvation of the soul" is not a joke...but earthly life is not a joke as well. Earthly life is the only life we know about that's real. Life-after-death is a coin-toss. Nobody knows for sure if there is or there isn't. It would be much better if we make lives better in this world. If doing everything to make this world a happier and better place, in spite of being a non-Catholic, should earn one God's displeasure, then something is definitely wrong with our conception of a Perfect Being.

An atheist (or sort of) like you would never know how important it is,
and the logical thing is nobody lives forever.


Jihad and Taliban's Religious Police are two different "thingies". Jihad is the Islamic concept of "struggle" ("holy war") while a Religious Police (like in some Islamic countries) is one who goes around whipping women who fail to wear the prescribed dress or hauling people to jail if he catches them not praying on the prescribed hour, etc.

Now you wish to equate christianism with islam,
better read some books.

Catholicism used to have these things during the Middle Ages. The concept "holy war" perhaps got its popular start in the Crusades. "Religious police" (aka Inquisitors) did brutal things in those extremely pious period of Christianity. Remember? So cut the crap about this "we do not have the Jihad thingy," Of course you did. But not so much now. Now, you have a de-fanged version of Catholicism...but it still packs a bite with its power and influence.

The quran will not agree with you
as well as the bible,
quite funny defanged version who said that.?

[newbie.86]

I'm not blaming the Vatican for Vietnam. The reason why I've prefaced my statements with "It's been said..." and "They say..." is because I've lifted them up from conversations that went on from James Carroll's Constantine's Sword, if you'd like to know.

YOU DID BLAME THE VATICAN for not condemning napalm. And How dare you criticize the Vatican when you are even silent about the CRIMINAL ACTS of the AMERICANS in Vietnam themselves.

Your statement reeks of hypocrisy.

Ok, you have lifted your statements against Mr James Caroll's book -- a Roman Catholic dissident (protester) which makes him Protestant actually, like you.

And even if I stated it as my opinion, I would only be criticizing Vatican's reactions to certain issues which reflects a lot on their priorities. I mean, come on. Why should one not point it out when the Vatican condemns trifle things like condoms and secularism, while remaining silent on more serious things like the Holocaust Final Solution or Napalm or even the genocide in Rwanda.

Yes, the Vatican condemned A LOT of things --- condoms, the HOLOCAUST FINAL SOLUTION, Secularism, slavery, genocides, abortion (the SILENT HOLOCAUST).

And yes, the Pope did saved 80,000 Jews INSIDE Vatican City while Hitler's troops are at the door of St Peter' Basilica.
NOT even America, the most powerful nation on earth saved as many Jews as the Pope in his tiny enclave.
Albert Einstein, Golda Meir (Israeli Prime minister during WWII and the Chief Rabbi of Rome THANKED the Pope for saving the Jews, even converting to Catholicism afterwards.

For your knowledge, you read REAL history and not pulp fiction.

the Tragic Heroism of the Pope

Heck, they even ex-communicated a nun who assisted in an abortion to save the pregnant woman's life. Is one not allowed to criticize that?

OK. So there you go. You condone a nun who participated in COLD BLOODED MURDER of an innocent human being while you whine about holocaust.

Fine logic you have, wise one.

It seems that the Vatican is blind to atrocities until they see condoms.

You seem, but unfortunately YOU ARE WRONG on this one.

The Vatican's knee jerk reaction to condoms is funny because it is. The joke is on the Vatican, not the Vietnamese nor the millions Africans dying of AIDS because of the dogma that says wearing condoms is immoral. If they're deaf to serious pleas, heck, why not try ridiculing their actions?
I am criticizing an institution's actions (or lack thereof) that deserves criticizing. That's all there is to it.

You have the right to criticize and its within your privilege.

But PROMOTING MISINFORMATION by somebody

who proclaims himself
as the "HARBINGER OF JUSTICE" and "SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS"
is an unforgivable crime.

- - - Updated - - -

Basta ang naka Program sa Huna huna is to Defend, Wa na jud moy mahims

Ok bro, yes, we have to defend truth against Jack Chick fanatics.

Daghan rba na cla diri.

[newbie.86]

@ BearsGrill:

Are you Catholic bro?

If you are and so hates this Catholic-majority society, there are a lot of Catholics from Muslim countries who would appreciate swapping their places with you. Just a thought.

I would also advise you to renounce your baptism and your Catholicism if you are truly at odds with Church doctrine.
This is the greatest WORK OF MERCY you could ever do for yourself, rather than staying in the HYPOCRISY of calling yourself Catholic when you are actually not, but a PROTESTER (ie Protestant.)

[THE KID]